GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

[JerricaBenton]

I hope so!

 

[Alyce]

I think it will depend on length of Judge's summing up. My guess is Jury out late afternoon and verdicts tomorrow AM. Although would not be complaining if they gave verdicts today.
Hoping for real justice for Sadie x

 

[Tortoise]

Details:Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 10:48
Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 11:08
Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 12:15 - 11:58

 

[Alyce]

Found some twitter feed


Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 3h3 hours ago

34 y/o Sarah Williams, Treborth Road, Blacon and 56 y/o Katrina Walsh, Hare Lane, Guilden Sutton both deny murder.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 2h2 hours ago

Slightly early start (10am) to proceedings today. It's thought summing up from judge will take around a day.

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 2h2 hours ago

Not underway yet at Preston Crown Court despite expected early start.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 1h1 hour ago

Judge now telling jury the difference between his job and theirs. Telling them to consider all evidence



Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 1h1 hour ago

Judge now urging jury to look at evidence objectively. Explaining he wants them to leave emotions towards the case out.


Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 51m51 minutes ago

Judge has given jury six questions to consider to help them reach their verdicts.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 45m45 minutes ago

Judge telling jury difference between murder and manslaughter


Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 32m32 minutes ago

Judge says there is no direct evidence of a murder eg. a witness, so pros have to rely on circumstantial evidence.


Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 25m25 minutes ago

Judge urging caution over evidence relating to identification that is disputed.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 22m22 minutes ago

34 y/o Sarah Williams of Treborth Road, Blacon and 56 y/o Katrina Walsh, Guilden Sutton both deny murder.

Judge sends jury for a break.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 46s46 seconds ago

We're back in court. Judge now reviewing evidence.

 

[Alyce]

Judge urging caution over evidence relating to identification that is disputed.

Is this a bit worrying or am I reading it wrongly ?

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 27s27 seconds ago

Judge: "prosecution say Katrina Walsh is a willing and enthusiastic henchman.

 

[Tortoise]

Is this a bit worrying or am I reading it wrongly ?

I think he could be criticised if he left that out of his directions, he doesn't want to leave a hole for an appeal, so he has to say what the defence argument is.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 1m1 minute ago

Judge now says he'll move on to evidence more directly related to the case. Has been going through background stories over past few years.

 

[Tortoise]

just noticed one from earlier that's not in your post Alyce, so adding it in

Judge now explaining how someone not necessarily at the scene doing actual killing can still be found guilty of murder.




https://twitter.com/philmunnsradio

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 1m1 minute ago

Judge reviewing a letter sent by SW, received by Sadie Hartley in Sept 2015.

 

[Alyce]

just noticed one from earlier that's not in your post Alyce, so adding it in

Judge now explaining how someone not necessarily at the scene doing actual killing can still be found guilty of murder.




https://twitter.com/philmunnsradio

I like that one - sounds like he is going to get them on the right track to find Walsh guilty of murder.

 

[Alyce]

Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 1m1 minute ago

Judge reviews evidence saying SW would ask colleagues to look for Ian Johnson in the car park of Chill Factore if she thought he was there.

 

[Tortoise]

Something that I'm puzzling over. What do you think?

If the jury convicts them both of murder, and SW is obviously saying she wasn't there and KW might have done it, how does the judge know whether the jury thinks KW might have killed Sadie? How does he say to SW when he sentences her, you stabbed Sadie and you are obviously more dangerous etc?

 

[Alyce]

Just thinking about Walsh's diary.
We have not heard any evidence of this, but I do wonder if there are any entries from after the murder ?
Remembering how excited she was at just the thought of being involved in a murder, I would think she might want to add some notes afterwards, noting how well everything had gone.

Perhaps, if she did, then these are the pages that were torn out.

 

[Alyce]

Something that I'm puzzling over. What do you think?

If the jury convicts them both of murder, and SW is obviously saying she wasn't there and KW might have done it, how does the judge know whether the jury thinks KW might have killed Sadie? How does he say to SW when he sentences her, you stabbed Sadie and you are obviously more dangerous etc?

Perhaps, in the guidelines he has given them, he is asking them to clarify their verdict on Walsh and, if they find her guilty of murder, they have to explain that their decision is based on her assistance before, during and after the murder and not on her actual presence at the murder itself.

Otherwise, I agree. How does he know which way to sentence Williams.