UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[lee sumner]

It takes only 2 and a half minutes to walk from 49 Disraeli Road to the POW.

Walking at pace. and with purpose, it could take as little as 2 minutes.

With heels on, SL could have walked it in 3 minutes.


If the personal items were so important to her, then why not go and get them before she started work?

The drive only around 1 minute, but due to parking, it would have been quicker to walk.

It's clear that she either wasn't that concerned about her personal items, she had no idea she had lost them, or she knew she had lost them, but had no idea where they were.

To say that she knew she had lost personal items, and they were important enough for her to go and get them asap, just doesn't make sense.

The walk from the flat to the pub, is just over 200 meters.


I guess the issue is that the pub wouldn't have been open at that time of the morning.


However, the apparent 6pm timing doesn't make sense either, because she had a viewing at 6pm in Waldemar Avenue.

It would be interesting to know WHEN that Waldemar Avenue meeting had been arranged?

Could that have been an appointment arranged on the morning of the 28th July when SL got into work?

Could SL have intentionally planned to go and collect her items from the pub at 6pm after she had finished work?

What was her usual finishing time at work?

If the Waldemar Avenue viewing had indeed come in at the last minute, then the woman on the phone may have requested a 6pm viewing, and SL may have then chosen to prioritize her work, instead of her need to go and get her items from the pub at 6pm.

Considering the property in Waldemar Avenue was arguably her biggest job of the day, it would have made sense for SL to have delayed her going to the pub in favour of seeing her client in Waldemar Avenue.

But if that's the case, did SL call the pub to delay her going there to pick up her items?

It seems not.

So what's going on here?

Why have a 6pm appointment, but then arrange to pick her personal items up from the pub at the exact same time of 6pm?


Couldn't SL have asked a family member/work colleague/friend/flatmate/bf/lover, to go and collect her personal items from the pub on her behalf?

And in terms of the 6pm viewing; could SL have been abducted much later than is believed?

Was SL alive and well, but was abducted just before or after 6pm?

Could the Waldemar Avenue viewing combined with the POW, be more significant in terms of her disappearance, than the meeting of Mr Kipper in Shorrolds Road?

All conjecture and supposition on my part of course.

thank you. i said the same about SL picking up her lost items. she was not in a hurry to collect them, if she was she would not have agreed to pick them up at 6PM on the way home from work.

 

[lee sumner]

It takes only 2 and a half minutes to walk from 49 Disraeli Road to the POW.

Walking at pace. and with purpose, it could take as little as 2 minutes.

With heels on, SL could have walked it in 3 minutes.


If the personal items were so important to her, then why not go and get them before she started work?

The drive only around 1 minute, but due to parking, it would have been quicker to walk.

It's clear that she either wasn't that concerned about her personal items, she had no idea she had lost them, or she knew she had lost them, but had no idea where they were.

To say that she knew she had lost personal items, and they were important enough for her to go and get them asap, just doesn't make sense.

The walk from the flat to the pub, is just over 200 meters.


I guess the issue is that the pub wouldn't have been open at that time of the morning.


However, the apparent 6pm timing doesn't make sense either, because she had a viewing at 6pm in Waldemar Avenue.

It would be interesting to know WHEN that Waldemar Avenue meeting had been arranged?

Could that have been an appointment arranged on the morning of the 28th July when SL got into work?

Could SL have intentionally planned to go and collect her items from the pub at 6pm after she had finished work?

What was her usual finishing time at work?

If the Waldemar Avenue viewing had indeed come in at the last minute, then the woman on the phone may have requested a 6pm viewing, and SL may have then chosen to prioritize her work, instead of her need to go and get her items from the pub at 6pm.

Considering the property in Waldemar Avenue was arguably her biggest job of the day, it would have made sense for SL to have delayed her going to the pub in favour of seeing her client in Waldemar Avenue.

But if that's the case, did SL call the pub to delay her going there to pick up her items?

It seems not.

So what's going on here?

Why have a 6pm appointment, but then arrange to pick her personal items up from the pub at the exact same time of 6pm?


Couldn't SL have asked a family member/work colleague/friend/flatmate/bf/lover, to go and collect her personal items from the pub on her behalf?

And in terms of the 6pm viewing; could SL have been abducted much later than is believed?

Was SL alive and well, but was abducted just before or after 6pm?

Could the Waldemar Avenue viewing combined with the POW, be more significant in terms of her disappearance, than the meeting of Mr Kipper in Shorrolds Road?

All conjecture and supposition on my part of course.

6PM, viewing with joanna 43 waldermar. after this appointment SL has finished work and will make her way home. its then she will call at the POW to pick up her lost items. its obvious to me anyway that SL was happy to collect her lost items in the early evening after she finished work between 6PM/7PM. she was not in a hurry to collect her lost items.

 

[lee sumner]

It’s a tricky one. Would he actually have been aware of the HFS rapes to begin with? It seems they got a fair bit of news coverage at the time, so perhaps. But would he have been thinking of them so many years later? The wearing of a helmet as a disguise isn’t uncommon either.

