GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

[michelle]

something seems off to me. when a girl is taken from her bed in the middle of the night it is normally her father. when it is not her father it tends to be a neighbor. after the girl is raped she is released right away or more likely killed. a pattern makes me feel safer. my hubby is not a pervert and i watch my neighbors like a hawk so my kids should be safe.. right? nothing in this case follows what we know to be the normal pattern of child abductions. she is not taken by a relative or family friend or neighbor. she is taken by a man and woman. odd to have a woman involved in the sexual abduction of a child. she is not killed or released or kept locked in a basement.

i want a pattern because it scares the hell out of me to live in a world with such random acts. i feel safer when i can point at couey and say we should have known look at his record, when i can point at westerfields child and the testimony of his niece as proof this is not random.

i do believe she was taken by strangers. held for months with fear and rape used to control her. the couple is crazy but i do not believe they are insane and unable to stand trial. this girl's story does not fit the pattern and thank God for that. it is a miracle she is alive.

Polly Klass was taken from her bed to and it was not a neighbor, jacklyn dowaliby, danielle van dam, it is a very scary world when kids are not safe in their own beds.

 

[golfmom]

I think too that LE doesn't want too many details out there after what happened with Richard Ricci. Any defense would rake the prosecution over the coals for that situation.

It's safer for Mitchell and Barzee to be tucked away in a hospital rather than face what would come out at a trial.

It's interesting that they were both "sane" enough to go through the courts for a divorce, but not to stand trial.

 

[Details]

I never thought she was alive - the statistics, the history is clear - when they're gone for a little while, they're dead. It was incredible to see her show up alive. I'm so glad she did.

Other kids have been abducted from their beds. I have a friend who knows a lot of Mormons, implies she knows more than is safe to know, who also thinks something weird happened here - I can't say I believe it. I also can't say it's impossible. But the kidnappers - they're nut jobs. Not legally insane, but nut jobs nonetheless.

 

[Moab]

Maybe some others can try to chime in ..... I know I'm not the only one that feels something is "off" on this case.

Some of it stems from the handling of Richard Ricci. After LE locked in on him being the suspect, they seemed very reluctant to investigate any further out of perhaps a fear of being proved wrong. It took the family going public on Mary Katherine's statement before they released any information about "Emmanuel." There was just something really odd on the way the whole deal was handled.

I agree that LE focused on Ricci for much longer than they should have, and they were also very short-sighted as a result of that.

 

[Moab]

Moab, I'm sure they would rather be in the hospital than prison. Hopefully the jig will soon be up and they will have to face the music.

Me too. I think Barzee stands a good chance of regaining competency once she gets back on proper medication. It is my understanding that pre-Mitchell, she used to be on medication and was extremely functional. Matter of fact, she was one of the first women ever to play the organ in the Tabernacle when she was an active member of the LDS Church.

I don't think she is insane at all, I think she is suffering from a mental illness that is controlled by medication, although I don't know to what degree. Once they got her cleaned up and getting proper rest and food, she seems to be doing quite well actually.

Mitchell, on the other hand, is crazy like a fox!

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I thought that the abductor was someone that had come to the house once as a repair person or something. When he was identified, I thought the family knew who he was.

 

[Moab]

Golfmom, they have to be able to understand and help with their defense. That's separate from meeting the designation of insanity.

Utah does have a very strict law! I've always thought the inability to distinguish between right and wrong qualified one for the insanity plea. Everywhere but Utah it seems.

It does seem like the law is peculiar, doesn't it? I think the biggest issue is are they able to understand and help with their defense, as you said. I think the ship has sailed on the right and wrong issue, don't you? If it were not wrong why did they hide her?

 

[Moab]

i want a pattern because it scares the hell out of me to live in a world with such random acts. i feel safer when i can point at couey and say we should have known look at his record, when i can point at westerfields child and the testimony of his niece as proof this is not random.

i do believe she was taken by strangers. held for months with fear and rape used to control her. the couple is crazy but i do not believe they are insane and unable to stand trial. this girl's story does not fit the pattern and thank God for that. it is a miracle she is alive.

The "pattern" in this case was polygamy, or at least Mitchell's version of it.

