UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

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  • #601
Jc had plenty of time to check the area out on pre release months before, what is truly staggering is that he was released and the crime was committed on the prison doorstep so to speak, with national press coverage and no prison staff gave it a thought.
would JC be stupid enough to plan an abduction while still technically in custody. if he knew SL and was planning on snatching her shortly after his release, then that is pure stupidity, which is ironic because if it was JC, then he pulled off the perfect crime.
 
  • #602
38 years on, I'm not sure occams razor applies in this case JMO
occams razor does apply to this case, its other people who make it complicated.
 
  • #603
would JC be stupid enough to plan an abduction while still technically in custody. if he knew SL and was planning on snatching her shortly after his release, then that is pure stupidity, which is ironic because if it was JC, then he pulled off the perfect crime.
Personally i think it was mg, and pow a distant second then maybe jc like many have said everything comes from mg all the detail and leading the neighbour in their conversation was very compelling, right down to hanging around that night with dl in the search ( huntley and many others do the same) and just thinking about that, after the search was over for the night i guess if mg had anyone to answer to about getting home late he could just say he was assisting dl in the search and therefore has an open timeline to dispose of sjl
 
  • #604
Personally i think it was mg, and pow a distant second then maybe jc like many have said everything comes from mg all the detail and leading the neighbour in their conversation was very compelling, right down to hanging around that night with dl in the search ( huntley and many others do the same) and just thinking about that, after the search was over for the night i guess if mg had anyone to answer to about getting home late he could just say he was assisting dl in the search and therefore has an open timeline to dispose of sjl
I thought MG was having lunch with his boss at the time SL went missing ?
 
  • #605
would JC be stupid enough to plan an abduction while still technically in custody. if he knew SL and was planning on snatching her shortly after his release, then that is pure stupidity, which is ironic because if it was JC, then he pulled off the perfect crime.
IMO he was extremely stupid and didn't care if he was still technically in custody. He knew that nobody would be monitoring him in London.

I'm not sure if he actually planned to snatch Suzy. I think his plan was to seduce/charm/impress her, and he became enraged when she rejected or ridiculed him.
 
  • #606
I thought MG was having lunch with his boss at the time SL went missing ?
We know he had a meeting because he told us that, i guess he told us what he did and where he was all day, but that is fine then, if mg says that is what happened then it must have been played out just like mg said !
I also think bw was mistaken as she said “i am sure it was suzy” even though sjl was facing the passenger in conversation, so she never actually saw her face.
 
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  • #607
We know he had a meeting because he told us that, i guess he told us what he did and where he was all day, but that is fine then, if mg says that is what happened then it must have been played out just like mg said !
I also think bw was mistaken as she said “i am sure it was suzy” even though sjl was facing the passenger in conversation, so she never actually saw her face.
 
  • #608
We could believe sjl car could have been at 123 sr even earlier say when the office junior went to lunch which sjl had to wait for so she could leave which in itself is strange as she had a meeting to attend
 
  • #609
We know he had a meeting because he told us that, i guess he told us what he did and where he was all day, but that is fine then, if mg says that is what happened then it must have been played out just like mg said !
I also think bw was mistaken as she said “i am sure it was suzy” even though sjl was facing the passenger in conversation, so she never actually saw her face.
i think MG was at his desk when SL took the keys to 37SRD. i think he went to lunch later.
 
  • #610
My final theory on this case (having read books & looked at all the evidence out there and the chaotic first days of the police investigation....... and DL hijacking the inquiry taking to witnesses like WJ before the police did) plus considering information discussed in these threads ..........is as follows - this my opinion !

The police missed so much in the first 24 hours - questions weren't asked that should have been .....

There was no appointment - SJL made that up to leave the office and to attend to a personal matter possibly re the diary or meeting up with someone she knew , this was something she intended to do quickly as she didn't take her handbag ....she did not take keys of details to 37SR as there was no appt ( she made it up so she could have an excuse to leave the office without questions ...otherwise she would have been manning the office ...... evidence of this in DV's investigation / Finding SUZY book) ***The 37 SR appointment - Mr Kipper was written by her in her diary near lunchtime when she realised the big boss was around as he was lunching with MG and had popped into the office before that lunch.She had to nip out and invented a reason.

