"White Privilege Conference" In Colorado?

[Nova]

I don't consider their past sufferring to be that serious. (anymore)That horse to beat died 200 years ago and it's time to turn the page in the history books and move on to CURRENT sufferring of blacks.

As you know, Glitch, I lived in your town 30 years ago and my family lived there until about 5 years ago. Sorry, but things there aren't completely different from centuries past, though of course African Americans are no longer "legal" slaves. I got just a taste of the reality for blacks while dating an African American woman.

(I'm not suggesting Tallahassee has any corner on racism. I mention it by name only because you live there.)

As for your point that there are problems in black communities that are not the direct and immediate result of intentional white oppression, yes, that's true. But most of the systemic problems result at least in part from past discriminations.

And regardless, if African Americans contribute to their own problems (as do we all), that's hardly an argument in favor of Don Imus adding racial slurs to the mix. (ETA: Oops, sorry. I got my threads confused. Forget Don Imus for the moment. The purpose of the conference is to examine the historic and systemic privilege assumed by whites as a group. That's still relevant, even if it doesn't explain EVERY aspect of a black person's life. For the record and despite the excesses of a few activists, I've never heard an African American claim that whites were responsible for all difficulties s/he faced. I think that's more an impression we get from the media where the most extreme argument gets the attention.)

 

[Marthatex]

I don't see anyone anywhere talking about what was done 200 years ago. Slavery existed....and comments like Imus's re-open old wounds...that's all. I look at it this way, if I choose to listen to a rap song, then I expect that I may here references to ho's and the "n"word...I don't expect it when discussing a woman's basketball team on a radio show, that makes the difference. I don't see how Imus's comments can be compared to what rappers do. It's a totally seperate issue.


As far as slavery..My gg grandfather had a huge plantation in North Carolina, he owned over 300 slaves. I was taught that black people were different. I remember asking my grandmother when I was five if black people had the same color of blood as us...and she said yes! Of course, then I had to ask what the difference was between me and them. I never understood her answers but now realize that she grew up in a totally different time. She was the ONLY one in my family who didn't threaten to disown me (some did) when I started dating a black man. I guess my point is...I was never colorblind. I started writing poetry when I was six and my first writings (which I still have) were about equality and justice. I still write about those things as if I lived a life of oppression. I see it and I feel it. Don't know why. I'm a ghostwriter (for now) and if you heard some of my lyrics (maybe you have) you would never believe a white person wrote them.

That's cool; I'm a writer also - poetry, stories, newspaper articles (kind of a lazy free-lancer, at best), but I do enjoy it.

I also was brought up in a home where I was taught I was not better than others and not to discriminate; tho' some were less fortunate than we or simply did not have the opportunities we did.

I don't think slavery should be minimized, nor should the Holocaust, the Japanese prison camps, etc. If we don't remember history, we will repeat it.

But at the same time, we need to recognize when a talk show host or personality has CROSSED THE LINE and may have done emotional damage. In that case, reparations need to be made (apology); but whether he should have lost his job, I can't determine.

 

[narlacat]

The case of the Black colleges is a perfect example of the "white privilege" concept. Such colleges were created in the past because it was the ONLY way for blacks to achieve a college education. The fact that they continue to be identified as black colleges demonstrates their differential status. Whites are allowed to attend, but they do not (in any significant number), despite the good reputations of the schools.

If you actually took the time to visit these schools, I bet that you would see plenty of students there who appear "white". In america, you are black if you have even the smallest amount of "black blood". That is due to the historical efforts to oppress and separate out anyone who was not "pure white".

It's the same here in Australia, if you can prove you are even 1/8 Aboriginal- you get all their benefits.
I have a friend who tells me she is part Aboriginal- she has red hair and freckles!

 

[Cypros]

It's the same here in Australia, if you can prove you are even 1/8 Aboriginal- you get all their benefits.
I have a friend who tells me she is part Aboriginal- she has red hair and freckles!

