UK - Sara Sharif, 10, found murdered in house, Surrey, Aug 2023 *POIs ARREST* #2

[Dotta]

Emma Tustin beat Arthur to death when the dad was out. Although the dad had no history of beating anyone before he met Emma, whereas we are told Urfan Sharif does have a violent history.

True

But Sara's injuries remind me of poor LoganM's ones.
He was kicked and punched by his unhinged stepbrother (who practised martial arts) and equally violent stepfather.
Also broken collarbone and ribs if I remember correctly.

But, of course, I agree that stepm. might have also used violence.

Of one thing I'm certain though -

Sara died in agony.

Both physical and mental.
Deserted by the whole world.
Feeling lonely and terrified.

In a house and neighbourhood full of people.

It doesn't bode well for other children in crisis.



JMO

 

[Dotta]

True

But Sara's injuries remind me of poor LoganM's ones.
He was kicked and punched by his unhinged stepbrother (who practised martial arts) and equally violent stepfather.
Also broken collarbone and ribs if I remember correctly.

But, of course, I agree that stepm. might have also used violence.

Of one thing I'm certain though -

Sara died in agony.

Both physical and mental.
Deserted by the whole world.
Feeling lonely and terrified.

In a house and neighbourhood full of people.

It doesn't bode well for other children in crisis.



JMO

To add

This is a world wide problem.
In my country also

Remember
When you see a child who seems to be abused - ACT!!!!!!

Call Police, Social Services, whatever authorities.

Never give up.
Never turn a blind eye.
Never shrug it off as "It is not my problem".

You/I/we can save a child one day.

"Whoever saves one life,
Saves the world entire."

JMO

 

[PKFS]

To add

This is a world wide problem.
In my country also

Remember
When you see a child who seems to be abused - ACT!!!!!!

Call Police, Social Services, whatever authorities.

Never give up.
Never turn a blind eye.
Never shrug it off as "It is not my problem".

You/I/we can save a child one day.

"Whoever saves one life,
Saves the world entire."

JMO

I agree, Dotta! 100%!!!

There must have been people who suspected Sara was getting hurt! There must have been passer-by's, neighbours, friends, relatives, shop attendants, anyone!!!

We should prevent a child from growing up in pain, violence or even (as in Sara's and so many other children's case) death.We are all responsible for the wellbeing of children around us and across the world.

The amount of pain that Sara's body experienced is more than any of us adults can bear without medication, painkillers and treatment. And as for her mental torture - I cannot begin to comprehend that the very sanctuary with loved ones was so torturous for her.
And the fact that this was referred to as an "incident" just boils my blood! JMO

 

[PKFS]

On the assumption that most establishments followed the letter of the law, I don't understand how the law and processes failed Sara...

For example -

• Education Law & Legal Guardianship: Authority given to stepparent/partner of parent for a child. Any major changes to education (such as homeschooling) of a child residing with the stepparent/partner has to be approved by both biological parents. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling - reasons for homeschooling has to be reviewed. Initial setup of how feasible homeschooling would be for the child (from education authority). If this was done, surely the authorities would know that there is no chance in hell that Sara would be home schooled. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling: Regular assessment of Educational authorities that homeschooling is adequately supporting the child's learning (online work reviews?). Is this not in place already? Surely, homeschooling cant be a blackbox?!
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: If a child is prevented from seeing one of the parents by the other parent, there must be a easier, faster way to deal with this - had this happened, maybe Olga would have noticed the abuse and save Sara's life Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: Any travel overseas MUST have proof of approval from both parents! This is also for prevention of cases of child kidnap, marrying children underage abroad. Is this not in place already?

I am not very familiar with the details of the law in these areas,but am interested to know where even the system failed Sara...

(JMO)

 

[shinimeggie]

On the assumption that most establishments followed the letter of the law, I don't understand how the law and processes failed Sara...

