UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[tes1984]

Did the police ever have Michael Sams as a suspect? has form for abducting estate agents

 

[BrianJohnson]

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I have always had the feeling Cannan was not responsible, the timeline just never felt right, Sams was my no1 suspect

 

[tes1984]

I have always had the feeling Cannan was not responsible, the timeline just never felt right, Sams was my no1 suspect

You never know, but IMO Cannan is a much stronger suspect than Sams.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

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Anyone read this? Worth reading?

 

[WestLondoner]

I haven't read it but there are a number of obstacles to Sams being involved IMO.

1/ He was a recent amputee who'd likely have had trouble subduing a young and fit woman such as SJL
2/ He later managed to abduct an estate agent but so as to demand a ransom, releasing her when it was paid. One wonders therefore why he didn't do the same with SJL if he took her
3/ He carried out his crimes in the Midlands and the north and had no known connections to London
4/ He was caught when his previous wife recognised a recording of his voice sent as a ransom demand; nobody ever recognised or denounced "Mr Kipper".
5/ As with Cannan, nobody's shown Sams met SJL, or was even in an area where he might have.

I haven't read the book and it's possible that it does address all the above, of course.

 

[lee sumner]

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when sams abducted steph slater. he told her he was responsible for snatching suzy lamplugh. he said it to her just hours after taking her. she was obviously scared and did believe him, but i dont believe he was mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

I haven't read it but there are a number of obstacles to Sams being involved IMO.

1/ He was a recent amputee who'd likely have had trouble subduing a young and fit woman such as SJL
2/ He later managed to abduct an estate agent but so as to demand a ransom, releasing her when it was paid. One wonders therefore why he didn't do the same with SJL if he took her
3/ He carried out his crimes in the Midlands and the north and had no known connections to London
4/ He was caught when his previous wife recognised a recording of his voice sent as a ransom demand; nobody ever recognised or denounced "Mr Kipper".
5/ As with Cannan, nobody's shown Sams met SJL, or was even in an area where he might have.

I haven't read the book and it's possible that it does address all the above, of course.

sams wanted ransom money for steph slater, and he looks nothing like mr kipper E FIT. there is no way sams was behind lamplugh disappearance.

 

[Terryb808]

when sams abducted steph slater. he told her he was responsible for snatching suzy lamplugh. he said it to her just hours after taking her. she was obviously scared and did believe him, but i dont believe he was mr kipper.

Seems there’s no shortage of criminals claiming they abducted SJL. Due undoubtedly to the high profile placed on her case by the media and to some degree the effects of DL.

 

[tes1984]

when sams abducted steph slater. he told her he was responsible for snatching suzy lamplugh. he said it to her just hours after taking her. she was obviously scared and did believe him, but i dont believe he was mr kipper.

I haven't read the Berry-Dee book about Sams, but I think his 'confession' was an attempt to stay in the spotlight. IIRC Fred and Rose West were all over the media and he felt forgotten. Levi Bellfield has made the same sort of attention seeking false confessions a few times in more recent years.

Was Sams ever in the same prison as John Cannan?

 

[WestLondoner]

Sams is in prison somewhere in the Midlands. Cannan was in Full Sutton which is in east Yorkshire.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes, that documentary is rather flawed, if we're thinking of the same one. There is no evidence that JC went to the PoW and the Met have not been able to prove that he and SJL ever met. I believe that is one of the reasons why the CPS would not allow them to proceed with a charge and prosecution.

he had only been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier, so i doubt he was a regular in the POW, and i dont believe he was watching SL and AL that weekend. it all appears to be hearsay and rumour with no real evidence.

 

[lee sumner]

Not an inconceivable possibility, not sure the witness (EH) gave a description that matched them. However, witness sightings aren’t always accurate.
Against is the fact that neither has owned up to abducting SJL. Generally I think if they were the perpetrators it would have come out by now.

duffy gave a full confession finally implicating mulcahy. if they snatched SL that day duffy would have told the whole story when he snitched on mulcahy. his recall was amazing according to investigators. dates/times/locations, duffy could remember them all.

 

[Konstantin]

he had only been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier, so i doubt he was a regular in the POW, and i dont believe he was watching SL and AL that weekend. it all appears to be hearsay and rumour with no real evidence.

