UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #3

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  • #481
It would probably a CID career ending move in terms of failing to following where the evidence takes you and no invite to the Christmas party.

The Met are desperate for new recruits with direct entry to the CID. How about applying and try out your theory in practice.

Do you think whistleblowers would be punished, ie lose their job roles and pensions?

Wouldn't most of the people on this case would be older now - maybe not so worried about what the future holds, maybe financially secure enough to do what's right?

What about ethics and integrity and the possible knowledge that a murderer has gone free and maybe has done other things to other women subsequently, or maybe beforehand too? It could help with detection in other cases maybe? Fairplay to DV he cares deeply about that which seems very nice of him.
 
  • #482
Do you think whistleblowers would be punished, ie lose their job roles and pensions?

Wouldn't most of the people on this case would be older now - maybe not so worried about what the future holds, maybe financially secure enough to do what's right?

What about ethics and integrity and the possible knowledge that a murderer has gone free and maybe has done other things to other women subsequently, or maybe beforehand too? It could help with detection in other cases maybe? Fairplay to DV he cares deeply about that which seems very nice of him.
Whistleblowers to corrupt police practice need to be encouraged. They are protected by legislation from victimisation as a consequence of whistleblowing. Corruption undermines policing and therefore justice. It needs to be eradicated and command heavy prison sentences if proven. I have blown the whistle on corrupt practice, the powers that be make life difficult but its a case of doing the right thing and standing by ones principles, the correct ones.

Police officers do not lose their jobs other than being required to resign or dismissed as a consequence of being found guilty of gross misconduct or through ill health retirement/injury on duty.

It must be remembered that some decisions are management decisions, which are made by the SIO based on them having complete knowledge of the case. All decisions on major investigations are recorded in the decision log, which show the justification and considerations when making the decision. Of all the organisations the police are probably the most accountable and retain the most evidence of their actions and decisions.

There have been occasions in serious investigations where certain evidential material is known only to the most senior officers. If the whole of the investigation team knew then it could undermine the effectiveness of the investigation.

All of the officers from the original investigation would be long retired police officers now. They may have re-joined as police staff though but have probably now retired from that too. The youngest on the investigation team in 1986 would now be about 60 now.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that any element of the SLP investigation was corrupt. This must be the status quo unless there is anything to indicate otherwise.

I think you fail to understand that JC is the "only suspect" after a thorough review by a totally fresh set of detectives. The PoW theory doesn't stack up, it is deeply flawed with no evidential basis.

DV is not objective as he and the Met parted company long before his full service of thirty years. Why was this? I think it is relevant and would give a good indication of the context in which he wrote his book. This is a man who's interview technique caused one interviewee to walk out and another to clam up and not answer questions. This is a concern and indicates that his interview method was 'challenging' and seeking to make people say what he wanted them to say.
 
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  • #483
You should ask yourself how the permanent landlord didn't find this out from his drinkers, let's face it, it was big news for a long time and presumably the police visited the PoW during opening time to talk to CV?
This would mean CV kept the finding of the lost items from the PoW customers and made sure none of the staff mentioned it, IMO that's pretty difficult to do.
Unless there weren't any drinkers because the pub was closed?!
 
  • #484
Come to think, the regular landlord would have surely known from the national news? It was on all the national news including television and newspapers.

The landlord (and family) must have known SJL well as she lived so close by and frequented the pub so regularly. I wonder, when the diary etc was found, if he / they said something gossipy or salacious or sexualised about her to the incoming relief managers??
Not necessarily. I was very interested in this case at the time but the only mention I ever heard of the PoW was in AS' book, which came out nearly 2 years later. I don't recall the pub being mentioned at all, and it was a throwaway mention in AS.

Also, it's not at all clear that MH, the permanent landlord, had registered the name at all. CV comes in with his Chinese takeaway and says I've found this cheque book and diary - what do we do with lost property? And MH says, If there's a chequebook phone the bank and ask them to call their customer.
 
  • #485
Not necessarily. I was very interested in this case at the time but the only mention I ever heard of the PoW was in AS' book, which came out nearly 2 years later. I don't recall the pub being mentioned at all, and it was a throwaway mention in AS.
and @Observe_dont_Absorb @Terryb808

I note that my two requests for the source link for the information about the landlord having no idea that SJL's property was found outside his pub, have gone unanswered.