For example -

• Education Law & Legal Guardianship: Authority given to stepparent/partner of parent for a child. Any major changes to education (such as homeschooling) of a child residing with the stepparent/partner has to be approved by both biological parents. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling - reasons for homeschooling has to be reviewed. Initial setup of how feasible homeschooling would be for the child (from education authority). If this was done, surely the authorities would know that there is no chance in hell that Sara would be home schooled. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling: Regular assessment of Educational authorities that homeschooling is adequately supporting the child's learning (online work reviews?). Is this not in place already? Surely, homeschooling cant be a blackbox?!
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: If a child is prevented from seeing one of the parents by the other parent, there must be a easier, faster way to deal with this - had this happened, maybe Olga would have noticed the abuse and save Sara's life Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: Any travel overseas MUST have proof of approval from both parents! This is also for prevention of cases of child kidnap, marrying children underage abroad. Is this not in place already?

I am not very familiar with the details of the law in these areas,but am interested to know where even the system failed Sara...

(JMO)

That's all well and good...if the other parent wants to be involved, is still alive, and engaged without their own mental/physical health or addiction issues, and doesn't have their own agenda for agreeing or disagreeing to something.

I'm not saying that's the case with anyone in this case at all, but it's all very simple on paper, when really, this just wouldn't work. It's just impossible.

The only people to blame here are the people who did this awful deed. Can the 'system' be improved? Always. But is it why she was tortured and killed? No.

 

[katydid23]

True

But Sara's injuries remind me of poor LoganM's ones.
He was kicked and punched by his unhinged stepbrother (who practised martial arts) and equally violent stepfather.
Also broken collarbone and ribs if I remember correctly.

Yes, Sara's case reminds me of poor Logan too. The various injuries, some older than others, are just heartbreaking to imagine.

And the excuse that he fell down the stairs---very common excuse in these horrid abuse cases.

But, of course, I agree that stepm. might have also used violence.

I think all 3 of the defendants abused her, perhaps all in different ways. They all deserve the murder charges, no matter who dealt the final blows. IMO

Of one thing I'm certain though -

Sara died in agony.

Both physical and mental.
Deserted by the whole world.
Feeling lonely and terrified.

In a house and neighbourhood full of people.

It doesn't bode well for other children in crisis.



JMO

No, it doesn't bode well for other children in crisis.

 

[Alyce]

Yes, Sara's case reminds me of poor Logan too. The various injuries, some older than others, are just heartbreaking to imagine.

And the excuse that he fell down the stairs---very common excuse in these horrid abuse cases.

I think all 3 of the defendants abused her, perhaps all in different ways. They all deserve the murder charges, no matter who dealt the final blows. IMO

No, it doesn't bode well for other children in crisis.

This absolutely. Whether they were active in the abuse or just stood by and let it happen, they are all equally complicit.


MOO of course

 

[Dotta]

This absolutely. Whether they were active in the abuse or just stood by and let it happen, they are all equally complicit.


MOO of course

Absolutely!

Logan's mother got a lengthy sentence - although I don't remember how long.

She even started appellation to make it shorter!
What a nerve!

 

[Dotta]

That's all well and good...if the other parent wants to be involved, is still alive, and engaged without their own mental/physical health or addiction issues, and doesn't have their own agenda for agreeing or disagreeing to something.

I'm not saying that's the case with anyone in this case at all, but it's all very simple on paper, when really, this just wouldn't work. It's just impossible.

The only people to blame here are the people who did this awful deed. Can the 'system' be improved? Always. But is it why she was tortured and killed? No.

Situation of Olga who is bioMum of Sara and her brother was thoroughly explained in both threads.

 

[AliceInPain]

To add

This is a world wide problem.
In my country also

Remember
When you see a child who seems to be abused - ACT!!!!!!

Call Police, Social Services, whatever authorities.

Never give up.
Never turn a blind eye.
Never shrug it off as "It is not my problem".

You/I/we can save a child one day.

"Whoever saves one life,
Saves the world entire."

JMO

I 100% agree. But, I used to take a friend's little boy to nursery, and one morning he had a split lip and bruising on his face. He was unusually quiet and when I asked what happened he eventually said (mumbled) he ran into a door. Obviously not. My friend had been acting really weird and aggressively since she got a new boyfriend, her son had gotten more and more quiet, stopped smiling and didn't want to leave when he'd been to my house.
SO... I called social services to tell them about him and asked them to check up on his homelife or whatever I said. They said I couldn't report it because I wasn't a relative!!!!!!!! Not long after that my (former) friend went on to kill someone (completely innocent). Her son was adopted out and she was locked up in a mental health facility for a couple of years, let out and killed again.
This was in the UK ca 15 years ago. Makes me wonder how many outside people do try to report child abuse but social services choose to ignore it... It should never happen.

