UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s unexpected death last year, May 2023 #3

[ttjo]

I thought this same exact thing - addicted to buying houses. I also think that Eric made her feel small, like her place was to be home with the kids.

It sounds like they’ve had marital issues growing over several years and she felt trapped. Maybe if she was perceived as super successful, she thought she’d be on Eric’s “level” (or even superseded him) and he’d look at her as more of an equal?

Doesn’t sound like his family thought much of her either, I missed why tho? That probably also made her feel small, wanted her own success to get away from all of it, and them thinking she was a gold digger.
She had everything, why was she so miserable.

 

[calo44]

I need to watch more of the trial to give an opinion. From what I've seen, the prosecution seems to be telling a linear sequential story as it unfolded over time - but not sure.

Kouri's financial problems provide motive. Her online searches imply guilt. Her connection to the drug dealer who sold tainted M30 pills connects her with fentanyl. She sure looks guilty.

What about you? Thoughts?

I like the way the prosecution is unfolding the story but I have to admit, if I were a juror I’d be on the fence. When Carmen and Robbie were on the stand, it seemed clear that she was guilty. Then the financial picture was laid out for us, and it was so voluminous that it felt like everything before it was unimportant.

Yesterday, a few wrenches were thrown. The one friend, Ms. Lloyd, was impeached saying she couldn’t remember if KR really did say she wanted her husband dead. She was on the stand, smiling and looked so happy to be there and then they played the recording where she said she wasn’t sure. It struck me as Ms. Lloyd being jealous. Then Ally Staking made Kouri seem human and likable. She started to say something about the gummies they were planning to eat that evening being a bad batch, but got cut off and didn’t complete the thought. Those two witnesses alone were better for the defense and made me thankful I’m not on the jury panel.

 

[calo44]

Doesn’t sound like his family thought much of her either, I missed why tho? That probably also made her feel small, wanted her own success to get away from all of it, and them thinking she was a gold digger.

Yes, I thought this, too! Like the Richins family (sisters, mostly) really hated her and were gloating that the one is in charge of the trust, especially during his celebration of life party the day after he passed. Why would Amy bring it up then? And then Amy’s reaction to seeing the locksmith truck, that just seemed so strange to me.

 

[ttjo]

Yes, I thought this, too! Like the Richins family (sisters, mostly) really hated her and were gloating that the one is in charge of the trust, especially during his celebration of life party the day after he passed. Why would Amy bring it up then? And then Amy’s reaction to seeing the locksmith truck, that just seemed so strange to me.

I know, even the best friend made a comment about the Ritchins girls in that phone call she recorded.
I think it would be aggravating to me too to feel like his sisters had so much say in my relationship. I might be resentful of my husband also for allowing it. Im not defending her, just saying over time this could really damage a marriage , or speak to her resentment of all of them, especially if she felt she couldnt prove herself any other way, not even as a mom, there was talk about that too. BUT… were the sisters always that involved?
Im just trying to understand what her perspective might be. ( Kouri) and I know it doesn't justify what she (allegedly) )did.

 

[calo44]

Of course everyone laughed about the sandwich poisoning. No one believed it wanted to believe she was capable of murder.

JMO

I’ve been thinking about the sandwich poisoning and keep getting stonewalled at the thought of the taste. If she crushed up an oxy pill (or several) and put it in his sandwich, wouldn’t he taste that something was off? Like it was bitter or something?

And didn’t she just leave the sandwich in his truck vs. handing it to him and making sure he ate it in front of her? What if he took a few bites and then took it in to get tested because he thought it was tainted? That seems like it’d be more of a risk. Or if he ate it at work and gave half to a co-worker, or better yet, gave away the entire sandwich?