Benefits? I don't know what benefits the Aborigines receive today in Australia, but I do know that the history of oppression of Australian Aborigines is just as appalling as the oppression of blacks here in the US. I don't see many benefits of being black in America.

Ironic isn't it. For years and years it was deemed perfectly okay to oppress people who were not "pure white" by labeling them black based on just a small percentage of black blood. But today when they use the exact same standards to identify themselves as black it is now perceived by whites as ridiculous. I guess the 1/8th rule is only logical when it is for the benefit of whites.

 

[narlacat]

Benefits? I don't know what benefits the Aborigines receive today in Australia, but I do know that the history of oppression of Australian Aborigines is just as appalling as the oppression of blacks here in the US. I don't see many benefits of being black in America.

Ironic isn't it. For years and years it was deemed perfectly okay to oppress people who were not "pure white" by labeling them black based on just a small percentage of black blood. But today when they use the exact same standards to identify themselves as black it is now perceived by whites as ridiculous. I guess the 1/8th rule is only logical when it is for the benefit of whites.

Cypros I think you may have misunderstood my previous post-

Just as, if not worse- the Aboriginals have had and continue to have a rough trot- I’m not sure exactly what benefits they get- but they do get benefits that white people aren’t eligible for- given more time I would google but I am behind time as I type-

I don’t think it’s ridiculous- they deserve everything they get and more as far as I’m concerned- our Government still won’t say ‘sorry’ as that would be an admission of guilt- and god knows the poor Aboriginals might want some kind of compensation- maybe even want something back which was theirs to begin with-

They have been treated appallingly, literally thousands upon thousands killed in cold blood- its no small wonder they have a chip on their shoulder- they continue to live as second class citizens in some parts of the country-

I only mentioned my friend because there will always be people who want something for nothing-

Ps Have you seen Rabbit Proof Fence?

 

[Shazza]

Cypros I think you may have misunderstood my previous post-

Just as, if not worse- the Aboriginals have had and continue to have a rough trot- I’m not sure exactly what benefits they get- but they do get benefits that white people aren’t eligible for- given more time I would google but I am behind time as I type-

I don’t think it’s ridiculous- they deserve everything they get and more as far as I’m concerned- our Government still won’t say ‘sorry’ as that would be an admission of guilt- and god knows the poor Aboriginals might want some kind of compensation- maybe even want something back which was theirs to begin with-

They have been treated appallingly, literally thousands upon thousands killed in cold blood- its no small wonder they have a chip on their shoulder- they continue to live as second class citizens in some parts of the country-

I only mentioned my friend because there will always be people who want something for nothing-

Ps Have you seen Rabbit Proof Fence?

I have seen that movie Rabbit Proof Fence, it is based on true facts and depicts the heartache of some of the horrific things that has happened to Aboriginals. If you are aboriginal here, there are things that they are entitled to that other Australians are not, we are suppose to be trying to live as one but sometimes it is the fault of aboriginal and the government that does not allow this, there will always be friction between the two. I really hope you understand what Im saying, I find it hard sometimes to write in words what I think. I am not taking sides, just stating my opinion.

 

[narlacat]

I have seen that movie Rabbit Proof Fence, it is based on true facts and depicts the heartache of some of the horrific things that has happened to Aboriginals. If you are aboriginal here, there are things that they are entitled to that other Australians are not, we are suppose to be trying to live as one but sometimes it is the fault of aboriginal and the government that does not allow this, there will always be friction between the two. I really hope you understand what Im saying, I find it hard sometimes to write in words what I think. I am not taking sides, just stating my opinion.

I’d like to think that isn’t a pipe dream- but that isnt the reality as I type-

I think I understand what you are trying to say- we have huge problems with Aboriginals, social and otherwise- throwing money at them is not the answer- we’ve done that and it didnt work-

The benefits they receive are a short term solution and really don’t help Aboriginals as a whole- what they receive is guilt benefits- which isn't helping them and isn't making up for the past- I feel really sorry for indigenous Australians....I really like it when one gets up- and makes it as an actress or as a politician- good for them- against the odds.