 

[Dotta]

I 100% agree. But, I used to take a friend's little boy to nursery, and one morning he had a split lip and bruising on his face. He was unusually quiet and when I asked what happened he eventually said (mumbled) he ran into a door. Obviously not. My friend had been acting really weird and aggressively since she got a new boyfriend, her son had gotten more and more quiet, stopped smiling and didn't want to leave when he'd been to my house.
SO... I called social services to tell them about him and asked them to check up on his homelife or whatever I said. They said I couldn't report it because I wasn't a relative!!!!!!!! Not long after that my (former) friend went on to kill someone (completely innocent). Her son was adopted out and she was locked up in a mental health facility for a couple of years, let out and killed again.
This was in the UK ca 15 years ago. Makes me wonder how many outside people do try to report child abuse but social services choose to ignore it... It should never happen.

How terrible!
You were lucky this "friend" didn't attack you

Where I live, anybody can report to Police when abuse is suspected.
The family then gets so called "Blue Card".

The "Blue Card" is an official document completed by a police officer in the event of domestic violence and is used to document facts related to violence in a given family, to assess the risk of further violence, and as evidence in court cases.

 

[tinho]

A few years ago, my friend had a rather loud verbal argument with her teenage daughter. It was early morning, before school. That afternoon she received a phone call from social services to say someone had reported the incident. All three of her children had been interviewed by social workers at school , whilst they were happy with the answers given by the children they still needed to come now and do a home check. This was some time ago though. I’m not sure people would still do the same today.

 

[Nikynoo]

On the assumption that most establishments followed the letter of the law, I don't understand how the law and processes failed Sara...

For example -

• Education Law & Legal Guardianship: Authority given to stepparent/partner of parent for a child. Any major changes to education (such as homeschooling) of a child residing with the stepparent/partner has to be approved by both biological parents. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling - reasons for homeschooling has to be reviewed. Initial setup of how feasible homeschooling would be for the child (from education authority). If this was done, surely the authorities would know that there is no chance in hell that Sara would be home schooled. Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Education Law Homeschooling: Regular assessment of Educational authorities that homeschooling is adequately supporting the child's learning (online work reviews?). Is this not in place already? Surely, homeschooling cant be a blackbox?!
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: If a child is prevented from seeing one of the parents by the other parent, there must be a easier, faster way to deal with this - had this happened, maybe Olga would have noticed the abuse and save Sara's life Is this not in place already?
• 
  
• Family Law & Custody: Any travel overseas MUST have proof of approval from both parents! This is also for prevention of cases of child kidnap, marrying children underage abroad. Is this not in place already?

I am not very familiar with the details of the law in these areas,but am interested to know where even the system failed Sara...

(JMO)

Sadly, most of the above is not law, it is guidance. For example moving schools, you just tick a box that the other parent gives consent. There are no checks undertaken and there is no legal penalty for ticking the consent box when you know consent has not been given.

Additionally, local authorities are woefully understaffed even to do the basic check. If Sara had been withdrawn from school on the basis that she would be homeschooled, it is unlikely that the LA would have checked in that short time frame. Unless you have the other parent or family members pushing both the school and LA to make these checks, children fall through the cracks. See also recent news reports on non attendance, the schools and LAs have their hands full and inadequate funding to deal with it. As a country, we are failing children.

 

[Nikynoo]

I 100% agree. But, I used to take a friend's little boy to nursery, and one morning he had a split lip and bruising on his face. He was unusually quiet and when I asked what happened he eventually said (mumbled) he ran into a door. Obviously not. My friend had been acting really weird and aggressively since she got a new boyfriend, her son had gotten more and more quiet, stopped smiling and didn't want to leave when he'd been to my house.
SO... I called social services to tell them about him and asked them to check up on his homelife or whatever I said. They said I couldn't report it because I wasn't a relative!!!!!!!! Not long after that my (former) friend went on to kill someone (completely innocent). Her son was adopted out and she was locked up in a mental health facility for a couple of years, let out and killed again.
This was in the UK ca 15 years ago. Makes me wonder how many outside people do try to report child abuse but social services choose to ignore it... It should never happen.

