Unwanted Birth Control Advice Leads To 76 yr Old Woman Being Banned From Bus

[BhamMama]

I'm a mother of 7, yes 7. I take the bus and street car all the time. I'm not white either. Guess that makes me one of the lower forms of life.

Until you find out WHY I take the bus....ever heard of pollution? I also recycle, take my own bags (that I sewed myself thank you) to the grocery store, breast feed, cloth diaper and generally try to step lightly on the earth.

I also happen to be educated, paid for by my 2 jobs while I had babies and tended a man and a house.

How in the world can anyone judge someone just because they have childen and ride a bus? Just what does that prove? Is it because her skin was darker that the assumption was made she was poor and had to ride the bus? The bus isn't just for poor people ya know.

In my city it's one of the only ways to get around down town unless you'd like to pay 30 a day to park a car then walk anyway. No one drives downtown. No room for cars on little roads.

I had kids because I wanted them and could afford them. And I know the difference between being well off and being so poor you used an outhouse and the sears catalog was toilet paper. If I didn't think I couldn't give them a life that was comfortable I'd not have had them. That includes a plan for the future so I'll not have to worry about my family, or g-d forbid the public, having to tend to my brood.

No one knows if the woman on the bus has the same thoughts and issues.

The old bat was narrow minded and would have had an ear full from me real quick like. Age doesn't earn you respect, manners and how you treat people does. I know plenty of old fools I wouldn't cross the street to pee on if they were on fire. They were usually rude people at 40 too.

My mamaw always says, clean off you own front porch before worrying about someone else's. Maybe the old lady didn't get that memo.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<I don't unerstand why anyone would think its not ok to ban this women from the bus? >>

She's not committing a crime except of bad taste.

I thought the Constitution also protected unpopular speech and unpleasant people.

 

[Amraann]

<<I don't unerstand why anyone would think its not ok to ban this women from the bus? >>

She's not committing a crime except of bad taste.

I thought the Constitution also protected unpopular speech and unpleasant people.

A private business can refuse service to anyone.

 

[southcitymom]

<<I don't unerstand why anyone would think its not ok to ban this women from the bus? >>

She's not committing a crime except of bad taste.

I thought the Constitution also protected unpopular speech and unpleasant people.

The Constitution does protect these things, BUT - as angelmom pointed out - this elderly women was engaged in a pattern of harrassment. Harrassing behavior is not protected by the Constitution.

 

[Nore]

I love a woman with moxyy too, but this woman just sounds rude. The comment that "they're taking over our society" is telling as to her views.

In any event, she is 72, so her antiquated beliefs will pass on soon enough.

Just my 2 cents.

----------------

Not all older people feel this way. I am 76yrs. and I was taught to respect all no matter what their race, it isn't right for her to be telling anyone else how to live their life.Where I am racism wasn't as strong with my moms generation~my grandparents etc. were the Archie Bunkers of our area.She must just learn to keep her trap shut! LOL.

 

[southcitymom]

----------------

Not all older people feel this way. I am 76yrs. and I was taught to respect all no matter what their race, it isn't right for her to be telling anyone else how to live their life.Where I am racism wasn't as strong with my moms generation~my grandparents etc. were the Archie Bunkers of our area.She must just learn to keep her trap shut! LOL.

I do understand that not all older people hang onto the burden of prejudice. My great-aunt passed away 5 years ago at 85 and she was one of the most progressive, forward-thinking people I ever knew. She shared a lot of wisdom with me that came from the years she had lived and I am grateful for that.

 

[Nova]

Age doesn't earn you respect, manners and how you treat people does. I know plenty of old fools I wouldn't cross the street to pee on if they were on fire. They were usually rude people at 40 too.

My mamaw always says, clean off you own front porch before worrying about someone else's. Maybe the old lady didn't get that memo.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

(I don't like these posts where we just clap. But what else is there to say after BhamMama's excellent post?)

 

[twinkiesmom]

Cache Valley Transit District sounds like a public transit system to me, not private.

There's no law against unpleasant speech. Harrassment implies a threat to someone's well being. This isn't harrassment.

Why don't the people she's bothering just tell her off? They have freedom of speech too.

If the "old bat" lawyers up, the city is going to have to pay for her banishment.

 

[sherri79]

Cache Valley Transit District sounds like a public transit system to me, not private.

There's no law against unpleasant speech. Harrassment implies a threat to someone's well being. This isn't harrassment.

Why don't the people she's bothering just tell her off? They have freedom of speech too.