Who knows what happened next it is unknown- could be something at POW re collecting diary etc

Her car was dumped in Stevenage Rd in a hurry ...not by her...... at some point . it was dumped outside a Sturgis property deliberately so that it thew the investigation ( as I believe Suzy met her demise somewhere different )

* The location of the car in Stevenage Rd is very close to sighting by BW in FPR so that could still be relevant...

* WL is adamant she witnessed the white fiesta correctly- with reg ending in GAN and this fits with where it was found.
 
  • #611
i think MG was at his desk when SL took the keys to 37SRD. i think he went to lunch later.
Very strange on the crimewatch reconstruction mg states he went round to 37 shorrolds and it shows him tapping on the door and trying to look in the windows but on record he checked inside and out.
My final theory on this case (having read books & looked at all the evidence out there and the chaotic first days of the police investigation....... and DL hijacking the inquiry taking to witnesses like WJ before the police did) plus considering information discussed in these threads ..........is as follows - this my opinion !

The police missed so much in the first 24 hours - questions weren't asked that should have been .....

There was no appointment - SJL made that up to leave the office and to attend to a personal matter possibly re the diary or meeting up with someone she knew , this was something she intended to do quickly as she didn't take her handbag ....she did not take keys of details to 37SR as there was no appt ( she made it up so she could have an excuse to leave the office without questions ...otherwise she would have been manning the office ...... evidence of this in DV's investigation / Finding SUZY book) ***The 37 SR appointment - Mr Kipper was written by her in her diary near lunchtime when she realised the big boss was around as he was lunching with MG and had popped into the office before that lunch.She had to nip out and invented a reason.

Who knows what happened next it is unknown- could be something at POW re collecting diary etc

Her car was dumped in Stevenage Rd in a hurry ...not by her...... at some point . it was dumped outside a Sturgis property deliberately so that it thew the investigation ( as I believe Suzy met her demise somewhere different )

* The location of the car in Stevenage Rd is very close to sighting by BW in FPR so that could still be relevant...

* WL is adamant she witnessed the white fiesta correctly- with reg ending in GAN and this fits with where it was found.
sturgis had other white fiestas most likely ending in gan too
 
  • #612
My final theory on this case (having read books & looked at all the evidence out there and the chaotic first days of the police investigation....... and DL hijacking the inquiry taking to witnesses like WJ before the police did) plus considering information discussed in these threads ..........is as follows - this my opinion !

The police missed so much in the first 24 hours - questions weren't asked that should have been .....

There was no appointment - SJL made that up to leave the office and to attend to a personal matter possibly re the diary or meeting up with someone she knew , this was something she intended to do quickly as she didn't take her handbag ....she did not take keys of details to 37SR as there was no appt ( she made it up so she could have an excuse to leave the office without questions ...otherwise she would have been manning the office ...... evidence of this in DV's investigation / Finding SUZY book) ***The 37 SR appointment - Mr Kipper was written by her in her diary near lunchtime when she realised the big boss was around as he was lunching with MG and had popped into the office before that lunch.She had to nip out and invented a reason.

Who knows what happened next it is unknown- could be something at POW re collecting diary etc

Her car was dumped in Stevenage Rd in a hurry ...not by her...... at some point . it was dumped outside a Sturgis property deliberately so that it thew the investigation ( as I believe Suzy met her demise somewhere different )

* The location of the car in Stevenage Rd is very close to sighting by BW in FPR so that could still be relevant...

