"Who would leave children that young alone?"

[badhorsie]

Where might I find Tanner's statement to LP online? Thanks in advance

 

[fabgod]

TIMELINE according to 4th May police statements

8.30 - 9.00 JW goes to tapas toilet sometime between 8.30 to 9
8.30 JT leaves appt for Tapas bar alone
8.30 GM states GM and KM went to Tapas bar
8.31 KM states KM and GM went to tapas bar (just after 8.30)
8.45 MO states MO and RO leave appt for Tapas bar
8.55 DP states he and FP arrive at Tapas (they never leave tapas due to having baby monitor)
8.55 JT states MO leaves tapas bar to go and hurry up the Paynes (JT says a few minutes to 9)
9.00 Russell O Brien arrives at Tapas
9.00 RO states DP and FP arrive at Tapas bar
9.00 DW states DW DP and FP arrive at tapas bar
DW states that they passed no one on the way to tapas bar,
she categorically states she did not pass MO or GM on route
9.00 KM states around 9pm, GM went to check on children
9.02 RoB states MO left to do check
9.02 RO states MO returns to Tapas bar from check on children
9.05 MO checks on children listens at window, all windows closed
(notably the window that gives access to Madeleines room)
MO returns to Tapas bar and then GM leaves to check
5 minutes after leaving table GM returns (this would be 9.10pm according to MO)
9.05 GM enters apartment using key to door
uses toilet leaves by patio door
JW sees GM at gates to steps
JW speaks to GM for 3 to 5 minutes at bottom of steps
JW goes back to apartment has dinner watches dvd goes to bed about 11pm
9.07 app RoB states GM and JT leave to do checks roughly about same time.
RoB states JT may have returned first as she saw GM talking
9.10 Jane Tanner states GM leaves to do check
9.15 JT leaves to check (15 minutes after her husband had last checked)
(JT states that normally a person from each apartment checks every 15 mins)
9.15 RO states GM went to check on his children
9.17 JT walks past JW and GM talking on same side of road as apartment
9.17 - 9.18 JT sees man with child goes to her apt, checks children
9.22 - 9.25app JT returns to Tapas bar
15 to 20 mins later RoB and MO leave tapas to check children
RoB stays in apt child is sick
9.25 RO states GM returns from his check
9.25 MO went into his apt and McCann apt, he states the door was open enough to see the twins,
but not Madeleine
9.25 -9.30 RoB states GM returns to tapas and starts to eat starter
9.30 KM states MO offers to do KM check, she states he went through the patio door to the bedroom door
9.30 GM states MO went to appt and checked via patio doors the McCann appt
9.30 RO states MO and RoB leave tapas to do check
9.35 RO states MO returns from check (she states MO entered McCann appt through sliding door)
9.35 - 9.40 Rob states he and MO went to check on children after starters and before main course.
RoB stays with child as she is ill, 15 minutes later JT arrives at appt

light in childrens bedroom not artificial, perhaps from outside from the bedroom window
He states that the shutter in GM and KM bedroom may have been open
MO states the door he entered through was the glass door which was unlocked
9.55 RoB returns to Tapas, via front door (all other doors are locked)
10 MO states KM went to check, then came back shouting, everyone went to check, Madeleines bedroom window and shutter were open
10 GM states KM went to check on children
10 KM states she went to check children, she went in trhough patio door,hich was closed, but unlocked, as already said,
and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open,
the shutters raised and the curtains open


Notes.
DW states that KM told her repeatedly that the windows were open and shutters open, DW did not notice them being and indeed went ooutside to check.
She, DW, could not open the shutter from outside which implies that after 10.05 (the time she went to McCann appt) the shutters were closed.
DW states that none of the group had cars or access to cars
DW states that None of the croup left PdL

GM states KM found the windows, shutters open, the curtains pulled back, GM states the side door leading to the living room was closed

MO states that GM will have made his 9.05 check because GM will not have heard MO had checked the McCanns appt

Going back to the Jeremy Wilkins statements, I have read his 4th may statement, he is very clear that he met Gerry McCann
at the bottom of the steps to the patio doors.
The conversation lasted 3 to 5 minutes, Gerry McCann seemed normal at this point.
Mr Wilkins states that he didnt remember anyone else walk past with a child, he also never mentions JT being in the area


The distance from tapas bar to the front doors of apartments is 117 yards(1min 15 seconds)
73 yards(47 seconds at 1.56 yards per second)of the route is out of sight of apartment doors
I timed a brisk walk of the same distance by myself today to get a rough estimate of walking times

 

[brit1981]

I actually went back and read Jane Tanners statements to Lecieister Police - It was good to go back and read what she said - aslo because it was in English - no bad tarnslation issues - it actual explained things a lot and was worth going back to see what she said as opposed to rumour and internet myth.