 

[Shazza]

I’d like to think that isn’t a pipe dream- but that isnt the reality as I type-

I think I understand what you are trying to say- we have huge problems with Aboriginals, social and otherwise- throwing money at them is not the answer- we’ve done that and it didnt work-

The benefits they receive are a short term solution and really don’t help Aboriginals as a whole- what they receive is guilt money that isn’t helping them or us-

They need to be better educated and treated the same as everybody else,and sometimes times I think they think they are owed something, the past is the past, you just have to keep moving forward and get on with life.

 

[narlacat]

They need to be better educated and treated the same as everybody else,and sometimes times I think they think they are owed something, the past is the past, you just have to keep moving forward and get on with life.

As a whole- they are owed something- their dignity for starters...we have robbed them of that- what we see is the result of our labour :doh:

They have turned to alcohol, drugs and crime- and as a result their life expectancy is something like 20 years less than that of you and me- how sad that their race will someday die out- they lived here for millions of years- what right did we have..

 

[Cypros]

Yes, I have seen Rabbit Proof Fence and use it in my Cultural Anthropology class. It is an excellent movie and so beautifully done.

I agree with you, narlacat, that the Aborigines deserve the benefits they receive today. Their people and culture were desecrated by the White Men who invaded their land.

My point about your fair freckled friend is why shouldn't she get the benefits? The White Man's rule about only a small amount of black blood making someone aboriginal was used to deny her ancestors basic human rights, so why not use the same rule to define Aborigines today? -- this time for benefit!

 

[GlitchWizard]

As you know, Glitch, I lived in your town 30 years ago and my family lived there until about 5 years ago. Sorry, but things there aren't completely different from centuries past, though of course African Americans are no longer "legal" slaves. I got just a taste of the reality for blacks while dating an African American woman.
(I'm not suggesting Tallahassee has any corner on racism. I mention it by name only because you live there.)
As for your point that there are problems in black communities that are not the direct and immediate result of intentional white oppression, yes, that's true. But most of the systemic problems result at least in part from past discriminations.
And regardless, if African Americans contribute to their own problems (as do we all), that's hardly an argument in favor of Don Imus adding racial slurs to the mix. (ETA: Oops, sorry. I got my threads confused. Forget Don Imus for the moment. The purpose of the conference is to examine the historic and systemic privilege assumed by whites as a group. That's still relevant, even if it doesn't explain EVERY aspect of a black person's life. For the record and despite the excesses of a few activists, I've never heard an African American claim that whites were responsible for all difficulties s/he faced. I think that's more an impression we get from the media where the most extreme argument gets the attention.)

I haven't read the first thing on Don Imus - so I wasn't addressing whatever that is at all. I disagree that Tallahassee hasn't changed much in the past few centuries. I lived here when I was in the 80's and I recall Leon High School Gym during pep rallies - blacks on one side as we filed in, whites on the other. I remember wondering why at the time, since I usually got there first and didn't make a conscious decision to sit on a "white" side. I recall getting attacked by three black guys, one with a knife, threatening to rape me - but "officer friendly" at the school saw it and handled it. I recall that NO ONE interracially dated AT ALL - the first time I saw that was in Indiana over summer break. It's common here now. It's common to see mixed friendship groups and clubs of all races now. It's changed just since 1985 - so I know over centuries it must have even more.
It doesn't matter what caused the initial thrust of a current problem. You don't try to patch a tiny leak in a roof when the roof has collapsed - you rip off the crappy roof and you reinstall one that works. That's what we need to do with these areas that are cultivating more crime, more hate, more deaths - rip them wide open and wash out the problems - create a NEW initial thrust of education, opportunity and healthy living.
200 years ago is important for the storybooks. Are we still going to be worried about this for the next 200 years, or will we write NEW history by doing something NOW to fix TODAY's problems.
In 200 years the storybooks can say: "There was slavery 400 years ago"
Or
In 200 years the storybooks can say: "200 years ago, we wiped out poverty, gangs and illiteracy in this country."
I know what I'd like to have my future family read about.