I think the problem with Cannan is it’s difficult to say exactly what type of offender he was. I mean, in the Banks case, did he always intend to kill her? Even with his one confirmed murder what exactly happened isn’t clear cut.

He obviously was a fantasist in his ‘real’ life, so it seems reasonable to assume he had no original ideas of his own when it came to his criminal life too. But then that raises issues re Suzy’s case - was this a random abduction and murder (so fairly unoriginal) or was this a carefully thought out killing, the perfect crime? If the latter, he doesn’t strike me as particularly capable of pulling that off but if the former, well, with a bit of luck he perhaps made it look like the latter?

we dont even know if SL was the target. any female EA could have been the target. if so mr kipper would be watching from a car on shorrolds rd to see if a female EA turns up alone.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

KH did not speak to SL regarding her lost items, his wife did. DV just believes what KH tells him. occams principle way of thinking tells me SL was not in a hurry to get her lost items back. this is why DCI carter and his team did not search the POW, because they knew SL had never made it there. they knew she was collecting her lost items on the way home from work between 6PM and 7PM.

Yes, you’re right on KH’s wife. Also, of course we should sift what KH says but also consider & evaluate, keeping an open mind.

Occam’s Razor, in this scenario, speaks rather differently to me. She couldn’t say she was shooting out, when possible, to retrieve personal items as a very busy & unusual day, but to my mind that’s the extremely plausible reality.

We do know factually she had ‘sexual contacts’ distinct from lovers. We know AN was in this book who is well known for his fetishes and was a failed assassin. You’d not want to leave any book for too long with a landlord who may well have a snoop, human nature being what it is.

Diaries, contact books & notebooks were lifelines in the pre mobile phone era. Just as now, if we couldn’t disable our Iphone, leaving it free for any Tom, Dick or Harry to have a good read of all our personal whatsapp etc…Just not ideal! We’d just not leave it comfortably for hours in a stranger’s hands. Perhaps especially if we were as private and compartmentalised as SL.

 

[Konstantin]

Diaries, contact books & notebooks were lifelines in the pre mobile phone era. Just as now, if we couldn’t disable our Iphone, leaving it free for any Tom, Dick or Harry to have a good read of all our personal whatsapp etc…Just not ideal! We’d just not leave it comfortably for hours in a stranger’s hands. Perhaps especially if we were as private and compartmentalised as SL.

This is why, if she did lose it on the Friday - surely she must have told SOMEONE about it? She would have been pretty frantic, surely? Worrying about her chequebook as well? You could use cheques for payment less than a certain amount, couldn't you, without the guarantee card?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

This is why, if she did lose it on the Friday - surely she must have told SOMEONE about it? She would have been pretty frantic, surely? Worrying about her chequebook as well? You could use cheques for payment less than a certain amount, couldn't you, without the guarantee card?

Exactly. On all the evidence we now have, I think everything points to a Sunday loss.

 

[WestLondoner]

This is why, if she did lose it on the Friday - surely she must have told SOMEONE about it? She would have been pretty frantic, surely? Worrying about her chequebook as well? You could use cheques for payment less than a certain amount, couldn't you, without the guarantee card?

The guarantee card was usually for payments up to £50. Above that you'd have to wait for the cheque to clear.

 

[rvlvr]

we dont even know if SL was the target. any female EA could have been the target. if so mr kipper would be watching from a car on shorrolds rd to see if a female EA turns up alone.

Agreed. This is the biggest issue, for me, with trying to pin the case on anyone - what’s the case, exactly? We’ve really no idea.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Agreed. This is the biggest issue, for me, with trying to pin the case on anyone - what’s the case, exactly? We’ve really no idea.

The deal may be at the heart. It was unusual, shady & we do know she was being pressurised by someone.

 

[WestLondoner]

The idea that it's SJL is inferential, from the fact that she was the one who disappeared and had a complicated hinterland. It's conceivable - if a bit Agatha Christie - that all the other women in that office did too....

 

[kes1972]

fingerprint on letter, SC case. its not JC who left that print.

May have been his brief?

 

[kes1972]

A stopped clock is correct twice a day. People make mistakes, even killers. The fact that his MO was sloppy doesn't proclude the chance that he killed SJL and everything went right for him on that particular day.

More than likely sw

 

[kes1972]

why keep hold of SB mini car. lamplugh car ditched on stevenage rd. a man who sets a trap involving abduction and rape/murder would get rid of the car ASAP. there is nothing to link him to the vehicle so why hold on to it. lamplugh car abandoned by mr kipper, but SB mini car JC kept in the garage at foye house, where he lives. this does not sound like the same offender.

But perps do start off being ruthlessly methodical and more reckless as they get more confident with time as per jc

 

[kes1972]

true. if so i would love to know where that location was.

Superhire smallholding somewhere nearby??

