UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

What's interesting about SB's mini, is that her driver's door was jammed, and she had to get in and out of her car via the passenger side.

So IF Cannan abducted her in her mini, she wouldn't have been able to get out of her car via her own driver's door. She would be physically trapped if Cannan sat in the passenger seat.

IMO, there's a chance that Cannan already knew that her door was jammed, because he may have witnessed her getting out of her car via the passenger side prior to her going to the shops.

He then just needed to wait for her to go back to the car park, and choose his moment to strike.

RB knew JC from Avon Gorge hotel bar by sight at least & I think was on nodding terms. There are articles that say SB knew him & good evidence, at least, to say at least mildly acquainted.

That’s enough to offer him a lift home I think. Especially if he was charming & explained car trouble, might explain thumb print if she came inside willingly at first too? This is quite hard to explain. It was a document about him hiring a PI to spy on AR & would sound loud alarm bells. Why was she rummaging in his monk’s chest (if this is where doc was originally - where it was later)?

Great point on jammed door.

 

[lee sumner]

"Serious allegations" sounds a bit more than "had a few boyfriends on the go" to be honest.

i agree. i wonder what AS found out about SL. what was it he could not put in his book.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

SC murder took place on may 3rd, which just happened to be SL 25TH birthday. what a strange coincidence.

Yes - she was going away with a man but she cancelled at last minute - if article I found accurate. At the last minute we have her headed to Wales with her cousins & family instead.

We all know JC’s MO if rejected.

 

[Rookie D]

There’s a lot to point her going willingly with JC perhaps at first, not least as no one at his flats saw or heard anything untoward.

Except for the witness Amelia Hart, who was adamant that whilst sitting in traffic in her car, heard an argument, and then turned her head to witness a man resembling JC assaulting a woman in a small wooded area in Leigh Woods, close to the flats in which JC lived.

The man was heard to say to the woman he was assaulting; "I told you what would happen!" followed by a choking sound and the woman say "No, no!"

The man then saw Amelia watching him and stopped, and then walked towards Amelia, but he stopped by the road side with his body facing away from her, but his head bent forward and tilted to the side. He looked directly at Amelia as the traffic cleared and she drove forwards.

Amelia's story wasn't believed by the police, and they dismissed her as a credible witness.

Which again, doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

It's likely IMO that Amelia saw JC assault SB, but having seen her watching him, JC couldn't then kill her on the 8th, and so had to change his plan and instead took SB back into his flat and kept her prisoner overnight.
He then made her call work the next morning, before driving her to the west country and killing her.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

it mentions black knickers being found. with SB her murder was brutal and clumsy. evidence left behind. rock with blood and hair near her body, and underwear lying close by. JC did not appear to make any effort to conceal her body, but were supposed to believe this is the same man who made SL disappear into thin air 1 yr earlier.

Agree on his MO.

He was a little bit careful with deposition though as he picked a particularly hard to access remote spot. It took more than six months for anyone to find her body.

 

[lee sumner]

This is what I think, based on some of the things that AS did get into his book. Lucie Blackman type work, but perhaps not so overt, perhaps connected to PSS. Being a posh, good looking, fun companion for, say, an Arab sheikh. How did she get into the Saudi expo early? People with money and connections, perhaps not residents in the UK so harder to trace especially if names not spelled out in book or she used codes or pseudonyms. Like Kipper. Perhaps. JMO etc of course.

the info held back by AS really makes SL look even more mysterious. she obviously knew how to compartmentalize her life.

 

[lee sumner]

RB knew JC from Avon Gorge hotel bar by sight at least & I think was on nodding terms. There are articles that say SB knew him & good evidence, at least, to say at least mildly acquainted.

That’s enough to offer him a lift home I think. Especially if he was charming & explained car trouble, might explain thumb print if she came inside willingly at first too? This is quite hard to explain. It was a document about him hiring a PI to spy on AR & would sound loud alarm bells. Why was she rummaging in his monk’s chest (if this is where doc was originally - where it was later)?

Great point on jammed door.

the faulty car door would have trapped SB in her own car. she could not escape even if she wanted to.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes - she was going away with a man but she cancelled at last minute - if article I found accurate. At the last minute we have her headed to Wales with her cousins & family instead.

We all know JC’s MO if rejected.

yes, as she opened her presents in wales DL said it was pouring down rain all day long.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Except for the witness Amelia Hart, who was adamant that whilst sitting in traffic in her car, heard an argument, and then turned her head to witness a man resembling JC assaulting a woman in a small wooded area in Leigh Woods, close to the flats in which JC lived.

