US coal mine collapse traps six-Utah - Thread No. 2

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  • #201
As far as getting the equipment out of the mine I can understand that because they know exactly where the equipment is.

I know what you're saying, but they are also saying even if they knew where they were they'd probably not bring them out. They first said they'd bring them out dead or alive. Then they say the mountain is too unstable. The mine is not safe. They're going to do a stop and seal.

How can you say all that and be dragging your darn tools out? How are you going to look anyone in the eye after that?
 
  • #202
I have been reading this thread since day one. I am personally involved with the coal industry and have not commented for two reasons. One, people simply do not like "coal people" . It's not my imagination, I've lived with it for 46 years. Two, I felt my comments would be bias so I kept them to myself until today.

I don't have any problem with "coal people" as I have been around people in the oil & gas industry most of my life. I don't know why people would hold it against you. The energy industries are an essential part of life in our country.

However, I don't think technology has been applied appropriately in the mining industry. There are so many areas where there needs to be improvements made for safety. Our miners deserve better, IMO. It is a dangerous job, but there should be no excuse for them not to supply essentials in different parts of the mines in case of cave ins, etc. There is no excuse not to have a way of communicating with the miners in those cases either. It is absolutely unfathomable we are still where we were 50-100 years ago as far as solutions here.

In other words, I support people in the coal industry and I believe they deserve better.
 
  • #203
Hmmm...so WHERE is Robert Murray?! Anyone see him today?!

I think it is horrid he hasn't seen the first six miners' families since Thursday. What is he thinking?! They have two ongoing situations and he seems to concentrate solely on the last one? Why?
 
  • #204
The families of six trapped miners met twice today with mining officials. They're hoping to re-start the rescue operation with an entirely different approach.

Those families blasted the planners last night for allegedly giving up on the men trapped in the mine.

The media has been waiting all day to hear some official response to last night's startling and angry statement from the families. Officials canceled one briefing this morning, and now they've scheduled another for this evening.

Last night, the families marched en masse across Highway 10 in Huntington, making a show of unity for waiting news cameras. In a prepared statement, they broke two weeks of public silence. They accused mining officials of doing nothing constructive to rescue their loved ones.

This morning the families had two separate meetings with mining officials and reported an improved collaborative atmosphere. But no word on whether any new plans have emerged.

Today the family spokesman expressed gratitude for the heroism of rescuers, but said families are frustrated with mine owner, Bob Murray's, disappearing act in the last few days. "They are very displeased with Mr. Murray's absence. It seems to suggest that he wants to cut his losses, entomb the mine and leave the miners where they are," family spokesman Sonny Olsen said.

More at link: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1666059
 
  • #205
I truely think if they locate the miners they will get them out. I am pretty sure at this point Murray wants to save face so if leaving a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment in the mine will make him look better as of right now then he will leave it in there..thousands is pennies to him. On the flip side I can't even begin to imagine the families right now. I am sure if the miners would of been found alive then Murray would of been hailed as a King...But now since they can't even locate them they are already contacting lawyers. One thing I can say is Murray did NOT want their loved ones to die in there and they really did everything in their power to get them out.



I know what you're saying, but they are also saying even if they knew where they were they'd probably not bring them out. They first said they'd bring them out dead or alive. Then they say the mountain is too unstable. The mine is not safe. They're going to do a stop and seal.

How can you say all that and be dragging your darn tools out? How are you going to look anyone in the eye after that?
 
  • #206
Ohhhh that makes me mad! ''they accused mine officials of doing nothing constructive to find their loved ones?''.... People DIED looking for their loved ones! If I was one of the rescue-miners families who passed away doing something constructive looking for their loved one I would be so hurt right now. Really this is a no win situation anymore.



The families of six trapped miners met twice today with mining officials. They're hoping to re-start the rescue operation with an entirely different approach.

Those families blasted the planners last night for allegedly giving up on the men trapped in the mine.

