UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #5

[Terryb808]

Agreed. I think it's a reasonable assumption that the pub did reopen at 6 pm as usual. I can't see the stocktake needing more than a couple of hours.

Agreed, the driver would be how much the perm landlord was focused on profit.
He wanted to be away by 12.00 so the stocktake would have been completed by then.
Reopening would have been driven by how profitable lunchtime (without food) was. If not that good, reopen at 6.00pm.
DV’s scenario depends very much on the PoW reopening at 6.00pm and CV being alone at 1.00pm.
The PoW had loose links to Fulham FC & by default Stevenage Rd, CV would know this and it’s not a big jump to conclude it might have been the first place he thought of in a panic.
Depending on what DV thinks happened CV would be in a hurry to get back to the PoW. This would explain the “abandoned in a hurry “ state SJL’s car was left in.
This is just one of the many scenarios surrounding SJL’s disappearance that can be explained.
However, there’s no real evidence for any of them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Agreed. I think it's a reasonable assumption that the pub did reopen at 6 pm as usual. I can't see the stocktake needing more than a couple of hours.

If we have gleaned enough about SJL's personality, I sense that if someone answered the phone at the pub, and she wanted her possessions back immediately, she would be irritated to be told 'come after 6 when we're open'. She'd probably have very much wanted to go retrieve her possessions as quickly as possible and probably on her lunch break or when out doing a viewing, especially if she'd arranged a 6pm appointment.

 

[lee sumner]

The other key point is the night before she went missing she spoke at length to her father about a joint deal with someone injecting thousands so she could afford to buy a better house/flat. They could then use address for post. The fact they never came forward meant they had something to hide.

Dave Gardner, Crime correspondent, 7 Feb 1987, Daily Mail:

‘She was only interested in fashionable West London homes she could not afford’. [PL] ‘She told her father that a client at the estate agency had offered to put money into a property they would own jointly’.

DL adds ‘the last thing she said to me was don’t ask me about the flat I will tell you all about it when it is settled’.

[Later airbrushed/forgotten/overlooked or revised to ‘Life is for living’].
‘She talked to him about it at some length, we just wish we’d taken it more seriously’.

‘When we told the police what we had remembered they were quite angry’

SLP was selling her flat on disreali rd, but in AS book, it does not say where she was planning on living after she sold her flat. i think she was going to downsize to a smaller flat in putney or fulham.

 

[lee sumner]

The other key point is the night before she went missing she spoke at length to her father about a joint deal with someone injecting thousands so she could afford to buy a better house/flat. They could then use address for post. The fact they never came forward meant they had something to hide.

Dave Gardner, Crime correspondent, 7 Feb 1987, Daily Mail:

‘She was only interested in fashionable West London homes she could not afford’. [PL] ‘She told her father that a client at the estate agency had offered to put money into a property they would own jointly’.

DL adds ‘the last thing she said to me was don’t ask me about the flat I will tell you all about it when it is settled’.

[Later airbrushed/forgotten/overlooked or revised to ‘Life is for living’].
‘She talked to him about it at some length, we just wish we’d taken it more seriously’.

‘When we told the police what we had remembered they were quite angry’

yes, DL always tells the LIFE IS FOR LIVING story. the last thing SLP ever said to her.

 

[lee sumner]

Claudia lived in Malton, Near York in 2006. She moved to Heworth in York around 2008 as she had a new job and the shift patterns, normally 06;00 to 14:00 were difficult. In late 2008 she moved to a house on Heworth Road, where it is alleged she went missing from.

This Claudia information is not completely correct. I will correct:

Claudia's 4 mutual acquaintances who were arrested but not charged due to CPS not finding sufficient evidence were all from York area and known to her, she used to drink with them at the local pub in Heworth a few doors from her house.
The 4 refused to cooperate with the enquiry. Today, they all still live in the area of Heworth / York where she went missing.