This is a trend of statements being made without any links to substantiate the claim and it is misleading.
 
  • #486
and @Observe_dont_Absorb @Terryb808

I note that my two requests for the source link for the information about the landlord having no idea that SJL's property was found outside his pub, have gone unanswered.

This is a trend of statements being made without any links to substantiate the claim and it is misleading.
Why are you in a rush to read the source link for the information about the landlord?
 
  • #487
Why are you in a rush to read the source link for the information about the landlord?
Because the PoW theory is all smoke and mirrors. It hides behind statements that have not been legitimised. If such MSM exists then we need to see it and examine it for its reliability and credibility.
 
  • #488
Because the PoW theory is all smoke and mirrors. It hides behind statements that have not been legitimised. If such MSM exists then we need to see it and examine it for its reliability and credibility.
You're impatient
 
  • #489
  • #490
  • #491
and @Observe_dont_Absorb @Terryb808

I note that my two requests for the source link for the information about the landlord having no idea that SJL's property was found outside his pub, have gone unanswered.

This is a trend of statements being made without any links to substantiate the claim and it is misleading.

I can’t help with that as I haven’t suggested that.

Some people say there was contradiction/ confusion about what day AL said SJLs stuff went missing.

But from my reading here, info in other peoples posts, it seems the permanent manager knew items had been found (did he know they were SJL’s?) before he left. And we know CV and his partner knew as they both interacted with SJL on the subject.
 
  • #492
Hardly. The link should should have been on the original post.....WS rules!

well I’m being asked for a source for something I didn’t say so can’t help, sorry
 
  • #493
Because the PoW theory is all smoke and mirrors. It hides behind statements that have not been legitimised. If such MSM exists then we need to see it and examine it for its reliability and credibility.

To what statements do you refer? I’m not sure what’s meant?
 
  • #494
  • #495
To what statements do you refer? I’m not sure what’s meant?
The source of the info stating that the permanent landlord had no awareness that SJL's property was found in the PoW until a year later. It was being touted a cause of suspicion towards CV.

I just wanted to see proof of it as a lot has been said without official sources being linked.
 
  • #496
Hey folks,

Please don't Report on posts just because you disagree with what another member has to say. Disagreeing or not liking someone else's opinion is NOT a violation of Websleuths TOS. Members can respectfully disagree with their own speculative opinion or scroll and roll without bickering or causing a fuss. Also, remember it is not necessary to respond to every single post.

Also a reminder that Verified members are not required to post links to what they state as fact, and they also are entitled to their own speculative opinion. Just don't get to arguing or challenging a VI on their input or you may find yourself on a Websleuths vacation.

We are always fortunate to have a VI posting in a case. VIs are not required to provide links to what they state as fact, but in all other respects they are held to the same rules and policies as all other members.

Please continue to Report posts that are clear violations, but please don't report to Mods hoping they will agree with your opinion and remove another person's post.

Thanks !!
 
  • #497
Whistleblowers to corrupt police practice need to be encouraged. They are protected by legislation from victimisation as a consequence of whistleblowing. Corruption undermines policing and therefore justice. It needs to be eradicated and command heavy prison sentences if proven. I have blown the whistle on corrupt practice, the powers that be make life difficult but its a case of doing the right thing and standing by ones principles, the correct ones.

Police officers do not lose their jobs other than being required to resign or dismissed as a consequence of being found guilty of gross misconduct or through ill health retirement/injury on duty.

It must be remembered that some decisions are management decisions, which are made by the SIO based on them having complete knowledge of the case. All decisions on major investigations are recorded in the decision log, which show the justification and considerations when making the decision. Of all the organisations the police are probably the most accountable and retain the most evidence of their actions and decisions.

There have been occasions in serious investigations where certain evidential material is known only to the most senior officers. If the whole of the investigation team knew then it could undermine the effectiveness of the investigation.