The media has been waiting all day to hear some official response to last night's startling and angry statement from the families. Officials canceled one briefing this morning, and now they've scheduled another for this evening.

Last night, the families marched en masse across Highway 10 in Huntington, making a show of unity for waiting news cameras. In a prepared statement, they broke two weeks of public silence. They accused mining officials of doing nothing constructive to rescue their loved ones.

This morning the families had two separate meetings with mining officials and reported an improved collaborative atmosphere. But no word on whether any new plans have emerged.

Today the family spokesman expressed gratitude for the heroism of rescuers, but said families are frustrated with mine owner, Bob Murray's, disappearing act in the last few days. "They are very displeased with Mr. Murray's absence. It seems to suggest that he wants to cut his losses, entomb the mine and leave the miners where they are," family spokesman Sonny Olsen said.

More at link: http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1666059
 
  • #207
I can understand the frustration and anger from the families of the first six men, but I agree that the miners' families and the family of the MSHA person from the second collapse should be upset by their statement. When their men risked their lives and in fact...did die...trying to save their loved ones...then they come out with such a thoughtless statement!! How horrible! I feel they owe them a public apology!

It may have been directed towards the execs of the mining company...but they certainly didn't word it appropriately! They perhaps need a new spokesperson for the families!
 
  • #208
They can't stop searching for the miners. That's just not right :(
 
  • #209
A little has been added to the article that I just posted. I wonder if someone other than Murray is running the show. Seems like Bob seemed hopeful and then in the second email he was not so hopeful. Now news stations are seriously looking at Stickler. It is said that some bloggers have now nicknamed Stickler "The New Brownie".... Things to ponder.

Murray Breaks His Silence
August 20th, 2007 @ 5:01pm


LIVE VIDEO: Monday Evening Press Conference (approx 7:00 pm)... Click Here to Watch

John Hollenhorst Reporting

Today, mine owner Bob Murray issued a pair of emails several hours apart. In the first one he wrote, "We will not be deterred, and we will not leave this mountain until we find our people."

The second email, a few hours later, said, "We will not leave this mountain until we achieve a resolution to this tragedy."

The second email seems to reflect the pessimistic turn in tone by rescuers yesterday and is likely to give the families one more reason to be displeased with Mr. Murray.

However, the families of six trapped miners met twice today with mining officials. They're hoping to re-start the rescue operation with an entirely different approach.
 
  • #210
My thought on recovering the 6 miners bodies is (and I may get blasted for this) that if the conclusion is reached by the experts that there is no way they can guarantee the safety of those going into the mine to resume the rescue or recovery mission then I feel that if there are miners who feel like they want to go in and try to get their "brothers" out of that mine they should be allowed to. They ALL know the dangers involved involved in trying to do so and yet I know there are many that want to go back in to see if they can locate the 6 miners and bring them out.

I think those miners should have to sign an agreement with the owners of the mine that the owners, etc will not be held responsible should there be other lives lost during the recovery effort.

What is everyone's take on this? Should other miners be allowed back into the mine if they insist on it?
 
  • #211
And what approach would that be?! What hasn't been done? Short of taking off the top of the mountain and creating a strip mine...I don't know what else they can do!

RK~ I don't believe this is a viable option. When people are emotional and reacting to such a situation...they aren't thinking with their minds, but their hearts. Sometimes we have to protect them from themselves. It wouldn't serve anyone to lose more men...even if they wanted to risk it all to go back in. The mine simply is not safe.
 
  • #212
You talking to me?? LOL!

I did say IF they can't find another way. I don't really know for certain what lead experts from across the nation have had to say about any other route they may be able to take? If there was any way for the pillars inside to be reinforced. I just don't know.

That would be ridiculous to even suggest taking the mountain top off. You could call in that tip if you care too :D

And what approach would that be?! What hasn't been done? Short of taking off the top of the mountain and creating a strip mine...I don't know what else they can do!
 