 

[sherri79]

The "pattern" in this case was polygamy, or at least Mitchell's version of it.

polygamy does not involve kidnapping a stranger from her bed in the middle of the night. i know polygamy often involves teen brides but if mitchell twisted that into what he did maybe he is insane.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

The "pattern" in this case was polygamy, or at least Mitchell's version of it.

Elizabeth was the second "wife". Didn't they try to kidnap the younger sister to be the third "wife"? Didn't the male abductor claim to be Jesus or something?

I don't recall all of the details.

 

[SeekingJana]

I too am glad she came home safe and sound. I have to say though that something about this story never really sat right with me.

Please add me to your list, Golfmom. It's never added up up.

 

[Details]

Polygamy as many of these perverts take it has nothing to do with a wife being willing. Women exist to marry and bear children - not to think, not to choose. They're livestock, in that point of view.

 

[Moab]

I think too that LE doesn't want too many details out there after what happened with Richard Ricci. Any defense would rake the prosecution over the coals for that situation.

It's safer for Mitchell and Barzee to be tucked away in a hospital rather than face what would come out at a trial.

It's interesting that they were both "sane" enough to go through the courts for a divorce, but not to stand trial.

I see the situation with LE a bit differently - they have already been chastised and taken their lumps...I don't think there is a whole lot we don't already know regarding this - even they admitted looking at Ricci too long, and wished they had acted on Emanuel sooner.

Although she has applied, I don't think the divorce can be "granted" until there is a positive mental report and her competency established.

 

[Moab]

Elizabeth was the second "wife". Didn't they try to kidnap the younger sister to be the third "wife"? Didn't the male abductor claim to be Jesus or something?

I don't recall all of the details.

I believe, if I am remembering correctly, that Mitchell tried to gain the "second wife" before Elizabeth was abducted, and the woman wanted nothing to do with him.

During the time Elizabeth was held captive, Mitchell made an attempt on her cousin.

 

[Moab]

polygamy does not involve kidnapping a stranger from her bed in the middle of the night. i know polygamy often involves teen brides but if mitchell twisted that into what he did maybe he is insane.

You are correct, it doesn't, but it does involve mind control and subservience. Just look at the FLDS situation going on in Texas. Mitchell tried to get wife #2 the normal way, and the woman would not have anything to do with him, he used extraordinary means to get Elizabeth.

You are correct, Mitchell did twist things, but I don't think that makes him insane.

 

[southcitymom]

Golfmom, they have to be able to understand and help with their defense. That's separate from meeting the designation of insanity.

Utah does have a very strict law! I've always thought the inability to distinguish between right and wrong qualified one for the insanity plea. Everywhere but Utah it seems.

Me too - that is interesting to learn.

 

[Tranaice]

I don't know if it really was a specific thing. Just a sense of unease that something wasn't quite right with this case.

I'm really struggling to put into words why exactly something seems off to me.

Same here golfmom! Something made me feel that there was more to the story. Something just didn't feel right. I can't put my finger on any one thing, just all of it together. I guess like you, I can't quite put into words why I'm feeling what I am. Just instinct, and I've usually always had good instincts.

 

[thefragile7393]

the couple is crazy but i do not believe they are insane and unable to stand trial.

I've always felt this way about Charles Manson. Forcibly medicating to stand trial rubs me the wrong way..I have problems with this anyway, but there are credible arguments to both sides. Forcibly medicating to stand trial means that they think she'll be "sane" enough for trial.....she's sane enough now! Crazy and insane are two different things.

 

[C.Whalen]

I too am glad she came home safe and sound. I have to say though that something about this story never really sat right with me.

Add me to the list as well golfmom. Can't pinpoint it exactly, but the more answers I heard from the Smart family and news media, the more questions I had. It just didn't make any sense to me.
Also I understand that Elizabeth must have gone through hell for those months but the reunion with her family IMO didn't look like a happy encounter. It almost looked to me like Elizabeth was pulling away from her dad at one point when they were standing together in her laneway I believe, and he hugged her. I also wonder why she told the police she was not Elizabeth Smart. I guess I just don't understand the complexities of the mind. At any rate, glad she is doing well and has a second chance unlike so many poor kids that go missing.

 

[eleven]

This story has also never sat right with me.

I have a friend who thinks that Elizabeth turned up pregnant, and that this "abduction" was arranged as a means to "send her away" for the pregnancy and subsequent birth out of shame due to religious reasons.

How long was she gone?