All of the officers from the original investigation would be long retired police officers now. They may have re-joined as police staff though but have probably now retired from that too. The youngest on the investigation team in 1986 would now be about 60 now.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that any element of the SLP investigation was corrupt. This must be the status quo unless there is anything to indicate otherwise.

I think you fail to understand that JC is the "only suspect" after a thorough review by a totally fresh set of detectives. The PoW theory doesn't stack up, it is deeply flawed with no evidential basis.

DV is not objective as he and the Met parted company long before his full service of thirty years. Why was this? I think it is relevant and would give a good indication of the context in which he wrote his book. This is a man who's interview technique caused one interviewee to walk out and another to clam up and not answer questions. This is a concern and indicates that his interview method was 'challenging' and seeking to make people say what he wanted them to say.
Perhaps if the police want to restore public faith they should understand that any review of a case should be carried out by an Independant Review Board.
Police policing themselves in unacceptable.
 
  • #498
The consensus seems to be that Suzy wasn't the last person to drive her car because of the seat position. Isn't there a possibility that Suzy did drive the car to Stevenage Road, stopped and/or parked badly voluntarily or not? If she was then incapacitated in some way, it would have made sense for an abductor to move the seat back in order to get Suzy out of the car. Just advancing an idea, probably been discussed already and realise this wouldn't pass any 'tests'....
 
  • #499
Some people say there was contradiction/ confusion about what day AL said SJLs stuff went missing.

But from my reading here, info in other peoples posts, it seems the permanent manager knew items had been found (did he know they were SJL’s?) before he left. And we know CV and his partner knew as they both interacted with SJL on the subject.
There certainly is confusion, because AL initially said the property was lost at Mossop's next door on Friday whereas the PoW said it was lost there on Sunday.

Given where CV reckons it was found it is not really possible for it to have been lost there two days earlier and walked over, nor is there mention by anyone of SJL mentioning this loss over the weekend. So it surely was lost on the Sunday. AL said that the PoW wasn't the sort of place he and SJL would ever have gone. He therefore assumed that if stuff of hers was found near Mossops it must have been lost at Mossops, which is an assumption too far by AL. He overlooks the possibility that it wasn't lost at Mossop's and that SJL went to the PoW, but without him. As she was four-timing him it is highly likely that she carefully managed where she went with whom, as not to do so risked exposure.

So the likeliest explanation for AL's account is that he honestly but mistakenly believed her stuff was lost elsewhere.

The permanent manager knew about this stuff but he did not know or register the name of the owner, which let's face it nobody else had heard until the following Tuesday. So he goes on holiday having instructed CV on the lost property procedure, including where to keep it so any of the staff will know where to look for it if claimed. It's only a year later that he finds out that the last phone call and last errand arranged by the most famous missing person/horse after Lord Lucan and Shergar were to pick up that stuff from his pub, and his temporary manager never said a word.

It's truly amazing actually. If I were to be interviewed by the police at work, in relation to something that had happened at work, I would absolutely have to disclose that to management, it would have to be reported up the line and indeed my firm would probably have a lawyer attend any interview. Was it really SOP at that pub to conceal this sort of thing? If there's been a fight at the pub and CV had witnessed that would he have kept quiet about that, too? Who does that?

It's only from MH that we think CV and KF split up "about six months later". I wonder if MH was a few months off and it was actually about a year later; as in, when KF found out CV had concealed a police interview from her? If I were interviewed by the police I would certainly tell the other half and management at work; how weird would it be to do neither? We know CV didn't tell KF because when DV spoke to him he said she knew nothing about it and was aghast that DV had spoken to her.

If anyone other than CV was at the pub why were they not spoken to? Was this obviously sloppy work the reason CV later thought he could get away with retroactively changing his statement?
 
  • #500
The consensus seems to be that Suzy wasn't the last person to drive her car because of the seat position. Isn't there a possibility that Suzy did drive the car to Stevenage Road, stopped and/or parked badly voluntarily or not? If she was then incapacitated in some way, it would have made sense for an abductor to move the seat back in order to get Suzy out of the car. Just advancing an idea, probably been discussed already and realise this wouldn't pass any 'tests'....
Good thinking, but assuming the abductor was with her in the passenger seat he then locked it after himself. Seems odd.
 
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