GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #901
Thanks for this kmh.

How do you think she will have dealt with being imprisoned since the crime? Or are you saying that is down to regret for her involvement- whatever the extent of it?
 
  • #902
Phil Munns ‏@philmunnsradio 58s58 seconds ago

Judge highlights the fact that KW chose not to give evidence. Says it is her right to not speak in court.

So he doesn't add that any inferences are entitled to be drawn from that? (Or we just don't know because the reporting is so sketchy)
 
  • #903
I think that's what she's referring to when she says SW said if I don't write it down it didn't happen.

I do tend to think it was her that contacted her ex Kevin and not SW. Something just tells me that he agreed to say that to help her.

I agree that his evidence was sketchy, he seemed to be leaving inconvenient parts out, when I looked at it again last week.
 
  • #904
"Judge urging caution over evidence relating to identification that is disputed."


Originally posted by cottonweaver
Hmmm!
Is that the CCTV evidence where you can't see SW's face on the murder day?

I know that the new clothes SW had bought recently were brought up and presume these could not be matched ie. cctv images of her wearing them on murder day with the M&S clothes receipts. ( Appreciate that CCTV is B&W and that some clothes were later burnt at the stables.)

I also would have expected the police to be able to extrapolate the exact height of the person on the CCTV (seen that in other investigations) and then note SW's actual height to firm up the circumstantial evidence. ( Obviously then comparing it to KW's height too, her being significantly shorter.) Doesn't prove anything but firms up the circumstantial.

Shame the reporter hasn't reported the judge's questions.... or is that standard?
 
  • #905
Looked to see if there was anything to add here, from yesterday's news, so still summing up this morning?


Summing up the evidence Lord Justice Turner told the jury: “Both these defendants have denied their guilt on the basis Sarah Williams never did it and Katrina Walsh on the basis she thought she was involved in an elaborate game rather than something which would end in violence. Ultimately you will have to decide where the truth lies.”.....


Lord Justice Turner told the jury in the trial, today entering its seventh week at Preston Crown Court, he will complete his summing up on Tuesday morning and it will then be sent out to consider its verdicts.....

But sex text and explicit photos continued to be exchanged between Mr Johnston and Williams right up to just days before the murder, the court heard.


http://www.rossendalefreepress.co.uk/news/jury-set-retire-tomorrow-consider-11752719


and from SW's Defence summing up ( last week), a new quote

Mr Cole said that Ms Walsh had “prejudiced” the case of his client by not allowing them to address “unanswered questions” such as whether somebody else was involved in the murder - an “unknown accomplice”.
http://www.rossendalefreepress.co.uk/news/murder-accuseds-alleged-motive-does-11738894

Same local paper, but more on flower delivery day, SW's version. We haven't heard this level of detail before and likely won't get any verdict news today - so something to read in the interim:
All KW's idea......
"Giving evidence at Preston Crown Court, Ms Williams said they had popped into Tesco to use the toilet and that Ms Walsh then asked if she had any money on her.

She said: “I paid for the flowers and we walked out and I asked who are these for. There was a little giggle and she said ‘I have got an idea’.

“At some point I said ‘what idea’ and she asked me what Sadie looked like.

“She said Sadie was renting a house in Helmshore near Ian. I asked her how she knew and she laughed, and in an expression she uses she said ‘I have my ways’.

“There was more giggling and she said she wanted to know what she looked like. At the time it was a bit silly.”

Ms Walsh went on to knock on the door of the £500,000 property and deliver the flowers with Ms Williams nearby out of sight - but not hiding, she told the court.........
Prosecutor John McDermott QC said: “You thought it was a giggly and girly thing to do to the partner of the man you were throwing yourself at the time?”

Ms Williams replied: “It was silly, it was ridiculous.”

Mr McDermott said: “What is ridiculous is this story.”

Ms Williams said: “No, it’s not.”

Mr McDermott said: “It was pretty creepy what you were giggling about.”

