UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[Ljh21]

Why would he be eliminated fron the enquiry , for me i would be more inclined to suspect him , i mean you have a missing presumed dead sjl and the prints on the car are his al’s and sjl , no other known leads but at least to sets of prints to the vehicle

I would like to ask anyone who reads this if they believe jc was the perp with a yes or no answer thanks and if yes do you think the number plate from sb murder is relevant

 

[Ljh21]

Why would he be eliminated fron the enquiry , for me i would be more inclined to suspect him , i mean you have a missing presumed dead sjl and the prints on the car are his al’s and sjl , no other known leads but at least to sets of prints to the vehicle

I wondered if sturgis had any houses for sale on whittingstall on the day sjl disappeared

 

[lee sumner]

Personally i think jc was too sloppy just look at how clumsy he was with sb abduction and murder! Implicated himself everywhere and you would be considering sjl a year earlier he would leave no trace

that canal witness i thought was nuts. that canal was where alice gross was kidnapped and killed. her body was weighted down back in 2014, so that whole canal was searched good and proper. if SL remains were there, they would have been found like alice.

 

[Ljh21]

that canal witness i thought was nuts. that canal was where alice gross was kidnapped and killed. her body was weighted down back in 2014, so that whole canal was searched good and proper. if SL remains were there, they would have been found like alice.

I wonder weather sjl doing deals behind others backs was her downfall, as money talks, i was thinking how many things crimewatch added from these new witnesses that seemed to turn up, you had jc wearing a rugby top in an interview and hey presto a witness recalls seeing a man saying he saw a commotion and he was wearing a rugby top carrying a plastic carrier bag and then there is a picture of jc arrested carrying a carrier bag, i really do think money talked on this one

 

[Ljh21]

that canal witness i thought was nuts. that canal was where alice gross was kidnapped and killed. her body was weighted down back in 2014, so that whole canal was searched good and proper. if SL remains were there, they would have been found like alice.

I was thinking you could get a case with body weight and tracker and see where it ends up

 

[greenwoodlad]

I was thinking you could get a case with body weight and tracker and see where it ends up

are you suggesting one of the forum members throw a weighted trunk into the Grand Union canal at Brentford near the bridge? ..... the flow / pressure in a canal varies owing to many things such as locks being opened & closed , sluices etc - I doubt conditions would be the same as on the 28th July 1986 ...it would be an interesting test as long as dressing up as JC would not be required by the person dispatching the trunk into the Canal ! ;-D

 

[Eastend Eagle]

I would like to ask anyone who reads this if they believe jc was the perp with a yes or no answer thanks and if yes do you think the number plate from sb murder is relevant

Not John Cannan no.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Something else about this case has just struck me ....who was she meeting at lunchtime that was SO important or WHAT was so important that had to do it then and not , say after her 6.00pm appointment .....what I am getting at is what was so important that she had to (make up IMO the kipper appointment) to get out of the office ...if it was something personal..wouldnt she have sorted it later out of work time??

SO, it has to have been work related OR something personal she HAD to do and it couldn't wait

( AL may be involved ...IMO ..in DV's book finding Suzy he stormed out of a meeting and refused to talk about it becoming very angry and wouldn't give DV any information - in fact DV said it was the most bizarre interview he had every conducted in 30+ years .........)

Lets be honest if I had to make up a reason to leave work at lunchtime and it was something in my personal life it would have to be VERY significant (retrieving her diary would be a reason) or if it was family related one of my family members would know about it...

SO something in her personal life that family didn't know about and work didn't know about - or some side deal meeting in the property market or was she been blackmailed somehow and she had to get out an meet this acquaintance ......

Blackmail is an interesting suggestion as SL's uncle apparently said she told him she was being unfairly leaned on by someone.

 

[tes1984]

I would like to ask anyone who reads this if they believe jc was the perp with a yes or no answer thanks and if yes do you think the number plate from sb murder is relevant

I would say yes, he is the perp. I'm not sure about the number plate, but it's interesting that he had the plate made up as an S reg plate (1977) when Shirley's car was actually an older N reg (1974). I wonder what he planned to do with the car.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

I think dv is not far out, the only things that are a certainty are that sjl had the info that her personal items were at the pow - fact, sjl would have wanted her personal items back - fact, she left work at around 12:30- 12:40 ? Questionable as no-one can 100% prove that. So 2 choice’s something happened at work or at the pow, we have no factual evidence of anything other happening apart from theories so i agree with dv that we stick to the facts but at which location , i would choose the pow all day long over anything happening at work, but mg meeting the neighbour and selling his narrative and dl talking to a eyewitness really muddied the waters and for me left a question mark over mg, and the neighbour saying sjl was bundled into a van leaves a massive red flag over him also. One thing i would have liked to have seen is dv looking into the character of cv , kh

Interesting, do you think MG directed DL into speaking with WJ?

