UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[greenwoodlad]

Ive been looking at the fiesta as a piece of evidence and taking into account all that is known ...I feel.....

1. It was abandoned (not parked!) in a hurry - hence not parked straight , handbrake off and the door unlocked ...but why take the keys and not the purse.

2. I feel where it was abandoned is significant - why outside a property for sale by Sturgis? and why on that particular street in that particular place it just can't be coincidence....

3. Who abandoned it there ? I think the evidence is mixed but on balance says it was NOT Suzy ...actually why would she change the seat position - if indeed it was ever changed ? as one person on this forum states ...

4. Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

So my conclusion is

car was abandoned by someone other than Suzy , in a hurry and location of outside 123 stevenage rd was significant.

someone would have surely seen it actually driven along those streets before it was dumped?

Thoughts?

 

[Ljh21]

Tenni

Yep there was no tennis date planned ....
1 . Suzy didn't take any tennis gear
2. No tennis partner came forward
3. where was this taking place?

Tennis does not even enter the equation as you have to deal with sjl missing since being at work.

the detectives working the case should have searched the POW, as we know SL was planning on going there, but there is no evidence to say she changed her mind and went there before 6pm. the landlord hardly knows the pub as he only started working there recently, but DV wants us to believe KH killed SL there, and buried her remains there.

but 6pm is only because that is what they said

 

[Ljh21]

Ive been looking at the fiesta as a piece of evidence and taking into account all that is known ...I feel.....

1. It was abandoned (not parked!) in a hurry - hence not parked straight , handbrake off and the door unlocked ...but why take the keys and not the purse.

2. I feel where it was abandoned is significant - why outside a property for sale by Sturgis? and why on that particular street in that particular place it just can't be coincidence....

3. Who abandoned it there ? I think the evidence is mixed but on balance says it was NOT Suzy ...actually why would she change the seat position - if indeed it was ever changed ? as one person on this forum states ...

4. Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

So my conclusion is

car was abandoned by someone other than Suzy , in a hurry and location of outside 123 stevenage rd was significant.

Thoughts?

Totally agree with it being left there and if at 12:40 ish it only leaves one option the workplace as her purse being in the car takes the investigation away from the other sturgis cars and the workplace

 

[Ljh21]

Ive been looking at the fiesta as a piece of evidence and taking into account all that is known ...I feel.....

1. It was abandoned (not parked!) in a hurry - hence not parked straight , handbrake off and the door unlocked ...but why take the keys and not the purse.

2. I feel where it was abandoned is significant - why outside a property for sale by Sturgis? and why on that particular street in that particular place it just can't be coincidence....

3. Who abandoned it there ? I think the evidence is mixed but on balance says it was NOT Suzy ...actually why would she change the seat position - if indeed it was ever changed ? as one person on this forum states ...

4. Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

So my conclusion is

car was abandoned by someone other than Suzy , in a hurry and location of outside 123 stevenage rd was significant.

Thoughts?

Totally agree with it being left there and if at 12:40 ish it only leaves one option the workplace as her purse being in the car takes the investigation away from the other sturgis cars and the workplace

Totally agree with it being left there and if at 12:40 ish it only leaves one option the workplace as her purse being in the car takes the investigation away from the other sturgis cars and the workplace

if she had been placed in the boot of another sturgis car hurriedly then maybe the keys were on her and could not be got to so would have to use the other spare set which obviously could not be left in the car as they would be proved not to be hers

 

[Ljh21]

why would SL use such a bizarre name like mr kipper. she would have used a name that did not stand out.

Maybe that was a message from mg to write down and obviously had another meaning

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Ive been looking at the fiesta as a piece of evidence and taking into account all that is known ...I feel.....

1. It was abandoned (not parked!) in a hurry - hence not parked straight , handbrake off and the door unlocked ...but why take the keys and not the purse.

2. I feel where it was abandoned is significant - why outside a property for sale by Sturgis? and why on that particular street in that particular place it just can't be coincidence....

3. Who abandoned it there ? I think the evidence is mixed but on balance says it was NOT Suzy ...actually why would she change the seat position - if indeed it was ever changed ? as one person on this forum states ...

4. Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

So my conclusion is

car was abandoned by someone other than Suzy , in a hurry and location of outside 123 stevenage rd was significant.

someone would have surely seen it actually driven along those streets before it was dumped?

Thoughts?

I tend to agree, I think. I believe the car was abandoned in a hurry, not parked, by a single driver. Not Sjl. This explains (kinda) why the handbrake was off, and the driver's side door was locked. I also believe that Sjl may have driven it there originally, and that it was subsequently moved. I think she may have gone to 37SR first, accounting for the "sightings" there, followed someone else by car to 123 SR without having entered 37SR, locking the Fiesta with purse inside. She gets into the perp's car, thinking the meeting is only going to last 5 mins or so. Things take a sinister turn at this point.