Idk, the whole sandwich poisoning just seems off to me. Jmo

 

[calo44]

I know, even the best friend made a comment about the Ritchins girls in that phone call she recorded.
I think it would be aggravating to me too to feel like his sisters had so much say in my relationship. I might be resentful of my husband also for allowing it. Im not defending her, just saying over time this could really damage a marriage , or speak to her resentment of all of them, especially if she felt she couldnt prove herself any other way, not even as a mom, there was talk about that too. BUT… were the sisters always that involved?
Im just trying to understand what her perspective might be. ( Kouri) and I know it doesn't justify what she (allegedly) )did.

You make a great point; there must be more to the rivalry with Kouri and Eric’s sisters than we’ve been told so far. And even the one sister’s husband who made the divorce attorney appt for Eric and acted as the go-between. That’s just really odd.

What man makes another man’s divorce attorney appointment for him?

 

[tlcya]

here is a good timeline for how their marriage and the financial disagreements progressed. I suspect that ER felt KR wasn't fiscally responsible from the get go - hence the premarital agreement before their 2013 wedding.

Time only appears to have proven his instincts were correct in that regard as their marriage progressed up through his death.

https://www.abc4.com/richins/kouri-richins-complete-timeline-in-murder-case/

 

[ttjo]

here is a good timeline for how their marriage and the financial disagreements progressed. I suspect that ER felt KR wasn't fiscally responsible from the get go - hence the premarital agreement before their 2013 wedding.

Time only appears to have proven his instincts were correct in that regard as their marriage progressed up through his death.

https://www.abc4.com/richins/kouri-richins-complete-timeline-in-murder-ca

Thanks Im going to read it.
I dont know much about his first marriage to Julie Jorgensen, I know she was killed in a fiery car accident because she was rear ended by an impaired driver. Does anyone know what happened with Erics estate after she was killed? If anyone went after it or if that may have contributed to wanting a pre nup with Kouri?

 

[tlcya]

You make a great point; there must be more to the rivalry with Kouri and Eric’s sisters than we’ve been told so far. And even the one sister’s husband who made the divorce attorney appt for Eric and acted as the go-between. That’s just really odd.

What man makes another man’s divorce attorney appointment for him?

I thought that was not at all unusual. when divorce is contemplated often those seeking it do not want communications with the attorney to be located by the spouse they are seeking divorce from.

Having paralegal friends who are in the field of divorce, it is IMO common for their clients to say "do not ever send me anything by mail." Or "please do not ever call me at home." Or "please only contact me through my friend so and so or this secure email", or such.

We already know that KR had access to him email account because it is how she attempted to alter his business insurance to make herself the beneficiary shortly before his death.

IMO ER was right to be extra cautious in communications with the divorce attorney, right down to setting the appointment. Unfortunately he wasn't cautious enough and didn't realize she would go so far as to murder him.

 

[tlcya]

Thanks Im going to read it.
I dont know much about his first marriage to Julie Jorgensen, I know she was killed in a fiery car accident because she was rear ended by an impaired driver. Does anyone know what happened with Erics estate after she was killed? If anyone went after it or if that may have contributed to wanting a pre nup with Kouri?

my understanding was that they divorced prior to her untimely death in the accident. The divorce apparently wasn't a smooth experience and so his family advised him prior to marrying Kouri to get a prenup and avoid some of the possible arguing if another divorce happened. ER was mentioned in his first wife's obituary so it must not have been such a contentious divorce that they hated one another after. JMO

Julie Ann Jorgenson Obituary January 6, 2011 - Serenicare

 

[ttjo]

my understanding was that they divorced prior to her untimely death in the accident. The divorce apparently wasn't a smooth experience and so his family advised him prior to marrying Kouri to get a prenup and avoid some of the possible arguing if another divorce happened. ER was mentioned in his first wife's obituary so it must not have been such a contentious divorce that they hated one another after. JMO

Julie Ann Jorgenson Obituary January 6, 2011 - Serenicare

Fair enough, it was more to avoid potential issues and this was before kids etc.
Still, maybe it bothered her but she signed it to prove she wasnt after his money,
Maybe she wasnt initially, but over time, maybe it changed. I wish I knew more about if and or why the sisters weren’t that fond of her and when it started.