None have moved to Cyprus. The Cyprus connection was never proven other than she had a call with a friend from Cyprus the evening around her going missing. The friend was an acquaintance of the Landlord of the pub Claudia frequented. Claudia had not been to the pub since the Sunday prior to her disappearance, this was unusual.
Claudia was last seen on CCTV walking home from work on 18th March 2009.

There is no evidence that she disappeared on her way to work on 19th march 2009-CCTV footage of her walk to work that day does not show her.

There was activity around her house fro c 19:00 on 18th March the evening before her missing and she last spoke to anyone (her parents separately) c 20:00 and 20:30 that evening.
There was more suspicious activity around her house at c 5:00 0n 19th March 2009, the next morning.
She would normally have set off for work c 05:15 -05:45, depending if walking or taking a lift.

There is no evidence to suggest that Claudia was even at home that evening. Other than she spoke to her Mum c 20:00 and was watching the same TV programs, it was on in the background.

There is no evidence to state the time she went missing.
She did not turn up for work on 19th March, workplace did not advise anyone.
The next day a friend was worried for her as she did not turn up for a pre arranged drink on the first evening of 19th march that she was missing.

Her friend advised her father who assisted by the Pub landlord searched her house on 20th March-When she was not at home they reported her missing to police.
There were some 40 hours that had passed before she was last known to be alive and being reported missing-The "Golden Hour" had pas

Claudia lived in Malton, Near York in 2006. She moved to Heworth in York around 2008 as she had a new job and the shift patterns, normally 06;00 to 14:00 were difficult. In late 2008 she moved to a house on Heworth Road, where it is alleged she went missing from.

This Claudia information is not completely correct. I will correct:

Claudia's 4 mutual acquaintances who were arrested but not charged due to CPS not finding sufficient evidence were all from York area and known to her, she used to drink with them at the local pub in Heworth a few doors from her house.
The 4 refused to cooperate with the enquiry. Today, they all still live in the area of Heworth / York where she went missing.

None have moved to Cyprus. The Cyprus connection was never proven other than she had a call with a friend from Cyprus the evening around her going missing. The friend was an acquaintance of the Landlord of the pub Claudia frequented. Claudia had not been to the pub since the Sunday prior to her disappearance, this was unusual.
Claudia was last seen on CCTV walking home from work on 18th March 2009.

There is no evidence that she disappeared on her way to work on 19th march 2009-CCTV footage of her walk to work that day does not show her.

There was activity around her house fro c 19:00 on 18th March the evening before her missing and she last spoke to anyone (her parents separately) c 20:00 and 20:30 that evening.
There was more suspicious activity around her house at c 5:00 0n 19th March 2009, the next morning.
She would normally have set off for work c 05:15 -05:45, depending if walking or taking a lift.

There is no evidence to suggest that Claudia was even at home that evening. Other than she spoke to her Mum c 20:00 and was watching the same TV programs, it was on in the background.

There is no evidence to state the time she went missing.
She did not turn up for work on 19th March, workplace did not advise anyone.
The next day a friend was worried for her as she did not turn up for a pre arranged drink on the first evening of 19th march that she was missing.

Her friend advised her father who assisted by the Pub landlord searched her house on 20th March-When she was not at home they reported her missing to police.
There were some 40 hours that had passed before she was last known to be alive and being reported missing-The "Golden Hour" had

I do take your point but he did apparently say 6pm initially & SL being so fastidious & meticulous about apts wouldn’t have said she’d come then or agree to that time as committed elsewhere. Every apt she had she was apparently at least 5 mins early.

It may well be nothing, as you say & not anything to read too much into, but a specific time was given & she apparently agreed to meet at this time. This is all from the police record.

To my mind a lot points to CV being latterly confused & muddled. Not sinister.

The fact she was on the phone to the pub moments before leaving office also wanted clearer unpacking in 86 I feel & indeed whole ‘pub’ narrative. Just to clarify her timeline where possible. They needed all help could get in this regard.