Mr Kipper's photofit was published all over the media and in a crimewatch episode. SJL lived locally to the PoW so those who did frequent it would have most likely been very interested in the news story of a local young woman they may very well have seen around being abducted, especially since her diary was found in the pub. People talk.

If Cannan or any bloke resembling Mr Kipper's photofit had been in the PoW, it is very odd that no one called in to say that a man resembling him had been in the PoW. Pub goers who are locals would likely recall strangers particularly good looking ones who dress somewhat more smartly than the average PoW drinker. It is likely that someone dressed up smartly in the way that Kipper was, had that been his regular attire of course, would have stood out in there. It was by all accounts not a smart venue.

 

[WestLondoner]

he had only been released from the scrubs 3 days earlier, so i doubt he was a regular in the POW, and i dont believe he was watching SL and AL that weekend. it all appears to be hearsay and rumour with no real evidence.

He'd been on day release so had been allowed out to work. It's unclear whether the prerelease hostels curfew was properly enforced so he may have had quite a lot of freedom.

 

[Terryb808]

Mr Kipper's photofit was published all over the media and in a crimewatch episode. SJL lived locally to the PoW so those who did frequent it would have most likely been very interested in the news story of a local young woman they may very well have seen around being abducted, especially since her diary was found in the pub. People talk.

If Cannan or any bloke resembling Mr Kipper's photofit had been in the PoW, it is very odd that no one called in to say that a man resembling him had been in the PoW. Pub goers who are locals would likely recall strangers particularly good looking ones who dress somewhat more smartly than the average PoW drinker. It is likely that someone dressed up smartly in the way that Kipper was, had that been his regular attire of course, would have stood out in there. It was by all accounts not a smart venue.

Agree 100% with this, someone like Cannan would have stood out and unless none of those reports the police received saying he did frequent the POW reached the media, then he wasn’t ever a patron of theatre pub.

 

[Konstantin]

Agree 100% with this, someone like Cannan would have stood out and unless none of those reports the police received saying he did frequent the POW reached the media, then he wasn’t ever a patron of theatre pub.

They can't have done for the initial investigation. Maybe for the re-investigation but it seems like this was just a rumour that circulated later, perhaps.
AS has no mention that the police had heard that someone fitting "Kipper's" description had drank in the PoW. No one had seen such a man anywhere in SJL's usual haunts.
The media were all over the SJL story and to the best of my knowledge never published this either.
PoW was a rather local pub, wasn't it - not a flashy place for the local smart set like SJL's mates or similar. Even in London local pubs tend to have folks who tend to be aware of what's happening on their "turf". SJL would have been discussed in there after her abduction.
It wasn't the sort of place SJL herself went to (even if her diary and chequebook were found just outside- she prob used the phone box outside it).
SB's husband did remember seeing Cannan in their local, didn't he?

 

[lee sumner]

He'd been on day release so had been allowed out to work. It's unclear whether the prerelease hostels curfew was properly enforced so he may have had quite a lot of freedom.

i would love to know how much freedom JC had in the 6 months he spent in the scrubs hostel.

 

[lee sumner]

They can't have done for the initial investigation. Maybe for the re-investigation but it seems like this was just a rumour that circulated later, perhaps.
AS has no mention that the police had heard that someone fitting "Kipper's" description had drank in the PoW. No one had seen such a man anywhere in SJL's usual haunts.
The media were all over the SJL story and to the best of my knowledge never published this either.
PoW was a rather local pub, wasn't it - not a flashy place for the local smart set like SJL's mates or similar. Even in London local pubs tend to have folks who tend to be aware of what's happening on their "turf". SJL would have been discussed in there after her abduction.
It wasn't the sort of place SJL herself went to (even if her diary and chequebook were found just outside- she prob used the phone box outside it).
SB's husband did remember seeing Cannan in their local, didn't he?

SB husband richard did remember seeing JC in there local. i think it was the avon gorge hotel.

 

[RichardKimble]

SB husband richard did remember seeing JC in there local. i think it was the avon gorge hotel.

That would suggest maybe JC picked her out, there's no evidence that we know of the JC frequented any social gatherings where SJL would be.

 

[lee sumner]

That would suggest maybe JC picked her out, there's no evidence that we know of the JC frequented any social gatherings where SJL would be.

yes, that is what i was thinking. JC picked SB out.