It is pretty crucial as she could have witnesed the abduction - though who knows. but it does clarify a number of issues that keep cropping up about her lying !! - If you read it in its entirety it paints a pretty vivid picture of the week .

It goes through the sighting in accurate detail - her thoughts and what happened . It sorts out the Jez/Gerry position and also the timings

I had heard she changed her story a lot, but if you read the actual statements, she has made a consistenct account throughout. There was a small inconsistency regarding the height, but that was because the height was originally written metricly whereas she had given it in imperial.

 

[gord]

Where might I find Tanner's statement to LP online? Thanks in advance

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

scroll down to the Jane Tanner interviews - there are 4 seperate ones taken place on the same day - all very detailed with a DC from Leceister Police = with the PJ in the same room as well .

 

[fabgod]

Jane Tanner map
4th May 2007

1. entrance to Tapas club and restaurant
2. pathway between swimming pool and apartments
3. Where Jane Tanner says she swa Gerry MCCann and Jeremy Wilkins
in conversation
note 3, is at the side of apartment 5a
4. Where JAne Tanner says she saw the man with child from
5. location of man with child walking across road towards 8.
6. car park, they had to walk across the car park to gain access to the apartments
7. front door area to apartment 5a

the distance from Jane Tanner to the man was described as anywhere between 5 metres and 50 metres.
For the distance to have been 50 metres she would have had to see him from
about 3 metres below 1. on the map

The distance between where Jane Tanner puts herself on the map and the man with child again, on the map is around 17 metres

 

[Donjeta]

And as long as people do not bother to ensure their children get to school safely there will be children come to harm, but I woudl never be so mean spirited to harp on and on about how the parents are responsible for the harm

What if it is mean to the children who will get harmed not to warn the parents?

 

[fabgod]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

scroll down to the Jane Tanner interviews - there are 4 seperate ones taken place on the same day - all very detailed with a DC from Leceister Police = with the PJ in the same room as well .

The rogatory interviews were a year later, I would guess that a day later would be clearer in their minds as to what happened

 

[Donjeta]

I just find it very odd that GM and JW didn't see JT because she puts herself on the same side of the street and if she walked in a straight path she'd basically have walked between them.

 

[Cappuccino]

What if it is mean to the children who will get harmed not to warn the parents?

Don't you think the McCanns have already told themselves this a million and more times over? Don't you think everybody posting here already knows as much as you know about child safety?

Time to stop :deadhorse:

 

[gord]

The rogatory interviews were a year later, I would guess that a day later would be clearer in their minds as to what happened

I doubt that they will remember every detail for the rest of their lives - JT will probably be haunted by that sighting - I know I would

the sketch maps were all done on the evening -

Anyway between the statements ity will give an idea of glaring wrongs - glaring lies if you want.

One thing I found interesting - in her statement to LP - she said that teh PJ never took her back to the site to get her to show until much later

 

[fabgod]

So looking at the original statements, if the "man with child" was indeed the abductor, then he had to have taken her after Gerry McCann saw Madeleine in the bedroom at 9.05
and before Jane Tanner saw "the man with child" whilst Gerry was talking to Jeremy Wilkins.
By the statements,
Matthew Oldfield had listened at Madeleines window just before Gerry went to check and the shutters were down.
Russell o Brien states that Gerry and Jane Tanner leave at roughly the same time, so allowing 5 minutes to be generous, that means Gerry had made a two minute walk to the apartment, checked the children, gone to the toilet, left the appartment via the unlocked patio doors walked down a flight of steps and got into conversation with Jeremy Wilkins,
before, Jane Tanner walks past them both (they dont see her) and immediately sees "the man with child"

There isnt enough time for it to have happened, thats even before you factor in the time it would take for "man with child" to walk out of apartment (or climb out of window, pass child out of window etc), then walk across car park and onto road.

 

[fabgod]

I doubt that they will remember every detail for the rest of their lives - JT will probably be haunted by that sighting - I know I would

the sketch maps were all done on the evening -

Anyway between the statements ity will give an idea of glaring wrongs - glaring lies if you want.

One thing I found interesting - in her statement to LP - she said that teh PJ never took her back to the site to get her to show until much later

I think I read that the PJ asked Jane Tanner to make a sketch at the interview, but its neither here nor there, the earlier the better.

Nobody said anything about lies, I don't think whoever she saw was an abductor with Madeleine, thats not to say she was lying.

 

[fabgod]

Don't you think the McCanns have already told themselves this a million and more times over? Don't you think everybody posting here already knows as much as you know about child safety?