We don’t know much about the opening time of pub who who was present on that Monday in July. It wasn’t a usual day. We know when perm landlord left & stock check. DV even flags it’s poss it wasn’t open for lunch that day

I'd say it's far easier to lure someone to a location, to ask them to step inside a place, or to coerce them to get in a vehicle, than kidnap them in broad daylight.

So on the balance of it, no - unless you're defining 'kidnap' as the act of luring her into a vehicle. If so, if that was a 'stranger abduction' I suggest that would involve way more than one person as SJL was young, fit, healthy, and likely to put up one heck of a struggle as soon as she realised something was off.

i think SLP was lured into a trap that day.

 

[lee sumner]

Last night on Channel 5 was a documentary called “ Who killed Lin & Megan Russell”.
It ran for 1.5 hours (less ad breaks) so was fairly comprehensive.
It clearly demonstrated that the police can obtain a conviction with only circumstantial evidence.
They had no forensic evidence linking Michael Stone to the Russell murders.
Even the famous bootlace (supposedly used by Michael Stone during his drug taking) had none of his DNA on it.

On this basis Suzy Lamplugh’s prime suspect JC should have easily been convicted using the same sort of unreliable circumstantial evidence.

yes, i watched the lin and megan russell documentary, and stone was convicted on the word of a grass, damian daly. there was no forensic evidence against him. nothing to put him at the scene. he was a heroin addict, and if he was planning on robbing someone, he would hardly wait on a quiet country lane. it just does not make sense. stone was a local nutter, put does that make him a killer. i think he could be innocent.

 

[lee sumner]

yes, DL always tells the LIFE IS FOR LIVING story. the last thing SLP ever said to her.

that is great info. it says SLP was interested in expensive property in west london. property she could not afford.

 

[Scorpiette]

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but I've always felt it such a coincidence/'bad luck' that Suzy may have known 2 killers, both now locked up in jail.

Family of Suzy Lamplugh want police to quiz Steve Wright over her 'murder'

The family of estate agent Suzy Lamplugh is urging police to question Suffolk Strangler Steve Wright over her disappearance.

www.ipswichstar.co.uk

.

 

[lee sumner]

Cash, ‘innocent’ promotional work def did go on & taking businessman on UK tours etc, hostessing etc but take your point & could be a grey area. The funding of her lifestyle confused police as did not tally with her income. Going out with ‘Arab princes’ to escort to Establishment balls was said to be above board etc. Why & how? Poss through work as he was in the property industry. Esp chilling as JC had form for signing up with agencies.

You make an interesting point here & I have thought similarly on the 6pm apt, the devil in the details & this has been lost & overlooked. What you say might somehow make sense of that very last call, apparently with CV’s wife, where she was anxious to leave the office & half sitting half standing. Was this altering the pick up time?

yes, they said SLP was living a very expensive lifestyle. what did they mean. was she living beyond her means. friends said she was good at handling money and predicted she would one day be rich. her flat in putney is now worth 1 million. i did some digging, and it was valued at 1 million, so if SLP still owned her flat she would be rich.

 

[lee sumner]

Claudia lived in Malton, Near York in 2006. She moved to Heworth in York around 2008 as she had a new job and the shift patterns, normally 06;00 to 14:00 were difficult. In late 2008 she moved to a house on Heworth Road, where it is alleged she went missing from.

This Claudia information is not completely correct. I will correct:

Claudia's 4 mutual acquaintances who were arrested but not charged due to CPS not finding sufficient evidence were all from York area and known to her, she used to drink with them at the local pub in Heworth a few doors from her house.
The 4 refused to cooperate with the enquiry. Today, they all still live in the area of Heworth / York where she went missing.

None have moved to Cyprus. The Cyprus connection was never proven other than she had a call with a friend from Cyprus the evening around her going missing. The friend was an acquaintance of the Landlord of the pub Claudia frequented. Claudia had not been to the pub since the Sunday prior to her disappearance, this was unusual.
Claudia was last seen on CCTV walking home from work on 18th March 2009.