 

[303gmf]

Doesn’t sound like his family thought much of her either, I missed why tho? That probably also made her feel small, wanted her own success to get away from all of it, and them thinking she was a gold digger.
She had everything, why was she so miserable.

IMO most of it boils down to Kouri not being Mormon

 

[ttjo]

IMO most of it boils down to Kouri not being Mormon

Oh!! I also read it started in greece when Eric told his sisters he thought Kouri tried to poison him, then again in 2022 with the sandwich incident. No doubt it caused them to be cautious about her.

Victim’s sister tells court Kouri Richins was ‘greedy,’ ‘desperate’

This week's court appearance by Kouri Richins, a Kamas mother of three accused of killing her husband Eric, gave the public a glimpse into how his family is processing the murder charge.

www.kpcw.org

 

[Megnut]

Backtracking a little: What do you make of the 15 minute interval between when her phone was unlocked or moved and her calling 911?

IMO she was just about to call 911, then realized she had more staging to do. Setting up the kitchen scene (the Defense has made a point to condemn first responders for failing to investigate, the kitchen in particular, which of course was not their task) or setting out the old pill bottle.

What's more likely --

ER who had no known addiction to oxy, took his expired Rx which would NEVER have the street additive), would leave the pill bottle where young children could access it, but somehow died of an overdose of street fentanyl?

Or KR poisoned him with fentanyl purchased through CL from RC, staged his pills and staged gummies, a presplain for an overdose?

Thank you for that link! I wondered how they would tie the drug dealer to fentanyl.

In the video, the dealer said he gave Kouri's friend M30s. During the trial, he mentioned blue pills.

A quick online search says that M30 is a small, round, light-blue pill designed to mimic 30mg oxycodone tablets, but often contains lethal doses of fentanyl and other synthetic opiods.

My interpretation is that the dealer sold Kouri's friend M30 pills that looked like oxycodone, but were laced with fentanyl.

KR repeatedly ask for strong, than stronger pain pulls for her "investor friend". CL reached out to RC again, then back to KR to inform her that RC had fentanyl. She asked KR if she wanted it. (KR was asking for the MichaelJackson drug profonol.) KR said yes.

We don't have to take oral testimony as gospel blindly. The calls and texts support the testimony.

RC changed his testimony. A dealer who lies? Guessing that's as common as... air. The atmosphere is rife with it.

He said he wasn't dealing with fentanyl back then, and that 'blues' were prescription oxys. Then he went on to say he only knows fentanyl as purple.

I know NOTHING of the drug world and I know that fentanyl is blue, and later in a rainbow of colors.

Distancing himself from a death by fentanyl that he sold. And we won't likely know the outcome but lying under oath may have been his second worst decision, he stands to lose his sweetheart immunity. Dumb. But no one ever claimed he was smart.

I hope that tweezers gets more air time. If KR handled pills with tweezers, there's a high chance that she would not want to handle them with her hands.

Bottom line, KR had access to fentanyl and fentanyl killed ER, 5x over. And not JUST fentanyl but fentanyl with the marker distinguishing it from pharmaceutically manufactured fentanyl.

Much as we might want to know HOW she did it, it's not a necessary element for conviction.

Did she trick him? Did he think he was taking his old Rx, did she make him drowsy first, with her Rx and then what? Offer him some homemade nyquil or somesearch -- sugar water with dissolved fentanyl? Something he didn't sip but gulped. We may never know.

There was NO REASON outside of KR's motive for ER to suddenly have an addiction to and high tolerance for fentanyl.

I think Monday/Tuesday's testimony will drive it home.

JMO

JMO

 

[303gmf]

Oh!! Was it cause she wasnt living the Mormon values?

Clearly the opposite!

 

[legalmomma]

sold tainted M30 pills connects her with fentanyl.