If the "old bat" lawyers up, the city is going to have to pay for her banishment.

harassment is not only a threat. if every time a 20something white girl get on a bus 1 guy hits on them and when turned down calls them a "b$%ch" this repeated behavior would be harassment. if every time a young black man gets on the bus 1 middle age white guys says "ni$$ers to the back of the bus" it would be harassment. if every time two men get on the bus together a teenage hispanic girl says" may f%&s burn in hell" it is harassment.
we do not have the right to be free from being offended but repeated speech from 1 person can be harassment. if the bus company had let this older lady ride and insult every young mother of hispanic descent then they may face a lawsuit from the moms.

 

[southcitymom]

Cache Valley Transit District sounds like a public transit system to me, not private.

There's no law against unpleasant speech. Harrassment implies a threat to someone's well being. This isn't harrassment.

Why don't the people she's bothering just tell her off? They have freedom of speech too.

If the "old bat" lawyers up, the city is going to have to pay for her banishment.

Here is one legal definition of harrassment:

harassment (either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice.....

It does not have to be threatening - it just has to be persistent, unwanted and annoying and it can have racial overtones.

The elderly women on the bus is clearly harrassing these people via this definition. I doubt the city will have to pay a dime if she lawyers up.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Show me your dictionary definition of harrassment on a criminal statute.

She wasn't arrested for harrassment...She was arrested for trespassing.

So the police are overstepping the law here because it's not possible for her to be trespassing on public property in a public place.

You're assuming facts not in evidence when you say she's been approaching the same people....The story only said that she had been repeating the same thing.

There's no law on the books that says you have the right not to be annoyed in this country. That's all she was doing...being annoying.

 

[Nova]

Show me your dictionary definition of harrassment on a criminal statute.

She wasn't arrested for harrassment...She was arrested for trespassing.

So the police are overstepping the law here because it's not possible for her to be trespassing on public property in a public place.

You're assuming facts not in evidence when you say she's been approaching the same people....The story only said that she had been repeating the same thing.

There's no law on the books that says you have the right not to be annoyed in this country. That's all she was doing...being annoying.

None of us knows exactly what the legal reasoning is and we're all speculating. But re the passage I highlighted above, I believe one CAN be charged with trespassing on public property.

Otherwise, we would all have free run of the White House.

I suspect that the bus company has policies for when a passenger may be ejected. If "trespassing" was the charge, then the woman was probably asked to leave a bus and refused.

 

[JBean]

We just recently had a case where a lady was standing in front of a restaurant telling people it was a nasty place to eat.She did it over and over.
Does anyone think the restaurant should have any legal standing to make her stop?

ETA: She would also say the patrons were drunks and .

>>Court records say Lemen filmed bar patrons, accused the bar of selling drugs, and called customers "drunks" and "." She told others that the eatery engaged in prostitution and said a bartender was "going to have Satan's children," the documents say.<<

 

[angelmom]

We just recently had a case where a lady was standing in front of a restaurant telling people it was a nasty place to eat.She did it over and over.
Does anyone think the restaurant should have any legal standing to make her stop?

We had a similar one here. A guy was standing in front of a pet grooming place holding a big sign saying they had hurt his dog. He had a website and everything (I tried to find it but must have remembered it wrong...tried every combo and a search engine and nothing). He was very careful to stand on the sidewalk just past their property. From where he was pacing back and forth, stopping just short of their property line - not even walking on the public sidewalk in front of their business - it gave me the impression that he had looked into the exact line where their rights ended.

Free speech does not give you the right to say anything you want. Other people have rights, too. The older woman does have the right to use public transit, but the other riders have the right to use it as well without being harrassed by this woman who has clearly lost her sense of appropriate boundaries.

She had been asked and then warned to stop before being told not to return to the bus line. If she comes back she will be charged with trespassing. It's a very simple concept. If she wanted to keep riding the bus, all she had to do was stop her verbal abuse of the other passengers. Her choice. She chose to be removed from the situation rather than give up her "advice."

 

[JBean]

This has been an interesting local free speech battle here in Newport.
Thoughts?

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1671789.php

Jurists uphold bar critic's gagging

A Balboa Island woman can be stopped from making defamatory comments about a local bar, the California Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

By JEFF OVERLEY
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
NEWPORT BEACH- A Balboa Island woman who is accused of saying that workers at a neighborhood bar of peddled child porn, had Mafia ties and worked for Satan can be barred from making such comments without having her free-speech rights violated, the California Supreme Court ruled Thursday.
snip
In 2002, a Superior Court injunction barred Lemen from making most of those statements, and prohibited her from contacting bar employees at any place or filming the restaurant in most instances.
In 2004, the 4th District Court of Appeal overturned all but the filming provision, saying the injunctions violated free speech.
Thursday, the state's high court agreed in part, calling the restriction on contacting employees "overly broad." But the injunction on Lemen's comments can be enforced after being narrowed slightly, the high court said.
snip
In a dissent, Justice Joyce L. Kennard decried the outcome. "To forever gag the speaker ... goes beyond chilling speech; it freezes speech," she said.