All that aside, you getting a "taste" for blacks by dating a black woman made me snort out my milk this morning. Thanks for that!

 

[Shazza]

As a whole- they are owed something- their dignity for starters...we have robbed them of that- what we see is the result of our labour :doh:

They have turned to alcohol, drugs and crime- and as a result their life expectancy is something like 20 years less than that of you and me- how sad that their race will someday die out- they lived here for millions of years- what right did we have..

People have options, there are aboriginals out there who are icons for Australia, they made the choice to do something with their lives, no one is shoving alcohol or drugs down their throat, that is a decision they made, no one told them to commit a crime, that was also their decision, we cannot be blamed for their actions as we are not blamed for similar actions made by the white australians who also commit offences. I dont think we robbed them of their dignity, they have the same entitlements and more but they choose not to participate.They need to get of their bottoms and do something with their lives instead of blaming others for their downfalls. I know a long time ago they were treated badly, but that doesnt happen anymore, they cant keep living in the past. Life is too short as it is so lets just move upward and onward.

 

[narlacat]

People have options, there are aboriginals out there who are icons for Australia, they made the choice to do something with their lives, no one is shoving alcohol or drugs down their throat, that is a decision they made, no one told them to commit a crime, that was also their decision, we cannot be blamed for their actions as we are not blamed for similar actions made by the white australians who also commit offences. I dont think we robbed them of their dignity, they have the same entitlements and more but they choose not to participate.They need to get of their bottoms and do something with their lives instead of blaming others for their downfalls. I know a long time ago they were treated badly, but that doesnt happen anymore, they cant keep living in the past. Life is too short as it is so lets just move upward and onward.

Shaz, whilst I am googling you some sad statistics on how poorly we still treat the Aboriginals- I'd like to know who the Aboriginal icons are- off the top of my head I can think of Ernie Dingo, Deborah Mailman and there's one polly that I just cant think of his name.
It is not the norm to be Aboriginal and famous- who were you referring to?

 

[narlacat]

Oh I forgot about David Gulpilil

http://welovefilm.blogspot.com/2007/02/aboriginal-movie-star-plays-out-real.html

An interesting article.

 

[narlacat]

People have options, there are aboriginals out there who are icons for Australia, they made the choice to do something with their lives,no one is shoving alcohol or drugs down their throat, that is a decision they made, no one told them to commit a crime, that was also their decision, we cannot be blamed for their actions as we are not blamed for similar actions made by the white australians who also commit offences. I dont think we robbed them of their dignity, they have the same entitlements and more but they choose not to participate.They need to get of their bottoms and do something with their lives instead of blaming others for their downfalls. I know a long time ago they were treated badly, but that doesnt happen anymore, they cant keep living in the past. Life is too short as it is so lets just move upward and onward.

But some people have less options than others-

I’m not quite sure how you can say that Shaz- we most certainly did rob them of their dignity- we desecrated everything that was sacred to them, we murdered them in cold blood, we destroyed their families and tried to make them to adhere to ‘white man rules’ and to do things they way we did things-

It wasn’t that long ago and I'm afraid they are still treated badly-

What you just said is what the average Aussie thinks and that’s sad- like I said earlier- what we see is the fruits of our labour- we should be doing everything we can to help them regain their culture- seeing as we are the reason they lost it in the first place

A couple of links with some interesting information

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4256633.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3856187.stm

http://www.eniar.org/news/draftdecleration.htmlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3856187.stm

 

[GreenEyedGirl]

But some people have less options than others-

I’m not quite sure how you can say that Shaz- we most certainly did rob them of their dignity- we desecrated everything that was sacred to them, we murdered them in cold blood, we destroyed their families and tried to make them to adhere to ‘white man rules’ and to do things they way we did things-