  • #213
They can't stop searching for the miners. That's just not right :(

I'm not certain I posted the story about my neighbor or not.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070218-9999-1m18heli.html


Cory Helman was my other son. The US Navy stated they couldn't get them from 4000 ft into the ocean bottom. As you can see from the short article above the Navy 'DID' get them.

His Mom & I sent emails to any & every media outlet in the US that would listen to us. It was decided there would be NO funeral until his body was found, we all screamed we needed closure. It happened.

I'm sure the families of the miners can do the same.
 
  • #214
I feel the miners ( a lot of them at least) were raised with a miner's mentality. They have always known the dangers and they have always thought if something were to happen they would do anything possible to rescue or recover their 'brothers'. Now that something has happened they want to stand by that code. It isn't a heat of the moment decision. At least it seems that way to me.
 
  • #215
My thought on recovering the 6 miners bodies is (and I may get blasted for this) that if the conclusion is reached by the experts that there is no way they can guarantee the safety of those going into the mine to resume the rescue or recovery mission then I feel that if there are miners who feel like they want to go in and try to get their "brothers" out of that mine they should be allowed to. They ALL know the dangers involved involved in trying to do so and yet I know there are many that want to go back in to see if they can locate the 6 miners and bring them out.

I think those miners should have to sign an agreement with the owners of the mine that the owners, etc will not be held responsible should there be other lives lost during the recovery effort.

What is everyone's take on this? Should other miners be allowed back into the mine if they insist on it?

It would be a long shot but I think they should be provided with any & every ounce of survival equipment available. Yes sign the release & let the miners go back in.

It is the only solution to this. The miners watching this are well aware of the risks. Can you imagine the nightmares they are having? Knowing one of there own is left in a filthy dark tomb? I agree with you RKnowley....

They could state if this attempt fails it is final! I see no other alternative.
See I knew you were very smart!!! :blowkiss:
 
  • #216
Can I ask what MSHA stands for, Ive somehow missed it?.....TIA.
 
  • #217
Can I ask what MSHA stands for, Ive somehow missed it?.....TIA.

Read some of Ken Ward, Jr's or Liz Burkowski's reports (along with numerous others) to see how it's failed to protect USA miner's safety in the past few years.
 
  • #218
I just feel that EVERY effort should be made to recover these miners bodies.

I have a friend (an older lady) whose son was a NAVY SEAL in 1964 and during a scuba training exercise he and his buddy were given bad oxygen tanks (only one of them that went in was supposed to get a bad tank but anyhow it turns out their captain wanted them dead..but that's a whole nother story) Anyhow, the guys went into the water and came up for air and were yelling for help and the captain ordered the other SEALS to turn the boat around and leave the 2 men in the water, which they did.

Neither of the bodies were ever recovered. My friend went through such a bad depression that kept her in bed most of the time. She finally did get a computer and that is how I met her (online) in a genealogy chatroom and we got to talking about her son and I was able to locate some of the other men who had been on the boat the same night when the captain gave the orders for them to leave my friend's son and the other man in the water. These men were able to get ahold of my friend and they were finally able to give her son a military funeral even though there was no body. She was able to heal somewhat finding out exactly what happened the night of her sons death.

But this sort of thing stays with someone for a long long time. My friend's son died in 1964 and when I met her online in around 1994 or so she was still in a deep depression and still was wondering what happened to her son. Could he have been found and had amnesia and is now living someplace else, etc.
 
  • #219
  • #220
I'm not certain I posted the story about my neighbor or not.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070218-9999-1m18heli.html


Cory Helman was my other son. The US Navy stated they couldn't get them from 4000 ft into the ocean bottom. As you can see from the short article above the Navy 'DID' get them.

His Mom & I sent emails to any & every media outlet in the US that would listen to us. It was decided there would be NO funeral until his body was found, we all screamed we needed closure. It happened.

I'm sure the families of the miners can do the same.


Cheko...I'm so sorry about your son. I had no idea. :(

:blowkiss: :blowkiss:
 
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