The defendant said: “It was certainly not intended by me to be creepy. Looking back, it was a stupid thing to allow to have happened.”

Ms Williams reiterated she had no desire to hurt Ms Hartley and added she had no particular interest in her either."

http://www.rossendalefreepress.co.uk/news/flower-delivery-macabre-test-run-11721631
 
  • #906
Sadie-Hartley-7.jpg


Nice pic of Sadie on some kind of exotic holiday.
Been wondering for a while how anyone even a person like SW gets themselves so worked up for such a frenzied attack on a virtual stranger.
( I've always though she must have fantasised about the violence, in conversation with Kit, regardless of whether Kit just listened or got into it too.)

Anyway that's by the by, looking at this of Sadie with her full safari kit on it strikes me that maybe SW so resented Sadie ( unlike David's wife) because of what she represented:

Career success, proper business-woman, Sadie can buy her own holidays, she doesn't need a David Hardwick, the "no-strings" personal financial independence that SW could never have and in SW's twisted head -"control". ( ie. "control" over IJ through £, as she has previously said, set aside the obvious hypocrisy that she had had her own sugar daddy for so many years.)
I think there was material & personal envy there, not just envy re Ian Johnston.

( We know she's a greedy, material girl with all her buy-to lets, multiple foreign hols, monthly standing order top-ups from David, well IMO, plus she had a very high regard for her own success, selling holidays!)
 
  • #907
So he doesn't add that any inferences are entitled to be drawn from that? (Or we just don't know because the reporting is so sketchy)

I wondered about that as well, was expecting him to add the second part. But, the twitter coverage was quite brief, so hopefully Judge did say more.




ETA - on reflection, it is rather strange that the reporter did not mention the Judge talking about inferences, it is a very important point.
 
  • #908
Kit looks a mess, skinny and haggered, totally aged and broken her. Sarah on the other hand...brazen and fresh faced

Why does this not surprise me? smh.
 
  • #909
I know that the new clothes SW had bought recently were brought up and presume these could not be matched ie. cctv images of her wearing them on murder day with the M&S clothes receipts. ( Appreciate that CCTV is B&W and that some clothes were later burnt at the stables.)

I also would have expected the police to be able to extrapolate the exact height of the person on the CCTV (seen that in other investigations) and then note SW's actual height to firm up the circumstantial evidence. ( Obviously then comparing it to KW's height too, her being significantly shorter.) Doesn't prove anything but firms up the circumstantial.

Shame the reporter hasn't reported the judge's questions.... or is that standard?

good point re the height. It would have seemed an obvious thing to do, given the disparity in Williams and Walsh's heights.

Re the reporting, we may have missed the Judge's questions with the lack of reporting on this case. Am hoping for some indepth articles after the verdicts.
 
  • #910
Sadie-Hartley-7.jpg


Nice pic of Sadie on some kind of exotic holiday.
Been wondering for a while how anyone even a person like SW gets themselves so worked up for such a frenzied attack on a virtual stranger.
( I've always though she must have fantasised about the violence, in conversation with Kit, regardless of whether Kit just listened or got into it too.)

Anyway that's by the by, looking at this of Sadie with her full safari kit on it strikes me that maybe SW so resented Sadie ( unlike David's wife) because of what she represented:

Career success, proper business-woman, Sadie can buy her own holidays, she doesn't need a David Hardwick, the "no-strings" personal financial independence that SW could never have and in SW's twisted head -"control". ( ie. "control" over IJ through £, as she has previously said, set aside the obvious hypocrisy that she had had her own sugar daddy for so many years.)
I think there was material & personal envy there, not just envy re Ian Johnston.

( We know she's a greedy, material girl with all her buy-to lets, multiple foreign hols, monthly standing order top-ups from David, well IMO, plus she had a very high regard for her own success, selling holidays!)