The man was heard to say to the woman he was assaulting; "I told you what would happen!" followed by a choking sound and the woman say "No, no!"

The man then saw Amelia watching him and stopped, and then walked towards Amelia, but he stopped by the road side with his body facing away from her, but his head bent forward and tilted to the side. He looked directly at Amelia as the traffic cleared and she drove forwards.

Amelia's story wasn't believed by the police, and they dismissed her as a credible witness.

Which again, doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

It's likely IMO that Amelia saw JC assault SB, but having seen her watching him, JC couldn't then kill her on the 8th, and so had to change his plan and instead took SB back into his flat and kept her prisoner overnight.
He then made her call work the next morning, before driving her to the west country and killing her.

Yes. Agree on Hart story being very credible indeed but I didn’t think she witnessed on same day SB went missing (?) - Thurs 8 October in eve.

Yes, just checked was witnessed by AH on Friday 9 October 1987 at 2:15pm. So it’s a fit then for a polite lift back on Thurs eve & things taking a sinister turn…perhaps?

Was she already wearing new dress by then & if so, why was TopShop bag - originally in her car - in BMW passenger footwell? Did he make her change in that condition (!) at Dead Woman’s Ditch where he sounds frenzied.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

yes, as she opened her presents in wales DL said it was pouring down rain all day long.

I think May 86 may be important. We see JC beginning to spend a lot more, we have him poss in receipt of Dad’s legacy, we have the ‘scary’ date…& on SL’s B Day weekend we have SL rejecting someone & SC dead.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes. Agree on Hart story being very credible indeed but I didn’t think she witnessed on same day SB went missing (?) - Thurs 8 October in eve.

Yes, just checked was witnessed by AH on Friday 9 October 1987 at 2:15pm. So it’s a fit then for a polite lift back on Thurs eve & things taking a sinister turn…perhaps?

Was she already wearing new dress by then & if so, why was TopShop bag - originally in her car - in BMW passenger footwell? Did he make her change in that condition (!) at Dead Woman’s Ditch where he sounds frenzied.

i think JC forced SB to put on her new dress for his own sexual gratification. probably part of his sick fantasy. buttons were also ripped from the dress near where she was found.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

"Yes. Agree on Hart story being very credible indeed but I didn’t think she witnessed on same day SB went missing (?) - Thurs 8 October in eve." (From Lady S-W posted above).

I'm not sure about this Mrs Hart. I know the police were sceptical, but she was deemed credible enough to be called as a witness (we can only surmise what the jury made of it...).

Her husband didn't see or hear anything, and iirc having seen this "struggle" they just carried on with their day...I can't remember though when Mrs Hart actually came forward, or if I'm missing something...haven't read the book in a while.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Yes, the Grand Union Canal in Brentford.

A witness was adamant that he witnessed John Cannan deposit a suitcase into the canal 3 days after SL went missing.

The witness is now deceased, but it weighed heavily on him and he was 100% certain that he saw JC by that canal.

The police didn't believe him

Which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I am torn on canal sighting.

It does fit with the first credible sighting/s of JC approx back in Birmingham. It allows for a few days SL imprisonment. The witness, & we’ve no reason to disbelieve his friends, travelled especially to JC trial (SB) a long way, time & effort (!) to eyeball JC so disturbed was he that he was sitting, unbelieved, with knowledge of JC’s killer (!) He was then even more convinced! The police were not. Early hours of morning too on dump - odd if a random person?

Easy to drive up to canal & he had cases on wheels poss via SuperHire.

JD says he’d have had canal searched if he’d been in charge then. It has been said that impossible for her not to be discovered if dumped here due to canal depth? But someone posted credibly here on canal being unusual dimensionally/depth/flow to make plausible ? Others say canal sifted/dredged etc since so any case & remains found (?)

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

i think JC forced SB to put on her new dress for his own sexual gratification. probably part of his sick fantasy. buttons were also ripped from the dress near where she was found.

Yes - good point on ripped buttons but odd faff to carry dress quite a way minus the carrier bag? SB if AH to be believed will have been barely able to walk never mind change. But as you say maybe MO, unfortunately…

 

[lee sumner]

Except for the witness Amelia Hart, who was adamant that whilst sitting in traffic in her car, heard an argument, and then turned her head to witness a man resembling JC assaulting a woman in a small wooded area in Leigh Woods, close to the flats in which JC lived.