* WL is adamant she witnessed the white fiesta correctly- with reg ending in GAN and this fits with where it was found.
If we stick to the facts and follow your theory that suzy made up the appointment at 37 then that only leaves one definate option and that was to collect her diary the collection of the disry is the only thing that was sure to happen at some point and the 123 sr is basically the furthest point from the pow leaving the lowest amount of houses the perp would have to walk past to return(just following the river footpath)
 
  • #613
If we stick to the facts and follow your theory that suzy made up the appointment at 37 then that only leaves one definate option and that was to collect her diary the collection of the disry is the only thing that was sure to happen at some point and the 123 sr is basically the furthest point from the pow leaving the lowest amount of houses the perp would have to walk past to return(just following the river footpath)
Were there any viewings at 123 sr that day also?
 
  • #614
Were there any viewings at 123 sr that day also?
No WJ is on record and her husband saying no viewings planned or happened
 
  • #615
If we stick to the facts and follow your theory that suzy made up the appointment at 37 then that only leaves one definate option and that was to collect her diary the collection of the disry is the only thing that was sure to happen at some point and the 123 sr is basically the furthest point from the pow leaving the lowest amount of houses the perp would have to walk past to return(just following the river footpath)
I think this is what most likely happened
 
  • #616
We know he had a meeting because he told us that, i guess he told us what he did and where he was all day, but that is fine then, if mg says that is what happened then it must have been played out just like mg said !
I also think bw was mistaken as she said “i am sure it was suzy” even though sjl was facing the passenger in conversation, so she never actually saw her face.
No, we know he had a meeting because he was with his colleagues and company boss from head office in a wine bar in full view of their other customers and staff. Police interviewed him and checked alibis of everyone.

You are essentially arguing for a conspiracy involving all of the staff of the branch of Sturgis and the head office boss, that somehow evaded the police.
 
  • #617
Its a shame B396GAN is not still in existence today in some police storage facility as evidence as I'm sure more evidence may be able to be extracted from it with modern forensics that are much improved from 1986 - this car was presumably scrapped in 1990 as this is the last year it is on record with DVLA...Sturgis was sold out to Prudential in 1988 so I wonder what happened to this and other Sturgis fleet fiestas?
 
  • #618
I think this is what most likely happened
It's a possibility, but going to collect the diary wouldn't necessarily have been Suzy's main priority that lunchtime. We just don't know.
 
  • #619
The car still exists in police hands. It was recently revisited for further forensics. What is utterly bewildering is that it was taxed and MoT'ed until 1990. This says that it was maintained in a driveable road legal condition for four years after it featured in a crime, and was presumably driven. You have to wonder WTF that was all about. It's as though a gun were retrieved from a crime scene and then issued to a police firearms unit for them to fire off for a few years.

On a detail point, it doesn't follow that all Fiestas leased by Sturgis ended in GAN. I bought a new Ford in December 1985 and the dealer asked me what number I fancied on it: C920 HOT? C920 HOX? C920 HOW? I didn't realise the dealer had any discretion, but he explained that they had a range of them allocated to the dealership geographically. The 700 to 900s, I think, meant the West Midlands, while the letter combinations were to specific dealerships. That one had Hs that month. So C9xx Hxx meant Hangers of Birmingham.

If you think about it, this makes perfect sense from a DVLA (then DVLC) perspective. They've got to apportion the numbers from C111 AAA to C999 ZZZ somehow, so why not like that? They tell the dealer Here, use these numbers, and tell us which you use. They then know not only what's been issued, but also, who's got what plate that hasn't yet been issued.

Conceivably LE could find it useful, if they later become interested in a vehicle. They'd know if it's from outside their area, and if they find a car of interest, they could even go to the dealer who originally attached the plate and ask them if they remember the buyer, for example (did he look like Mr Kipper? Quick, nick Paul Young now!)

This is also why I am doubtful about there being any special significance to Cannan's made-up SLP 386L plate. As someone who'd been in the trade, he'd be aware of how plates worked and he might simply have been approximating a commonplace number / letter sequence for Bristol.
 
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  • #620
No, we know he had a meeting because he was with his colleagues and company boss from head office in a wine bar in full view of their other customers and staff. Police interviewed him and checked alibis of everyone.

You are essentially arguing for a conspiracy involving all of the staff of the branch of Sturgis and the head office boss, that somehow evaded the police.
 
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