 

[Ljh21]

My

Blackmail is an interesting suggestion as SL's uncle apparently said she told him she was being unfairly leaned on by someone.

that surely would be the business deal with pss?

 

[Eastend Eagle]

My

that surely would be the business deal with pss?

I think there was talk of a Bristol based businessman

 

[Eastend Eagle]

I’m a few posts behind, but I think it would be normal for a woman to take a purse with them when popping out. You might want to buy something, your car might breakdown and you need change for a phone box. It was summer and I don’t know what she was wearing when she went missing but it could easily have been a dress with no pockets, hence her putting her purse in the door pocket of the car. I really don’t think it was because she was buying sandwiches or planning to buy anything else. It’s just something you took with you!

Or her purse could have been taken from her when abducted and then placed in the car to make Police believe she had been in Stevenage Road JMO

 

[Eastend Eagle]

Absolutely, if she was intending to be away more than a VERY short period of time surely she would have taken her handbag - I think the fact she didn't take it is crucial evidence ....I could see she would just grab her purse if she was going to a shop quickly or the bank perhaps but if she was driving somewhere in her eg to POW (15 - 20 mins away..).why wouldn't she take her bag ? why would she leave it in her office with other colleagues and members of the public in and out all the time especially if her handbag contained any personal items....

Yes, abducted soon after leaving the office, her purse placed in the car to make police believe she'd been to Stevenage Road JMO

 

[greenwoodlad]

The more and more I look at this .......Things happen very quickly - look at the Soham murders - the girls were dead before the parents realised they were missing and Huntley was disposing of their bodies about the time everyone actually realised they were missing .....so sadly they were gone ...if we apply the same thinking to SJL case .. she could have been killed and dealt with by say 5pm latest , before the furore about her being missing actually kicked off ....even if like the Soham case the murder could have been initially unplanned and just a case of something went wrong in a split second causing her death . therefore someone had to act quickly .... the only issue I have with this is that you cant dispose of a body in daylight hours and risk being seen - where do you dispose of a body ....in a remote place at a quiet time.( so not in Central London) ....but I think getting it over and done with before the furore started as it would be in nobody's mind to look for anything suspicious until say 8pm that evening / or the day after even.
So I'm going with she was dead by 4pm at the latest and her remains dealt with by midnight or even quicker that this - thoughts??

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The more and more I look at this .......Things happen very quickly - look at the Soham murders - the girls were dead before the parents realised they were missing and Huntley was disposing of their bodies about the time everyone actually realised they were missing .....so sadly they were gone ...if we apply the same thinking to SJL case .. she could have been killed and dealt with by say 5pm latest , before the furore about her being missing actually kicked off ....even if like the Soham case the murder could have been initially unplanned and just a case of something went wrong in a split second causing her death . therefore someone had to act quickly .... the only issue I have with this is that you cant dispose of a body in daylight hours and risk being seen - where do you dispose of a body ....in a remote place at a quiet time.( so not in Central London) ....but I think getting it over and done with before the furore started as it would be in nobody's mind to look for anything suspicious until say 8pm that evening / or the day after even.
So I'm going with she was dead by 4pm at the latest and her remains dealt with by midnight or even quicker that this - thoughts??

It's probably not a great comparison to be honest.

As the victims were children, young enough to believe the perpetrator who was in a trusted position of authority (caretaker and also partner of their beloved teaching assistant). The crime was spontaneous, ad hoc, Huntley could have had no idea they were about to approach his house so he lured them on false pretences, acting in the moment because he's a disgusting violent predatory child sexual offender it seems. He had the benefit of being in his own home with all resources at hand, he was not under any form of suspicion, he had plenty of time, his partner was away from home, he was alone and nobody suspected him.

He took his time to think where to dispose of his victims, which he had the time and resources to do, he was in a remote countryside / surburban area. He had time to craft a cover story and even invented himself a role in the search. He also secured a false witness account / alibi from his partner who rightly went to prison for her part. Frankly IMO the police failed in identifying him quickly as the most likely suspect, last person to see the girls, and shady as hell character. If they could not determine that he's the sort of personality who has a subjugated girlfriend who was highly likely to provide false alibi then they're not much on detection IMO. However, LE could not have saved the lives of his victims.

Most murders of women and children happen in domestic settings, spontaneously (fits of rage) and are easily detected and justice is served. Some predators such as above act spontaneously but that is thankfully so rare.

Planned abductions of grown women in broad daylight, I'm not sure. What comparisons do we have? Are there similar cases to SJL? Did someone even plan to abduct her or what she a victim of a spontaneous murder by someone who knew her and that person got really lucky in evading detection?

JMO MOO

 

[WestLondoner]

where do you dispose of a body ....in a remote place at a quiet time.( so not in Central London)

There are ways - clearly, as it was done.