The man was heard to say to the woman he was assaulting; "I told you what would happen!" followed by a choking sound and the woman say "No, no!"

The man then saw Amelia watching him and stopped, and then walked towards Amelia, but he stopped by the road side with his body facing away from her, but his head bent forward and tilted to the side. He looked directly at Amelia as the traffic cleared and she drove forwards.

Amelia's story wasn't believed by the police, and they dismissed her as a credible witness.

Which again, doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

It's likely IMO that Amelia saw JC assault SB, but having seen her watching him, JC couldn't then kill her on the 8th, and so had to change his plan and instead took SB back into his flat and kept her prisoner overnight.
He then made her call work the next morning, before driving her to the west country and killing her.

he snatched SB the night after he failed to snatch JH. so there is obviously premeditated planning involved. he is organized to a certain degree, but then he becomes reckless and clumsy during the murder and does not conceal her body very well.

 

[Rookie D]

What's particularly odd about the police essentially dismissing the Brentford canal sighting as a viable deposition site for SL, is that the location of Gallows Bridge is situated south of the lock where the GUC meets the river Brent.

In other words, the section of waterway in which the man claimed to have witnessed JC dumping a suitcase, forms part of the River Brent and not actually the Canal which connects with the river further north.

So, if the case was dumped in the River, then it may have acted differently in terms of currents and depth.

Did the police do a thorough enough job to search for SL in the river Brent?


The river feeds into the Thames further south.

What's also interesting, is that Gallows bridge is easily accessed via the A4 road, which joins the Fulham Palace Road further east.

So it may be possible that after JC took SL to a lock up/empty flat etc..., he then killed her and shoved her into a suitcase, and then drove her north up Fulham Palace road, turned left onto the A4, but instead of joining the M4 motorway, he stayed on the A4, and then took the side road, parked up, and then quickly accessed the river Brent close to the Gallows bridge, by walking along the grand union canal walkway.

He could then run back up to the side road, and then turn directly back onto the A4.

Just a theory of course

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

"Yes. Agree on Hart story being very credible indeed but I didn’t think she witnessed on same day SB went missing (?) - Thurs 8 October in eve." (From Lady S-W posted above).

I'm not sure about this Mrs Hart. I know the police were sceptical, but she was deemed credible enough to be called as a witness (we can only surmise what the jury made of it...).

Her husband didn't see or hear anything, and iirc having seen this "struggle" they just carried on with their day...I can't remember though when Mrs Hart actually came forward, or if I'm missing something...haven't read the book in a while.

Wasn’t husband deaf (?) will look back..,

He said ‘COW!’ to her when she looked at lights which is very JC…

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

he snatched SB the night after he failed to snatch JH. so there is obviously premeditated planning involved. he is organized to a certain degree, but then he becomes reckless and clumsy during the murder and does not conceal her body very well.

I agree but re: his MO it takes 6 months to find. If any other person conceals body well surprising anyone found. Interesting.

 

[Rookie D]

Yes. Agree on Hart story being very credible indeed but I didn’t think she witnessed on same day SB went missing (?) - Thurs 8 October in eve.

Yes, just checked was witnessed by AH on Friday 9 October 1987 at 2:15pm. So it’s a fit then for a polite lift back on Thurs eve & things taking a sinister turn…perhaps?

Was she already wearing new dress by then & if so, why was TopShop bag - originally in her car - in BMW passenger footwell? Did he make her change in that condition (!) at Dead Woman’s Ditch where he sounds frenzied.

Ah yes, my apologies, you are absolutely right!

Amelia witnessed the assault on the day AFTER SB was abducted.

In that case, Amelia may have well seen JC strangle SB to the point she passed out.

After Amelia saw him, he may have quickly bundled her into his car, and then driven her westwards.

She may have come around during the car journey and wondered where she was and where she was going.

Did JC feel he needed to get SB as far away from Leigh Woods as possible because Amelia saw him?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Ah yes, my apologies, you are absolutely right!

Amelia witnessed the assault on the day AFTER SB was abducted.

In that case, Amelia may have well seen JC strangle SB to the point she passed out.

After Amelia saw him, he may have quickly bundled her into his car, and then driven her westwards.

She may have come around during the car journey and wondered where she was and where she was going.

Did JC feel he needed to get SB as far away from Leigh Woods as possible because Amelia saw him?

I really think everything points to SB giving JC a friendly lift originally. They knew each other by sight almost certainly & possibly better.