Patsy was asked if JonBenet bathed Christmas day...her answer was no. I do not recall Detectives asking Patsy if JonBenet bathed Christmas Eve and that I believe is a big mistake.
Why would the Ramseys need to stage?
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Patsy was asked if JonBenet bathed Christmas day...her answer was no. I do not recall Detectives asking Patsy if JonBenet bathed Christmas Eve and that I believe is a big mistake.
Self-preservation is why the Ramseys needed to stage a crime. Patsy did not want to go to Prison, period.
Has anyone heard from BlueCrab??? He has a Burke did it theory and is convinced Burke commited the murder.
I am not convinced Burke killed JonBenet but I do have a BDI theory...
Burke and JonBenet were downstairs having a snack: Burke had tea while JonBenet had pineapple.
They proceeded to Burke's room where Burke than begans to play his Nintendo64. The game is sooo much fun that JonBenet wants a turn. Burke starts to get annoyed by JonBenet's persistent begging and when JonBenet does not get to play, she than pulls the controller out of the N64 console and ruins Burkes game. This enrages Burke and he grabs his baseball hat and strikes her with it. A loud crack is heard and he panics. He goes upstairs to wake Patsy and she takes it from there.
Has anyone heard from BlueCrab??? He has a Burke did it theory and is convinced Burke commited the murder.
I am not convinced Burke killed JonBenet but I do have a BDI theory...
Burke and JonBenet were downstairs having a snack: Burke had tea while JonBenet had pineapple.
They proceeded to Burke's room where Burke than begans to play his Nintendo64. The game is sooo much fun that JonBenet wants a turn. Burke starts to get annoyed by JonBenet's persistent begging and when JonBenet does not get to play, she than pulls the controller out of the N64 console and ruins Burkes game. This enrages Burke and he grabs his baseball hat and strikes her with it. A loud crack is heard and he panics. He goes upstairs to wake Patsy and she takes it from there.
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I have a Burke scenario as well. I don't think Patsy or John put the children to bed that night. I think John went straight to bed and left all the packing to Patsy, and she STILL wasn't done. She packed a bit, and went to bed leaving her children playing downstairs. She planned to finish in the morning. She seems like she can be a rather permissive parent to me.
Burke being a weird and extremely jealous little boy, was sexually abusing his sister, Jonbenet screamed, I think he could have bashed her head with the bat to shut her up. Patsy heard the scream & got up and found her. She had recently began to suspect what Burke was doing, and now caught him in the act. Believing her daughter was dead, and Burke killed her, her mind raced. Because.... things like sexual abuse don't happen in "good families" She decided to "save" her family, or what was left of it and staged and re-staged the scene. Took her the rest of the night.
With JonBenet gone, Burke finally got what he always wanted, to be an only child. He blossomed after her death. He had never been happier.
In this senario, John didn't take part and only began questioning his wife's involvement after he found the body.
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IMO Patsy was a permissive & lazy mother. She viewed her child as an object, and seen her as an extention of herself. She didn't vaule and appreciate JonBenet as an individual in her own right.
Patsy wanted to be seen as a "good mother" it was ALL superficial IMO. I'm not shocked at all she hadn't been bathed in days, Patsy was busy.
I agree BR seemed like a "weird" kid. And I think, like many siblings do, that he may have done some sexual exploration with his (trained-to-be-sexy) little sister. LHP claimed to have caught them under covers in BR's room. I will go so far as BR being able to wield a bat (golf club, flashlight) with force that might have caused JB's skull fracture. But at the point PR discovers this,
how does she deal with BR at that point? Tell him to go to his room and don't come out? The horror she would have felt at seeing JB unconscious at the hands of her brother would not be easily hidden or glossed over. I think we all agree he seemed strangely detached after JB's death, smilingly playing his new Nintendo and calmly leaving the house RIGHT after to go play at FW's house. I suppose PR (& JR) could have wanted to hide the fact that he'd actually KILLED her. But he was almost 10, for Pete's sake. He HAD to know he HURT her of he hit her with a something so hard she immediately collapsed. No WAY JB remained standing after a bash like that. So it kinda falls apart for me at the point Patsy finds them.