The most obvious way is to lure her into a property, kill her inside, then hide the body at that property. Lever up the floorboards of my living room and a few feet underneath is the dirt the house was built on. Some period houses even have a handy access hatch to enable entry to this space, for plumbers, pest catchers and so on. If she were taken into such a house, or even an unoccupied ground-floor flat, that's where you hide her. She goes in unnoticed, never leaves and would be undiscovered until the house is demolished.

Another way is to lure her into a rented garage, Superhire warehouse to which you nicked or copied the key, or other utility building. The killer drives in with her, closes the doors, kills her, and does a Sexy Beast disposal where he takes up and then replaces the floor tiles. The garage / lockup is then put back into normal use.

As it's a garage, he could instead drive her out again, perhaps in a different car. Then he just has to find a place to dispose of the body. Into water would be simplest, provided he can find the right water.

I don't really buy the canal story for a number of reasons, but one is the faff. Why would you hump a heavy suitcase with a body inside on foot in order to drop it into a canal that's quite shallow and has water traffic? He had her in a building somewhere if he managed to load her into a packing case. Given this and that he used a car, wouldn't it be a lot simpler to drive her to the nearest unobserved deep water with a handy road bridge over the middle?

I used to live and work around Birmingham and the West Midlands and Staffordshire. On my wanderings there as a sales rep, I noticed Blithfield Reservoir. It's unobserved deep water with a handy road bridge over the middle, nicely secluded and half a mile or so as the crow flies from any building. It's also nearly 50 feet deep. It's untreated water, meaning if you drop bodies into it, nobody's going to start complaining the tap water tastes funny lately. I mention that one only because it's quite handy for Cannan's mother's house, for whatever that's worth. There must be many, many similar places around the country.

So how you hide a body in central London is, you get into a building and hide her under a floor; or you kill her inside the building, leave inconspicuously with her in the boot, and thus don't hide her in central London at all.

 

[greenwoodlad]

It's probably not a great comparison to be honest.

As the victims were children, young enough to believe the perpetrator who was in a trusted position of authority (caretaker and also partner of their beloved teaching assistant). The crime was spontaneous, ad hoc, Huntley could have had no idea they were about to approach his house so he lured them on false pretences, acting in the moment because he's a disgusting violent predatory child sexual offender it seems. He had the benefit of being in his own home with all resources at hand, he was not under any form of suspicion, he had plenty of time, his partner was away from home, he was alone and nobody suspected him.

He took his time to think where to dispose of his victims, which he had the time and resources to do, he was in a remote countryside / surburban area. He had time to craft a cover story and even invented himself a role in the search. He also secured a false witness account / alibi from his partner who rightly went to prison for her part. Frankly IMO the police failed in identifying him quickly as the most likely suspect, last person to see the girls, and shady as hell character. If they could not determine that he's the sort of personality who has a subjugated girlfriend who was highly likely to provide false alibi then they're not much on detection IMO. However, LE could not have saved the lives of his victims.

Most murders of women and children happen in domestic settings, spontaneously (fits of rage) and are easily detected and justice is served. Some predators such as above act spontaneously but that is thankfully so rare.

Planned abductions of grown women in broad daylight, I'm not sure. What comparisons do we have? Are there similar cases to SJL? Did someone even plan to abduct her or what she a victim of a spontaneous murder by someone who knew her and that person got really lucky in evading detection?

JMO MOO

Exactly , I’m not sure it was planned . She met someone she knew, a contact or acquaintance and something went wrong....after the event I think that person acted quickly that day....but if this is the case - you end up with a dead body there what do you? do where so you take it? and how do you remain that normal calm person after you have done that and act normally in front of your family / partner ? or maybe this perpetrator didn't have partner or family at that time - no one to notice him or her being stressed , anxious, panicky, different etc how do you carry all this out in plain sight so to speak ...this person could still be out there today. IMO

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I would like to ask anyone who reads this if they believe jc was the perp with a yes or no answer thanks and if yes do you think the number plate from sb murder is relevant

Like Mao said when asked, by an American delegation in Nixon's undisclosed, wide-ranging discussions with the Chinese, what affect on Global politics did the French Revolution have.... "It's too early to tell"

I think JC is a fair candidate but not overly convinced. Just too many unknown details/facts. Im about to start the AC book.
You guys who know the history of the case far deeper than myself, could you offer any thoughts, on the Red Sierra/ownership/possible relevance/validity?

 

[lee sumner]

I wonder weather sjl doing deals behind others backs was her downfall, as money talks, i was thinking how many things crimewatch added from these new witnesses that seemed to turn up, you had jc wearing a rugby top in an interview and hey presto a witness recalls seeing a man saying he saw a commotion and he was wearing a rugby top carrying a plastic carrier bag and then there is a picture of jc arrested carrying a carrier bag, i really do think money talked on this one

the lamplugh case is like the JFK case in the US, full of conspiracy and innuendo. no real facts.