 

[kes1972]

thank you. i said the same about SL picking up her lost items. she was not in a hurry to collect them, if she was she would not have agreed to pick them up at 6PM on the way home from work.

Then mg would be involved as he said he did the 6pm viewing? Explains 2nd fiesta at 37sr did sl get sent on a work related errand with a n other? If so explains purse being put in her car, was the detail in her desk diary arranged on the Friday?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

The idea that it's SJL is inferential, from the fact that she was the one who disappeared and had a complicated hinterland. It's conceivable - if a bit Agatha Christie - that all the other women in that office did

Then mg would be involved as he said he did the 6pm viewing? Explains 2nd fiesta at 37sr did sl get sent on a work related errand with a n other? If so explains purse being put in her car, was the detail in her desk diary arranged on the Friday?

MG was completely cleared. He & colleagues, also cleared, had no involvement whatsoever.

 

[lee sumner]

Agreed. This is the biggest issue, for me, with trying to pin the case on anyone - what’s the case, exactly? We’ve really no idea.

Agreed. This is the biggest issue, for me, with trying to pin the case on anyone - what’s the case, exactly? We’ve really no idea.

we need to go back to the start of investigation to try and answer these questions. most women are murdered by men they know, but with SL being an EA its part of her job to go off with strangers, and i wonder did a predator see this as a way to lure an attractive female EA into a trap.

 

[lee sumner]

But perps do start off being ruthlessly methodical and more reckless as they get more confident with time as per jc

he could have got lucky if he snatched SL, then got reckless when he took SB 1 year later.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I seem to recall that he had a couple of O levels, so not particularly "educated". (JMO). I feel he was able to a point to put on an air of an educated person by being well-spoken and seemingly articulate (until he gets caught out by his sedimentary period in Machoo Poochoo). Apparently he was a big reader (according to CBD I think) of stuff that particularly appealed to him, but unable to apply himself in other ways academically.

A couple of O[rdinary] Levels was fairly respectable for that era. From 1944 to 1972 the school leaving age was 15. It's raising to 16 in 1972 was not universally popular, especially amongst some of the traditional working class. Since exams were taken at 16 it meant that before 1972 many working class teenagers left school with no qualifications at all. Once they were required to stay in school until 16 and could take leaving exams, they were split into two streams - the more able took O Levels and the less able or academic took CSEs (Certificates of Secondary Education) or some commercial / vocational qualifications such as Pitman shorthand and typing.

 

[Rookie D]

Was SL a victim of the late Al Fayed?

Harrods was purchased by Al Fayed in 1985 and he purchased a lot of real estate in and around London at the time.

He also had a penchant for "pretty young blondes"

We know that SL eluded to having been involved in an upcoming deal, and that she gave the impression that something significant was about to happen in her life.

Was Mr Kipper a representative who was hired by Fayed?

I mentioned upthread that I believe that SL never left Fulham, and that her killer deposited her body within relatively close proximity to Stevenage Road, and highlighted that at the time the Thames Reach site was under construction. Well, directly opposite that site is the Harrods furniture depository, which is located on the south bank of the Thames, just north of the London Wetlands Centre and Barnes Cemetery. The site was converted into private flats in 2000, but at the time of SL's disappearance, the site was a privately owned storage facility.

Could SL have been taken to the depository, murdered, and then her body later taken away via the Thames?

Could SL have driven north up Fulham Palace Road at 2.45pm, and essentially past the Thames Reach site, but rather than turn onto the main A4 road, she instead drove west and then south onto the Hammersmith Bridge, and then ended up on the south side of the river; essentially doubling back on herself.

We know that Fayed was alleged to have been involved with the abuse of multiple female victims over a long period of time and that he had a reputation for being inappropriate with women.

Therefore, based on the geographic location, his behaviour, his penchant for young blonde women, their mutual link to real estate, and the fact that SL's car was dumped within close proximity to the Harrods furniture depository; albeit being on the opposite side of the river, then could SL have been a victim of Fayed?

It has also been alleged that Fayed may have been involved with sex trafficking, and so that may be another angle to look at.

Was SL a victim of sex trafficking?

Mr Kipper having a tanned appearance, may also reflect that he perhaps wasn't English.

Interesting also that Fayed went on to buy Fulham FC in 1997, which is of course located on Stevenage Road, just a stones throw from where SL was parked and mere yards from where the BMW was alleged to have been seen speeding off with a "screaming" SL inside.

Did SL have her hair dyed blonde, specifically because she was trying to impress Fayed or because she had been asked to change her hair colour to cater for what he liked?

Was her choice to change her hair colour a big clue that has been overlooked?

And was the photo of her with dark her deliberately circulated so as to not make an initial potential link with Al Fayed?

I am not suggesting that Fayed was directly involved, but that there be a link to Fayed and the disappearance of SL.

It's all supposition and conjecture on my part of course, but an angle that I don't believe has been looked at before?