There is no evidence that she disappeared on her way to work on 19th march 2009-CCTV footage of her walk to work that day does not show her.

There was activity around her house fro c 19:00 on 18th March the evening before her missing and she last spoke to anyone (her parents separately) c 20:00 and 20:30 that evening.
There was more suspicious activity around her house at c 5:00 0n 19th March 2009, the next morning.
She would normally have set off for work c 05:15 -05:45, depending if walking or taking a lift.

There is no evidence to suggest that Claudia was even at home that evening. Other than she spoke to her Mum c 20:00 and was watching the same TV programs, it was on in the background.

There is no evidence to state the time she went missing.
She did not turn up for work on 19th March, workplace did not advise anyone.
The next day a friend was worried for her as she did not turn up for a pre arranged drink on the first evening of 19th march that she was missing.

Her friend advised her father who assisted by the Pub landlord searched her house on 20th March-When she was not at home they reported her missing to police.
There were some 40 hours that had passed before she was last known to be alive and being reported missing-The "Golden Hour" had passed.

i think there was hair straightners missing from claudia home. did she stay out with a mystery lover.

 

[Terryb808]

yes, i watched the lin and megan russell documentary, and stone was convicted on the word of a grass, damian daly. there was no forensic evidence against him. nothing to put him at the scene. he was a heroin addict, and if he was planning on robbing someone, he would hardly wait on a quiet country lane. it just does not make sense. stone was a local nutter, put does that make him a killer. i think he could be innocent.

All the evidence (circumstantial & otherwise) points to someone else. The only thing that remote point to Stone is Josie saying the killer asked for money.

She suffered such trauma that day I’d have to question the accuracy of her recall.

The autopsy report on Lin & Megan indicated that the killer was opposite handed to Stone.

The bootlace didn’t have Stones DNA on it (you have to question why this exhibit disappeared for so long) and as far as I know it’s not been confirmed who’s DNA it did have on it.

One witness saw a beige Ford in the area at the time, and if I’m correct there were more witnesses who saw this same car.

Bellfield’s partner owned an Ivory coloured Ford Sierra, which Bellfield used, this vehicle was mysteriously burned out after the Russell murders.

I’d say there’s more circumstantial evidence saying someone else did this than is actually saying Stone is guilty.

 

[WestLondoner]

Interesting that in both the JC and MS cases, the argument that he's the man relies on the word of a snitch, uncorroborated by any forensic evidence either then or now.

In each case you do have to wonder what was in it for the snitch. If it was public spiritedness, you wonder why it suddenly set in when it did.

 

[lee sumner]

I do take your point but he did apparently say 6pm initially & SL being so fastidious & meticulous about apts wouldn’t have said she’d come then or agree to that time as committed elsewhere. Every apt she had she was apparently at least 5 mins early.

It may well be nothing, as you say & not anything to read too much into, but a specific time was given & she apparently agreed to meet at this time. This is all from the police record.

To my mind a lot points to CV being latterly confused & muddled. Not sinister.

The fact she was on the phone to the pub moments before leaving office also wanted clearer unpacking in 86 I feel & indeed whole ‘pub’ narrative. Just to clarify her timeline where possible. They needed all help could get in this regard.

We don’t know much about the opening time of pub who who was present on that Monday in July. It wasn’t a usual day. We know when perm landlord left & stock check. DV even flags it’s poss it wasn’t open for lunch that day I believe

SLP would have just picked up her missing items on the way home from work. after her 6pm apt with joanna, 43 waldermar. it makes sense she would do this. she does not have to be there 6pm or else.

 

[WestLondoner]

her flat in putney is now worth 1 million. i did some digging, and it was valued at 1 million, so if SLP still owned her flat she would be rich.

Inflation =/= wealth unfortunately.