 

[Nova]

This has been an interesting local free speech battle here in Newport...

That's a tough one to me, J. What do you think?

Since the veracity of the woman's charges hasn't been judged, we should think in terms of how would we feel if her claims were true. What if people had died from eating at that restaurant and the restaurant owners' had somehow bribed the health inspector, etc.? Would someone be wrong to stand outside and warn patrons as they approached?

 

[JBean]

That's a tough one to me, J. What do you think?

Since the veracity of the woman's charges hasn't been judged, we should think in terms of how would we feel if her claims were true. What if people had died from eating at that restaurant and the restaurant owners' had somehow bribed the health inspector, etc.? Would someone be wrong to stand outside and warn patrons as they approached?

The claims may or may not have been true. Same can be said for our bus riders claims.

 

[angelmom]

Show me your dictionary definition of harrassment on a criminal statute.

She wasn't arrested for harrassment...She was arrested for trespassing.

So the police are overstepping the law here because it's not possible for her to be trespassing on public property in a public place.

You're assuming facts not in evidence when you say she's been approaching the same people....The story only said that she had been repeating the same thing.

There's no law on the books that says you have the right not to be annoyed in this country. That's all she was doing...being annoying.

Usually these are used against protestors, but in a way, isn't that what she's doing? A 1-woman protest against "those people" taking over our country by sneaking over the border and turning into "breed sows" and popping out new American babies by the season?

I hope everyone knows that I was not serious.

Anyway, these were the examples I could find:

re: protestors
http://www.the-scientist.com/news/home/36515/
"The new bill makes it a crime to trespass, harass, vandalize, or otherwise threaten anyone associated with an animal enterprise, including scientists and their families. Similar legislation was enacted in England last year. To address First Amendment concerns, the new bill specifically permits peaceful picketing, demonstrations, and "lawful boycotts" against animal enterprises. "This bill does not satisfy everyone, but it does represent a reasonable compromise," said Rep. Robert Scott (D-Va). "

re: the homeless...
http://www.loveandfearlessness.com/city/20meanest.html
"The main difference between the trespass ordinance and the proposed anti-camping ordinance was that under the trespass ordinance, campers have to first be given a warning to leave before they could be ticketed. "
<snip>
"In another incident, two homeless men reported officers of the Little Rock Police Department, in separate incidents, had kicked them out of the Little Rock Bus Station. Both men were holding valid tickets and transfers. Despite showing the police their tickets, both men were told that although the buses they were awaiting would arrive within 30 minutes, they could not wait on the premises because they were loitering. The police subsequently evicted the men. In some instances, others have been told that they could not wait at the bus station "because you are homeless."
<snip>
"Citing a need to "reflect changes in society," the Houston City Council also passed new regulations under which patrons with offensive bodily hygiene that constitutes a nuisance to others will not be allowed inside the library. In addition, these laws prohibit people from sleeping or putting their head, feet or legs on tables, using library restrooms to change their clothes, bathe, or shave, as well as outlawing large backpacks and blankets in the building."

interesting one about harassment of photographers by police...and if photography is becoming illegal
http://www.vividlight.com/articles/3802.htm
There is a delicate balance to be struck between diligence and harassment. Law enforcement would be horribly irresponsible if they didn't take notice of photographers and videographers around potential terrorist targets. If an attack occurs and it was found that terrorists had scouted the location unmolested there would be an outcry at law enforcement's lack of diligence. Given the current, real threat from terrorists, an officer approaching you and asking a few questions or asking for ID is not harassment - provided they are professional and courteous in their approach.

 

[ziggy]

OK, so how come the homeless bums that "harass" me on every street in SF can't be banned from that public property?

I was in the city a month ago and this guy was persistent. I was talking on my phone on the sidewalk outside the building I was working in. I told him off and gave him the people's eyebrow. He then proceeded to a Wells Fargo ATM a few feet away and started agressively begging an elderly Asian man at the ATM. The man looked scared and kept saying, "leave me alone". I think he was afraid he was going to be robbed at the ATM. I stood close by and watched in case the threat got worse. I stepped in and told the bum to get lost, that he can't approach people at an ATM. He was cursing at me but he left. I just don't put up with that crap.

That is way more annoying in my book than some old lady lecturing about birth control. Maybe she could get a job at the public schools? Just kidding. If she had racial overtones, maybe she had a point and maybe she didn't. But banning her is extreme imo.

 

[JBean]

What about defamation?

To be honest, I have no opinion on this yet. I just don't know enough. I am just throwing out ideas.