I’m so sorry you had to go through this. For what it’s worth, even reports made by grandparents are brushed off.

For anyone with concerns about the safety or well being of a child, my advice would be to bypass social services and report directly to the police.

 

[Lucy6226]

I 100% agree. But, I used to take a friend's little boy to nursery, and one morning he had a split lip and bruising on his face. He was unusually quiet and when I asked what happened he eventually said (mumbled) he ran into a door. Obviously not. My friend had been acting really weird and aggressively since she got a new boyfriend, her son had gotten more and more quiet, stopped smiling and didn't want to leave when he'd been to my house.
SO... I called social services to tell them about him and asked them to check up on his homelife or whatever I said. They said I couldn't report it because I wasn't a relative!!!!!!!! Not long after that my (former) friend went on to kill someone (completely innocent). Her son was adopted out and she was locked up in a mental health facility for a couple of years, let out and killed again.
This was in the UK ca 15 years ago. Makes me wonder how many outside people do try to report child abuse but social services choose to ignore it... It should never happen.

I’m so sorry you had to go through this. For what it’s worth, even reports made by grandparents are brushed off.

For anyone with concerns about the safety or well being of a child, my advice would be to bypass social services and report directly to the police.

Social services can and do investigate. Only the courts can remove children from parents care (and police up to a 72hr period under a Police Protection Order)...and courts require lots of evidence. So if only one person reports issues it can sometimes not meet threshold but...if family, friends, neighbours, schools, doctors all report their concerns....that's why it's so important for everyone to report concerns, however small...they can make a much bigger picture.

It will be interesting to see if any concerns were raised and how they were dealt with. Unfortunately some parents are very very adapt at deception and disguised compliance

 

[Nikynoo]

Social services can and do investigate. Only the courts can remove children from parents care (and police up to a 72hr period under a Police Protection Order)...and courts require lots of evidence. So if only one person reports issues it can sometimes not meet threshold but...if family, friends, neighbours, schools, doctors all report their concerns....that's why it's so important for everyone to report concerns, however small...they can make a much bigger picture.

It will be interesting to see if any concerns were raised and how they were dealt with. Unfortunately some parents are very very adapt at deception and disguised compliance

But who was there for Sara? Other parent alienated, no grandparents and since Easter, no school. A single call would not be enough and yet it may have prevented her death.

 

[Skigh]

Sara Sharif's siblings 'being poorly treated by Pakistani authorities'

Muhammad Sharif, Sara's grandfather, appeared in a court in the Pakistani city of Jhelum to try and get custody of Sara's five siblings, who are aged between one and 13.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The siblings of Sara Sharif are being fed stale bread and are constantly crying and upset because authorities in Pakistan are not looking after them properly, their grandfather has told MailOnline.

Muhammad Sharif appeared in a court in the Pakistani city of Jhelum to try and get custody of Sara's five siblings, who are aged between one and 13.

Speaking to MailOnline ahead of the custody hearing in Jhelum, their grandfather said: 'The children belong to our family, and we should be looking after them.

'I have been to visit them at the home where they are staying, and the conditions are not good while their health is deteriorating. They are being fed stale bread and are not being treated properly. It's not right that they are not with us.

He added: 'We can give them the love and the support that they need at this difficult time. The children are crying all the time and say that they want me to take them home.'

Mr Sharif told the court that two of the female children have special needs, while another suffers from severe asthma. The youngest is still being bottle fed.

He said: 'I want to take my grandchildren to live with me in my home in Jhelum. Two of the girls need to be in a special school and require a lot of support while my eldest grandchild is a very good cricketer, and I would like to enrol him in one of the city's best private schools.

'The authorities in Pakistan do not have the resources or the time to look after these children.'

 

[VioletLilac]

Oh dear. It sounds like they'd be better off either being with the family in Pakistan or coming back to the UK

 

[Dotta]

I'm not sure of them being with Pakistani family.
After all, we all know what happened to Sara living with a "family".

JMO

 

[VioletLilac]

Yes, I suppose they brought Urfan and the brother up to be abusers so probably unsuitable for caring for grandchildren.