There are three flats at 49 Disraeli Road, all of which according to Zoopla are worth about £1.81 million. This sounds like a lot until you consider that to collect your winnings on owning one, you'd need to sell it. This would leave you needing to buy another flat, which is going to cost you, er, roughly £1.81 million (unless you're prepared to trade down to a grottier area).

 

[lee sumner]

All the evidence (circumstantial & otherwise) points to someone else. The only thing that remote point to Stone is Josie saying the killer asked for money.

She suffered such trauma that day I’d have to question the accuracy of her recall.

The autopsy report on Lin & Megan indicated that the killer was opposite handed to Stone.

The bootlace didn’t have Stones DNA on it (you have to question why this exhibit disappeared for so long) and as far as I know it’s not been confirmed who’s DNA it did have on it.

One witness saw a beige Ford in the area at the time, and if I’m correct there were more witnesses who saw this same car.

Bellfield’s partner owned an Ivory coloured Ford Sierra, which Bellfield used, this vehicle was mysteriously burned out after the Russell murders.

I’d say there’s more circumstantial evidence saying someone else did this than is actually saying Stone is guilty.

i also read that josie russell said the killer was a tall man like her father shaun. stone is a very small man. they said josie was mistaken, but the fact she used her fathers height when giving a description means she was telling the truth, and was not mistaken.

 

[Pinkizzy]

Inflation =/= wealth unfortunately.

There are three flats at 49 Disraeli Road, all of which according to Zoopla are worth about £1.81 million. This sounds like a lot until you consider that to collect your winnings on owning one, you'd need to sell it. This would leave you needing to buy another flat, which is going to cost you, er, roughly £1.81 million (unless you're prepared to trade down to a grottier area).

She was looking for a business address, I guess that would mean a flat above a shop and cheaper to buy. However, she may have had a mystery business partner to help her with the increased costs. I'm wondering whether the new business was a venture to launder money from the sale of drugs or stolen items.

 

[lee sumner]

Interesting point & then add to that we have the witness who saw the smiling woman, alone at this stage, much fairer than photos suggested, waiting outside 37. Could this mean, if genuine viewing, ‘Kipper’ was late?

yes, that is what i thought

 

[lee sumner]

Inflation =/= wealth unfortunately.

There are three flats at 49 Disraeli Road, all of which according to Zoopla are worth about £1.81 million. This sounds like a lot until you consider that to collect your winnings on owning one, you'd need to sell it. This would leave you needing to buy another flat, which is going to cost you, er, roughly £1.81 million (unless you're prepared to trade down to a grottier area).

i wonder where SLP was planning on living after she sold her flat. was she going to downsize to a 1 bedroom flat in putney or fulham.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

yes, they said SLP was living a very expensive lifestyle. what did they mean. was she living beyond her means. friends said she was good at handling money and predicted she would one day be rich. her flat in putney is now worth 1 million. i did some digging, and it was valued at 1 million, so if SLP still owned her flat she would be rich.

Maybe 'expensive lifestyle' meant that she had unexplained income as her earnings were not in proportion to her lavish outgoings but she wasn't in debt.

When it was said she was 'living beyond her means' then what I'd like to know was in what way was that proven - did she have debts or loans? - or were people noticing that there's no way she could be surviving on rental income from her lodger and her estate agency earnings alone?

Has this always been a hint that she was earning on the side somehow? As opposed to a suggestion that she was flying by the seat of her pants.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

i wonder where SLP was planning on living after she sold her flat. was she going to downsize to a 1 bedroom flat in putney or fulham.

Why would she sell perfectly good bricks and mortar and not rent it out whilst it gained in value every year? That's what most people in the estate agency trade would know to do. Once you've got a decent property, you hold on to it. You only 'flip' properties if you bought them in poor condition, did them up, and then sell so you can go on do the same again.

Was she in serious debt to someone? Someone who felt it wasn't looking like they were going to recover their money after all?