It wasn’t that long ago and I'm afraid they are still treated badly-

What you just said is what the average Aussie thinks and that’s sad- like I said earlier- what we see is the fruits of our labour- we should be doing everything we can to help them regain their culture- seeing as we are the reason they lost it in the first place

A couple of links with some interesting information

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4256633.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/3856187.stm

http://www.eniar.org/news/draftdecleration.htmlhttp://www.eniar.org/news/draftdecleration.htmlhttp://www.eniar.org/news/draftdecleration.htmlhttp://www.eniar.org/news/draftdecleration.html

First of all, it wasn't "we, who robbed them of their dignity", it was our ancestors. And, it wasn't "we who murdered them in cold blood", it was their ancestors that were murdered. It was a horrible thing that happened. However, that was quite a few years ago and things have changed dramatically since then. There is no reason whatsoever that we cannot all live in harmony amongst each other. Unfortunately, the race card is brought in to entirely too many issues. It's getting disgusting. Grow up already.

 

[narlacat]

First of all, it wasn't "we, who robbed them of their dignity", it was our ancestors. And, it wasn't "we who murdered them in cold blood", it was their ancestors that were murdered. It was a horrible thing that happened. However, that was quite a few years ago and things have changed dramatically since then. There is no reason whatsoever that we cannot all live in harmony amongst each other. Unfortunately, the race card is brought in to entirely too many issues. It's getting disgusting. Grow up already.

Um excuse me GreenEyedGirl

It is our present government that wont say sorry-

And I think you'll find not too much has changed lately for the Aboriginals- they continue to live in third world conditions in parts of our country- that's a fact and given more time I will try and come up with links to show you just how far behind the eight ball they are.

 

[Shazza]

Um excuse me GreenEyedGirl

It is our present government that wont say sorry-

And I think you'll find not too much has changed lately for the Aboriginals- they continue to live in third world conditions in parts of our country- that's a fact and given more time I will try and come up with links to show you just how far behind the eight ball they are.

Narla I understand what you are saying, but leave the past in the past, as one poster said it was our ancestors who did the damage that we expect our current government to say sorry for. There has to come a time when enough is enough, and move on.

Cathy Freeman is another aboriginal who is an Australian Icon, there are others in fashion design and art, but will have to google their names as I cant recall them off hand.

The aboriginals are given a lot of services and help from the government, okay housing is an issue, but I live not far from an housing commission estate for white australians, and the housing they live in is not as good as some of the housing the aboriginal community have, Ive seen both.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this Narla, I mean no hard feelings to you, I just have a different opinion.:blowkiss:

 

[narlacat]

Narla I understand what you are saying, but leave the past in the past, as one poster said it was our ancestors who did the damage that we expect our current government to say sorry for. There has to come a time when enough is enough, and move on.

Cathy Freeman is another aboriginal who is an Australian Icon, there are others in fashion design and art, but will have to google their names as I cant recall them off hand.

The aboriginals are given a lot of services and help from the government, okay housing is an issue, but I live not far from an housing commission estate for white australians, and the housing they live in is not as good as some of the housing the aboriginal community have, Ive seen both.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this Narla, I mean no hard feelings to you, I just have a different opinion.:blowkiss:

I can see what you are saying Shaz- no worries, no hard feelings no :blowkiss:

I just feel sorry for them and that is not right either- they don't want our pity-

 

[Shazza]

I can see what you are saying Shaz- no worries, no hard feelings no :blowkiss:

I just feel sorry for them and that is not right either- they don't want our pity-

You are a compassionate person Narla, I feel sorry for people who are down on their luck, black or white, but what can we do to make it easier for them. I donate to charities that help the less fortunate, and I have friends who are of aboriginal dissent that I respect, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty I have to take care of my own family. I wish I could do more but it is just not possible.