UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Kasparthecat1]

SB was probably scared to death. compliant. that is how he got her back to foye house.

Sure. I'm thinking more in terms of how he wasn't seen by someone.

 

[SteveH]

One word in defence of the woman who many years later said she saw JC looking in the window of Sturgis on the Sunday, the day before Suzy disappeared. Given the huge and immediate media interest in the case, and given the fact that it happened in Fulham, if the woman was a local she might well have remembered the near coincidence in timing of the two events.

Although this info only came to public attention much later, after the new police investigation, did she in fact first contact the police in 1986? We simply don't know, and given the seemingly multiple police -ups, it seems quite possible that she did. But it's the sort of thing people remember for years, although of course the memory often plays tricks.

I, for example, can remember exactly what I was doing at lunchtime on Wednesday 17 August 1983. My memory of it is excellent. I was having lunch on a terrace outside a motel with a Canadian couple (the woman was a news anchor in Saskatchewan), a young Californian bloke from Berkeley, and an English woman from Hertfordshire. I don't keep a diary by the way. I can picture the scene clearly. I was having trouble with the zip on my windcheater, and the others found this hilarious. In the morning the Californian and I had climbed Uluru (Ayers Rock) - it wasn't controversial then, but it is banned now.

I wouldn't know the precise date of all this except for one thing. We had stayed in the Inland Motel the night before. I was in the bar until the early hours. We left to go back to Alice Springs that afternoon. In Alice that night a woman was killed in a hit-and-run right outside the campsite where I had pitched my tent. I heard the bang but didn't realise the seriousness of the event until later, in the morning. But I still wouldn't have been able to tell you the date 40+ years on as this event has no record on the internet that I can find.

However there was another incident back at the Inland Motel the same night, in the early hours of 18 August. I can check the date of this on Wikipedia:

"Douglas John Edward Crabbe (born 1947) is an Australian murderer currently imprisoned in Perth for a multiple murder which occurred when he drove his 25-tonne Mack truck into the crowded bar of a motel [ie the Inland] at the base of Uluru (Ayers Rock) on 18 August 1983. Five people were killed and sixteen seriously injured."

Douglas Crabbe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I turned my radio on in my tent to catch the morning news and wondered why they were talking about the exact place I had been the previous day. Of course with the full shocking story emerging quite soon I can remember the events of the 18th August even more clearly than those of the 17th,

Not sure if I could remember too well exactly what all the people I encountered at the motel looked like, even the ones I spent some time with, but I do have a vague image of many of them I'll talk to anybody when I've had a few drinks so there were quite a few conversations. I certainly don't remember seeing Crabbe.

EDIT The censored word isn't as rude as you might think!

 

[lee sumner]

Sure. I'm thinking more in terms of how he wasn't seen by someone.

true. he was taking a big risk taking her there.

 

[lee sumner]

One word in defence of the woman who many years later said she saw JC looking in the window of Sturgis on the Sunday, the day before Suzy disappeared. Given the huge and immediate media interest in the case, and given the fact that it happened in Fulham, if the woman was a local she might well have remembered the near coincidence in timing of the two events.

Although this info only came to public attention much later, after the new police investigation, did she in fact first contact the police in 1986? We simply don't know, and given the seemingly multiple police -ups, it seems quite possible that she did. But it's the sort of thing people remember for years, although of course the memory often plays tricks.

I, for example, can remember exactly what I was doing at lunchtime on Wednesday 17 August 1983. My memory of it is excellent. I was having lunch on a terrace outside a motel with a Canadian couple (the woman was a news anchor in Saskatchewan), a young Californian bloke from Berkeley, and an English woman from Hertfordshire. I don't keep a diary by the way. I can picture the scene clearly. I was having trouble with the zip on my windcheater, and the others found this hilarious. In the morning the Californian and I had climbed Uluru (Ayers Rock) - it wasn't controversial then, but it is banned now.

I wouldn't know the precise date of all this except for one thing. We had stayed in the Inland Motel the night before. I was in the bar until the early hours. We left to go back to Alice Springs that afternoon. In Alice that night a woman was killed in a hit-and-run right outside the campsite where I had pitched my tent. I heard the bang but didn't realise the seriousness of the event until later, in the morning. But I still wouldn't have been able to tell you the date 40+ years on as this event has no record on the internet that I can find.

However there was another incident back at the Inland Motel the same night, in the early hours of 18 August. I can check the date of this on Wikipedia:

"Douglas John Edward Crabbe (born 1947) is an Australian murderer currently imprisoned in Perth for a multiple murder which occurred when he drove his 25-tonne Mack truck into the crowded bar of a motel [ie the Inland] at the base of Uluru (Ayers Rock) on 18 August 1983. Five people were killed and sixteen seriously injured."