Perp returns to Fiesta while sjl is being held locally, with the keys (he's appropriated these from sjl) looking perhaps for something that incriminates HIM (or her, of course). Perp opens Fiesta, in a hurry, with handbrake off either missing the purse as it's tucked away in the door, or sees no point in taking it. It's clearly sjl's vehicle, after all. Seat is found pushed right back, either because perp is looking under the seat, or to reset sjl's driving position.

I don't believe this happened in time for WJ to see the Fiesta at 12.40. I think it's quite feasible that she saw a similar car, or another Fiesta, as they were pretty ubiquitous. Her later sighting is correct.

Other possible sightings of sjl at 123SR could also fit this scenario.

However I can't make sense of BW's sighting at FPR. I want to believe her, as I think she's the most credible of the witnesses in some ways, but I can't think of a theory that has sjl driving with a man later in the day. If sjl was abducted, I think it would have been shock and awe, and not involving a drive around Fulham in the early to mid afternoon.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

I can't make any sense at all of why the car would be abandoned opposite another Sturgis property. I think DV's theory is that whoever dumped it there drove it over the bridge (forming a psychological barrier between it and the POW) and then kind of creating a false scent to another Sturgis property.

 

[lee sumner]

that's a fair question...like Mr Smith or something ...so you're thinking the name Mr Kipper is relevant and not invented ...could it be a nickname she has for a known acquaintance and she didn't want her colleagues to know who she was meeting as either way she didn't log this person as an official potential purchaser / viewer . So a meeting that she had planned but didn't want colleagues to know who it was with and therefore potentially inventing the fact it was at 37 SR too

Ive been looking at the fiesta as a piece of evidence and taking into account all that is known ...I feel.....

1. It was abandoned (not parked!) in a hurry - hence not parked straight , handbrake off and the door unlocked ...but why take the keys and not the purse.

2. I feel where it was abandoned is significant - why outside a property for sale by Sturgis? and why on that particular street in that particular place it just can't be coincidence....

3. Who abandoned it there ? I think the evidence is mixed but on balance says it was NOT Suzy ...actually why would she change the seat position - if indeed it was ever changed ? as one person on this forum states ...

4. Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

So my conclusion is

car was abandoned by someone other than Suzy , in a hurry and location of outside 123 stevenage rd was significant.

someone would have surely seen it actually driven along those streets before it was dumped?

Thoughts?

my theory is that ditching SL car on stevenage rd directly across the road from another sturgis property was part of the plan. there is no way that can be a coincidence. that location was chosen. i believe he ditched the car in a hurry, then possibly picked up his own vehicle close by. he then went back to where ever he had SL held captive.

 

[Ljh21]

I tend to agree, I think. I believe the car was abandoned in a hurry, not parked, by a single driver. Not Sjl. This explains (kinda) why the handbrake was off, and the driver's side door was locked. I also believe that Sjl may have driven it there originally, and that it was subsequently moved. I think she may have gone to 37SR first, accounting for the "sightings" there, followed someone else by car to 123 SR without having entered 37SR, locking the Fiesta with purse inside. She gets into the perp's car, thinking the meeting is only going to last 5 mins or so. Things take a sinister turn at this point.

Perp returns to Fiesta while sjl is being held locally, with the keys (he's appropriated these from sjl) looking perhaps for something that incriminates HIM (or her, of course). Perp opens Fiesta, in a hurry, with handbrake off either missing the purse as it's tucked away in the door, or sees no point in taking it. It's clearly sjl's vehicle, after all. Seat is found pushed right back, either because perp is looking under the seat, or to reset sjl's driving position.

I don't believe this happened in time for WJ to see the Fiesta at 12.40. I think it's quite feasible that she saw a similar car, or another Fiesta, as they were pretty ubiquitous. Her later sighting is correct.

Other possible sightings of sjl at 123SR could also fit this scenario.

However I can't make sense of BW's sighting at FPR. I want to believe her, as I think she's the most credible of the witnesses in some ways, but I can't think of a theory that has sjl driving with a man later in the day. If sjl was abducted, I think it would have been shock and awe, and not involving a drive around Fulham in the early to mid afternoon.