I agree, there was jealousy on a whole range of levels and am sure Williams was thinking, if only I had that kind of money, of my own, then IJ would want to be with me ( and the cynic in me says she was probably correct in that assumption ).
There was also that comment about IJs mother dying ( December 2015 ) and Williams saying that now IJ would inherit money and then he could be free of Sadie and be with her.

As an aside - I do feel extremely sorry for DHs wife. It is one thing for your husband to be having a 17 year affair with a much younger female, which she maybe resigned herself to, provided he was discreet ......but quite another to have your personal life splashed all over the media and revealed in great detail to everyone.
 
  • #911
Nothing we dont know already, but I will keep an eye on this twitter feed as they may give us a link to whichever reporter is in court today


Dee106.3 ‏@Dee1063 3h3 hours ago

NEWS: Jury expected to be sent out to consider verdicts this morning in murder trial of two #Chester women.
 
  • #912
Dee106.3 ‏@Dee1063 7m7 minutes ago

Dee106.3 Retweeted Anastasia Bates

NEWS: Jury expected to be sent out today. Get the latest at 11am from @AnastasiaKBates at Preston Crown Court.
 
  • #913
Today's court listing


Preston 5
T20167035
T20167037

katrina walsh
sarah williams
Details: - No Information To Display -


( just thinking back to India's trial, when the Jury went out, the same wording was shown on the Law Pages )
 
  • #914
Still summing up


Preston 5
T20167035
T20167037

katrina walsh
sarah williams

Details: - No Information To Display -

Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 10:38
 
  • #915
Here we go ........


Anastasia Bates ‏@AnastasiaKBates 10m10 minutes ago Preston, England

The jury have been sent out to consider their verdicts in the Sadie Hartley murder trial. Sarah Williams and Katrina Walsh deny murder.
 
  • #916
Several journos tweeting and Sadie is trending on twitter - which makes me sad.

Mel Barham ‏@MelBarhamITV 14m14 minutes ago

Jury in Sadie Hartley murder trial has been sent out to consider its verdict @GranadaReports



Dave Guest ‏@mrdaveguest 16m16 minutes ago Preston, England

Sarah Williams had an affair with Sadie Hartley's partner and is alleged to have killed her to win him back



Patrick Hurst ‏@paddyhurst 15m15 minutes ago

Jury retires to consider verdicts in trial of Sarah Williams and Kitt Walsh, accused of the murder of businesswoman Sadie Hartley.
 
  • #917
Now the nervous wait! Thanks for all the updates.
 
  • #918
Jury out in #sadiehartleytrial They were told by judge to forget all thoughts of majority and aim for unanimous verdict

Walsh had head down throughout short hearing. Williams just looked directly forward with no emotion on her face


​https://twitter.com/AbanQuaynorLT
 
  • #919
[h=1]Eleven* jurors have retired to consider their verdicts in the trial of two women accused of murdering a Lancashire business woman.[/h]
[FONT=&quot]The two defendants are alleged to have plotted Miss Hartley’s death for 17 months before she was zapped with a stun gun and fatally stabbed. The prosecution allege that Sarah Williams wielded the knife during the attack because wanted to ‘get rid’ of her love rival - they also claim Willams received help from Katrina Walsh every step of the way leading up to the crime. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sadie Hartley suffered 51 injuries in total.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sarah Williams denies any knowledge of a plot to kill the mum-of-two, which is detailed in diaries written by Katrina Walsh. Sarah suggests she must have been set up by her co-accused. Katrina Walsh chose not to give evidence during the trial but barristers speaking on her behalf defend the diary entries as fantasies, which were never intended to be carried out.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

<modsnip>
http://www.2br.co.uk/news/local-new...r-verdicts-in-the-sadie-hartley-murder-trial/
[/FONT]
 
  • #920
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
116
Guests online
1,335
Total visitors
1,451

Forum statistics

Threads
632,483
Messages
18,627,451
Members
243,167
Latest member
s.a
Back
Top