Time to stop :deadhorse:

You are going to be in a whole lot of trouble for the way you are treating that Donkey ( i was going to say a** but I thought better of it :floorlaugh:

 

[gord]

So looking at the original statements, if the "man with child" was indeed the abductor, then he had to have taken her after Gerry McCann saw Madeleine in the bedroom at 9.05
and before Jane Tanner saw "the man with child" whilst Gerry was talking to Jeremy Wilkins.
By the statements,
Matthew Oldfield had listened at Madeleines window just before Gerry went to check and the shutters were down.
Russell o Brien states that Gerry and Jane Tanner leave at roughly the same time, so allowing 5 minutes to be generous, that means Gerry had made a two minute walk to the apartment, checked the children, gone to the toilet, left the appartment via the unlocked patio doors walked down a flight of steps and got into conversation with Jeremy Wilkins,
before, Jane Tanner walks past them both (they dont see her) and immediately sees "the man with child"

There isnt enough time for it to have happened, thats even before you factor in the time it would take for "man with child" to walk out of apartment (or climb out of window, pass child out of window etc), then walk across car park and onto road.

of course it does it takes a minute to hand the child out of the window - Gerry spoke with Wilkins fro about 3 to 5 minutes - he could have been at the end of the convesration .

There is some theories that the guys was in the apartment when Gerry came to check - He could have been behind a door or anything - in another room . What I am saying it is not impossible - we cant just say it wasnt enough time so move on

 

[gord]

Jane Tanner leave at roughly the same time, so allowing 5 minutes to be generous, that means Gerry had made a two minute walk to the apartment, checked the children


in her statement to the LP she says that Gerry left quite a bit before she wentv to do her check - not at the same time -In fact the LP asked her twice and she was clear that gerry had left at least 5 minutes or more to do his check .

Gerry does his walk - 2 minutes
3 to 4 minutes check and then leave
Meets Jez and talks for 5 minutes

JT could have seen the bottom end of the convo and then walked on and had the glimpse of the man with child

 

[fabgod]

of course it does it takes a minute to hand the child out of the window - Gerry spoke with Wilkins fro about 3 to 5 minutes - he could have been at the end of the convesration .

There is some theories that the guys was in the apartment when Gerry came to check - He could have been behind a door or anything - in another room . What I am saying it is not impossible - we cant just say it wasnt enough time so move on

I agree with you, thats why I posted the timeline, so we can have a look at it.

Re Gerry saying someone could have been in the apartment, lets not gforget he states, he went in through the locked front door, he walked down the hall into the childrens room then into the toilet and exited through the unlocked patio doors, it only leaves GM/KM bedroom.
If the abductor was going in specifically for Madeleine, why would he have been in a different room, the only room that Gerry didnt check, possible but not that likely!

It might take a minute to hand someone out of a window, where is the other "someone", Jane Tanner was going in that direction, but she didnt see him/her?
Jeremy WIlkins, if your suggestion is right about being the end of conversation, was walking up to that area seconds later (potentially)

On top of that, the abductor still had to get in the apartment and then get out, all in the timeframe.

 

[Donjeta]

If the man sighted by JT was the abductor and he was in the apartment when Gerry was there he was a real risk taker because knowing that Gerry had just left the apartment he chose the escape route that would put him and Madeleine straight in Gerry's line of sight if he decided to linger on the path, which he did.

 

[fabgod]

Jane Tanner leave at roughly the same time, so allowing 5 minutes to be generous, that means Gerry had made a two minute walk to the apartment, checked the children


in her statement to the LP she says that Gerry left quite a bit before she wentv to do her check - not at the same time -

She doesnt say that in her earliest statement, neither does her partner.

I cant see the sense in going off interviews that were carried out 11 months later when there are interviews from less than a day after the event.

Surely, if there is less time to lose little details, and it is fresh in the mind, then that would be the statement to use?

 

[fabgod]

If the man sighted by JT was the abductor and he was in the apartment when Gerry was there he was a real risk taker because knowing that Gerry had just left the apartment he chose the escape route that would put him and Madeleine straight in Gerry's line of sight if he decided to linger on the path, which he did.

And only 5 minutes earlier Matthew Oldfield was at the bedroom window listening, which means Oldfiels was in the area for a couple of minutes earlier than that.
Plus, all the Tapas friends making their way to the Restaurant from that very area, he would have been a real risk taker.

The fact is, if "man with child" was Madeleine, the window of opportunity was nowhere near the much publicised 30 minutes, it was merely minutes if that.

 

[gord]

She doesnt say that in her earliest statement, neither does her partner.

I cant see the sense in going off interviews that were carried out 11 months later when there are interviews from less than a day after the event.

Surely, if there is less time to lose little details, and it is fresh in the mind, then that would be the statement to use?

Ok I take your point about 11 monhs later - but it wasnt just a new interview - it was to go over all her statemnents - The LP had her original statemnent as well . To save me looking again have you got a link I can check on the Portugese statemenents