Douglas Crabbe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I turned my radio on in my tent to catch the morning news and wondered why they were talking about the exact place I had been the previous day. Of course with the full shocking story emerging quite soon I can remember the events of the 18th August even more clearly than those of the 17th,

Not sure if I could remember too well exactly what all the people I encountered at the motel looked like, even the ones I spent some time with, but I do have a vague image of many of them I'll talk to anybody when I've had a few drinks so there were quite a few conversations. I certainly don't remember seeing Crabbe.

EDIT The censored word isn't as rude as you might think!

sturgis would have been closed on a sunday, so the lady witness is telling lies.

 

[tes1984]

what i mean is he was not planning on hanging around london looking for an woman to abduct. he wanted to go straight home to his mothers, which makes me wonder did he do that.

I doubt if he wanted to go back to his mother's. He said he didn't want to have to explain himself to people around Sutton Coldfield who knew him. More likely IMO that he was scared of being attacked if someone recognised him.

 

[tes1984]

SB was probably scared to death. compliant. that is how he got her back to foye house.

It's possible that SB went there willingly. We don't know for certain when JC turned nasty towards her.

 

[tes1984]

sturgis would have been closed on a sunday, so the lady witness is telling lies.

You can still look at the property adverts in the window, regardless of whether an estate agents is open or not.

 

[rvlvr]

You can still look at the property adverts in the window, regardless of whether an estate agents is open or not.

Wasn’t her testimony though that ‘Cannan’ was supposedly looking *through* the window ie to see who was inside, rather than merely checking out listings? That’s the only way it could seem vaguely suspicious I think, but even then it could be innocently explained.

 

[WestLondoner]

If it's suspicious to look through an estate agent's window there's a crime wave going on all around us.

 

[WestLondoner]

double post

 

[lee sumner]

You can still look at the property adverts in the window, regardless of whether an estate agents is open or not.

yes, but would JC be looking into an office where there is no staff. he would want to eye up women EA, not look at for sale adverts.

 

[lee sumner]

I doubt if he wanted to go back to his mother's. He said he didn't want to have to explain himself to people around Sutton Coldfield who knew him. More likely IMO that he was scared of being attacked if someone recognised him.

true. JC does not appear to learn from his mistakes. when caught at lemington spa. i think he was going to rape the 2 women shop workers. this offence would have been a mirror of the rape he carried out in 1981, which he served 5 yrs for. only a idiot would try it twice, and get caught both times.

 

[rvlvr]

Hadn't thought of this but it strikes me as quite plausible. If the women in the reconstruction are the actual people who were there on 28/7/86, then all of them are young and all of them pleasant-looking. He could have figured yeah, any of them would be fine, and if it's a bloke, try again elsewhere.


All true, but I suggest it essentially because what they actually did was even more arduous while also far less likely to be productive: they tried to identify every male contact who was in Fulham that day. So this was a lot more people, none of whom is a known offender of this type; they're all lawyers and surveyors and accountants and whatnot. If you can't eliminate 50 of them what would make you suspect #17 more than #45? Sure enough, this did not work.

What they could have done is interrogate some of these alibis more thoroughly at the outset, using then-available information to check them. For instance, did the 100 ex-cons draw money from a cashpoint? Did they phone anyone? Did they park a car anywhere? What street? - checkable (if done soon) stuff like that which could put some men further away than others and hence render them less interesting.

If Cannan did this his alibi would likely have collapsed quite quickly, as would the later lies about never having been to Fulham. It's also been reported that in 1986 other EAs said they too had been contacted by a Mr Kipper - if so, had they ever met him? I.e. Cannan could have been put on an ID parade in August 1986. If a POI, then the police could look at known associates. An inquiry at the prison would have told them about Taggart, as indeed might the Southampton car park stub Cannan still had the following year. An inquiry at Superhire would have surfaced the co-workers who later turned up on TV. And so on. Yes, it's a lot of work, but is it more work than what they actually did instead?

Perhaps you’re right, but I think there’s a danger of us working backwards with the benefit of hindsight.

I don’t think police were drawing up offender profiles back in ‘86 but let’s for argument’s sake say Suzy was abducted and killed by a person unknown to her, who left almost no trace, then I think it’d be reasonable for police, based on the way the supposed crime was committed, to assume certain things about this person, and I’m not sure Cannan - as dangerous as he clearly was - would’ve appeared to be a good fit, given his criminal record at that point suggested he was a pretty common or garden sexual predator with a propensity for getting caught.

Even if they’d thought his alibi wasn’t watertight I suspect at most they’d have spoken briefly to the hostel - given he was released as planned I doubt they’d have reported anything noteworthy - and possibly to Superhire too; his boss spoke to DV and recalled Cannan being a good employee (this was supported by the reference Cannan received from the company on the Friday) and he’d likely have told police the same thing. There’s little here to get the hairs on the back of your neck standing up, imo.

But yes, it’s a fair argument that the original investigation seemed to be quite laborious, to the point where maybe other more fruitful avenues of inquiry weren’t pursued.