This is the problem with the state's case so far. They have not connected fentanyl with Kouri. They do have the dealer's comments during his interrogation that was shown in court that he sold fentanyl, but he later recanted on the stand, saying he only sold ocycodone. They need to introduce evidence/testimony that M30's were often mixed with fentanyl too.
The circumstantial evidence such as the money/debt motive, affair, emails from her about a bad marriage along with testimony etc is abundant. Hopefully that will be enough but so far I still would have reasonable doubt if a juror. (although I think she probably did it)

 

[ttjo]

Clearly the opposite!

Thanks I didnt know, I know she said she loved to drink, but must have been other stuff toI
Her writing that book about grieving would have been maddening for them too. That fits with how Kouri operated tho, trying to create narratives.She seemed to create alternative’s to what people might think. IE. was that boyfriend really an affair, or was it a set up for him to be the fall guy.

 

[tlcya]

Oh!! I also read it started in greece when Eric told his sisters he thought Kouri tried to poison him, then again in 2022 with the sandwich incident. No doubt it caused them to be cautious about her.

Victim’s sister tells court Kouri Richins was ‘greedy,’ ‘desperate’

This week's court appearance by Kouri Richins, a Kamas mother of three accused of killing her husband Eric, gave the public a glimpse into how his family is processing the murder charge.

www.kpcw.org

I suspect it started when Kouri was no longer asked/needed to work in Eric and Cody's business (C&E Stone Masonry, LLC.) early on both Kouri and Cody's wife assisted them in the business working in the office. At some point kouri was "no longer needed" in that capacity. Was it because she was playing fast and lose with company money?

Also I just found out that Kouri and Eric met at her job at home depot, had their first child in 2012 followed by them marrying in 2013 so yeah, cart came before the horse, and possibly the reason his family may not have cared for her, and may have considered her someone who "trapped" their son/brother into marrying her, so it makes more sense now the prenup. He'd already had one divorce that left him with potentially only half of his assets.

Eric and Kouri Richins met in 2009, while she was employed as a cashier at Home Depot. The two would have a child in 2012 and marry in 2013. Eric Richins and a business partner owned C&E Stone Masonry, LLC. A premarital agreement between Eric and Kouri Richins stated that she would only have a claim to his business in the event he died before her while they were married.

Utah mom accused of killing her husband charged with mortgage fraud, money laundering

the prenup (since she was unaware of the trust he later created) was what motivated Kouri to murder IMO

 

[ttjo]

I suspect it started when Kouri was no longer asked/needed to work in Eric and Cody's business (C&E Stone Masonry, LLC.) early on both Kouri and Cody's wife assisted them in the business working in the office. At some point kouri was "no longer needed" in that capacity. Was it because she was playing fast and lose with company money?

Also I just found out that Kouri and Eric met at her job at home depot, had their first child in 2012 followed by them marrying in 2013 so yeah, cart came before the horse, and possibly the reason his family may not have cared for her, and may have considered her someone who "trapped" their son/brother into marrying her, so it makes more sense now the prenup. He'd already had one divorce that left him with potentially only half of his assets.


Utah mom accused of killing her husband charged with mortgage fraud, money laundering

the prenup (since she was unaware of the trust he later created) was what motivated Kouri to murder IMO

OK now we are cooking with gas, that makes a lot more sense now. They probably think she trapped him right from the get go.

 

[Megnut]

And convenient for KR, ER is not here to defend himself.

Belittle her?

He wanted her to get help.

Belittle her?

She stole $250,000 from a house she had 0% equity in. She knew what the prenup stipulated.

Belittle her?

Protect his assets.

KR was failing at flipping big.

If anything, at the time of his death, perhaps KR was promising to pay him back, from the proceeds of her big sale. That may have been worth celebrating.

What he didn't know -- she wouldn't be paying him back. In fact, the sale wouldn't balance her books. She didn't HAVE $250K to repay him, only grave debt.

The life insurance she did collect didn't stop the hemorrhaging either. Money that was supposed to go to her, presumably also to care for the children. Instead it was gone in mere months, eaten by her revolving debt and crushing interest payments.

Bad wife.
Bad mom.
Bad friend.
Bad investor.
Bad person.

JMO