I can't make any sense at all of why the car would be abandoned opposite another Sturgis property. I think DV's theory is that whoever dumped it there drove it over the bridge (forming a psychological barrier between it and the POW) and then kind of creating a false scent to another Sturgis property.

if we take that view then that person knew of a sturgis affair maybe or would have to know that sturgis property location, i know you may say it would have a for sale sign outside but then that shows there was a plan and it would not just be a heated disagreement,my question to think about is how if we believe she was followed from 37 to 123 why get in his car if the point of going to 123 was to look at the house.also does anyone know the list of sightings by witnesses at 123 and what they were

 

[Ljh21]

if we take that view then that person knew of a sturgis affair maybe or would have to know that sturgis property location, i know you may say it would have a for sale sign outside but then that shows there was a plan and it would not just be a heated disagreement,my question to think about is how if we believe she was followed from 37 to 123 why get in his car if the point of going to 123 was to look at the house.also does anyone know the list of sightings by witnesses at 123 and what they were

 

[Kasparthecat1]

if we take that view then that person knew of a sturgis affair maybe or would have to know that sturgis property location, i know you may say it would have a for sale sign outside but then that shows there was a plan and it would not just be a heated disagreement,my question to think about is how if we believe she was followed from 37 to 123 why get in his car if the point of going to 123 was to look at the house.also does anyone know the list of sightings by witnesses at 123 and what they were

An alternative perhaps would be Sjl going to 37SR, meeting Kipper and being spotted there, then perhaps driving Kipper to where his own car is parked at 123SR. Perhaps Kipper made a mistake and confused 37SR and 123SR as a meeting point somehow? I feel there's a reason for the car to be apparently abandoned at 123SR but can't think of a sensible one!

 

[Cherwell]

Back to the car, shorrolds road with notoriously bad parking and just a short walk from the office, If suzy had walked then the colleague theory could not happen as her car needs to move, so i will take that one as a plus for them

37 Shorrolds Road is approx one kilometer from the office. A good ten minutes walk.

but 6pm is only because that is what they said

6 pm was the time the pub opened for the evening session. So no point in going there earlier than 6 pm. Later would be fine.

 

[Cherwell]

Passenger door was locked , why lock that and not the drivers - so it was driven there by a person with no passenger.

Not necessarily. No central locking then, so a passenger could lock the door from inside. Just open the door, push the lock lever in, get out, then close the door. It's something I used to do automatically when a passenger.

 

[Ljh21]

An alternative perhaps would be Sjl going to 37SR, meeting Kipper and being spotted there, then perhaps driving Kipper to where his own car is parked at 123SR. Perhaps Kipper made a mistake and confused 37SR and 123SR as a meeting point somehow? I feel there's a reason for the car to be apparently abandoned at 123SR but can't think of a sensible one!

Were all the keys for 123 sr accounted for?
We would need a chronological order of witness dates and times of the statements given or else it is just a guessing game it is impossible to work any detail out or come up with possibilities of what where why or when as all witnesses may just have recalled another meeting at both addresses at any time on any other day.

 

[Konstantin]

37 Shorrolds Road is approx one kilometer from the office. A good ten minutes walk.

6 pm was the time the pub opened for the evening session. So no point in going there earlier than 6 pm. Later would be fine.

10 minutes walk in comfy shoes -- wasn't SJL wearing heels? How comfortable would it be to power walk a km in her shoes?

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Were all the keys for 123 sr accounted for?
We would need a chronological order of witness dates and times of the statements given or else it is just a guessing game it is impossible to work any detail out or come up with possibilities of what where why or when as all witnesses may just have recalled another meeting at both addresses at any time on any other day.

It is indeed a guessing game. We know so very little for certain.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

10 minutes walk in comfy shoes -- wasn't SJL wearing heels? How comfortable would it be to power walk a km in her shoes?

If memory serves she was wearing kitten heels - kind of a low stiletto.

 

[Ljh21]

10 minutes walk in comfy shoes -- wasn't SJL wearing heels? How comfortable would it be to power walk a km in her shoes?

Just had a thought the publican stated “several hours (so lets say 3) after suzy was known to be missing, so lets say 3-3:45 he received a phone call from sarah asking “is suzy there” and left her name and number, anyone know what the publicans statement was in full?
1 if the call was from her mum, her mum would have no idea to call the pub
2 if it was from a friend they too would have no idea she may be going there so that leaves al,(knew she had lost her items) mg, (the same), the flatmate( who possibly knew) and possibly abductors meaning there was a man and woman or the publican is lying

 

[Ljh21]

Just had a thought the publican stated “several hours (so lets say 3) after suzy was known to be missing, so lets say 3-3:45 he received a phone call from sarah asking “is suzy there” and left her name and number, anyone know what the publicans statement was in full?
1 if the call was from her mum, her mum would have no idea to call the pub
2 if it was from a friend they too would have no idea she may be going there so that leaves al,(knew she had lost her items) mg, (the same), the flatmate( who possibly knew) and possibly abductors meaning there was a man and woman or the publican is lying

There are no other choices apart from other work colleagues, so that rules out jc and any other lone male attackers

 

[Ljh21]

I hadn't considered the possibility of someone else returning to the car to remove property particulars and perhaps the key, if indeed she'd taken it with her. Perhaps they were on the passenger seat. That someone could well have missed the purse, tucked away in the map pocket.

I'm also of the opinion that Suzy drove herself to Stevenage Road and was alone.

I thought the 37sr key fob was in the office, can anyone clear that up?