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Not if she's laying on the floor, appears dead and is missing her panties, and bleeding "down there"!
I think she sent him to his room and told him not to come out until someone came for him and to keep his mouth shut or he'd go to jail, she'd take care of it. Perhaps she shared this info at some point with John and he helped or maybe not
madeleine
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This is very interesting.And it's written by guess who...
http://www.crimeandclues.com/index....analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging
Staging
When investigators approach a crime scene, they should look for behavioral "clues" left by the offender. This is when investigators attempt to find answers to several critical questions. How did the encounter between the offender and victim occur? Did the offender blitz (ambush) the victim, or did he use verbal means (the con) to capture her? Did the offender use ligatures to control the victim? What was the sequence of events? Was the victim sexually assaulted before or after death? When did the mutilation take place--before or after death? Did the offender place any item at the crime scene or remove something from the crime scene?
As investigators analyze crime scenes, facts may arise that baffle them. These details may contain peculiarities that serve no apparent purpose in the perpetration2 of the crime and obscure the underlying motive of the crime. This confusion may be the result of a crime scene behavior called staging. Staging occurs when someone purposely alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police.
Reasons for Staging
Principally, staging takes place for two reasons--to direct the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or victim's family. It is the offender who attempts to redirect the investigation. This offender does not just happen to come upon a victim, but is someone who almost always has some kind of association or relationship with the victim. This person, when in contact with law enforcement, will attempt to steer the investigation away from himself, usually by being overly cooperative or extremely distraught. Therefore, investigators should never eliminate a suspect who displays such distinctive behavior.
The second reason for staging, to protect the victim or the victim's family, occurs for the most part in rape-murder crimes or autoerotic fatalities. This type of staging is performed by the family member or person who finds the body. Since perpetrators of such crimes leave their victims in degrading positions, those who find the bodies attempt to restore some dignity to the victim. For example, a husband may redress or cover his wife's body, or in the case of an autoerotic fatality,3 a wife may cut the noose or the device suspending the body of her husband.
Basically, these people are trying to prevent future shock that may be brought about by the position, dress, or condition of the victim. In addition, they will often stage an autoerotic fatality to look like a suicide, perhaps even writing a suicide note. They may even go so far as to the make it appear to be a homicide.
For both types of crime scene investigations, rape-murders and autoerotic fatalities, investigators need to obtain an accurate description of the body's condition when found and to determine exactly what the person who found the body did to alter the crime scene. Scrutiny of forensic findings, crime scene dynamics, and victimology will probably reveal the true circumstances surrounding the deaths.
Finally, at some crime scenes, investigators must discern if the scene is truly disorganized or if the offender staged it to appear careless and haphazard. This determination not only helps to direct the analysis to the underlying motive but also helps to shape the offender profile. However, recognition of staging, especially with a shrewd offender, can be difficult. Investigators must examine all factors of the crime if they suspect it has been staged. This is when forensics, victimology, and minute crime scene details become critical to determine if staging occurred.
"Red Flags"
Offenders who stage crime scenes usually make mistakes because they arrange the scene to resemble what they believe it should look like. In so doing, offenders experience a great deal of stress and do not have the time to fit all the pieces together logically. As a result, inconsistencies in forensic findings and in the overall "big picture" of the crime scene will begin to appear. These inconsistencies can serve as the "red flags" of staging, which serve to prevent investigations from becoming misguided.
To ensure this doesn't happen, investigators should scrutinize all crime scene indicators individually, then view them in context with the total picture. Crime scene indicators include all evidence of offender activity, e.g., method of entry, offender-victim interaction, and body disposition.
When exploring these issues, investigators should consider several factors. For example, if burglary appears to be the motive, did the offender take inappropriate items from the crime scene? In one case submitted to the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC), a man returning home from work interrupted a burglary in progress. The startled burglars killed him as he attempted to flee. But, an inventory of the crime scene determined that the offenders did not steal anything, although it did appear that they started to disassemble a large stereo and TV unit.
Further examination of the crime scene revealed that they left smaller, and easily transported, items of far greater value (jewelry, coin collection, etc.). The police subsequently determined that the victim's wife paid the burglars to stage the crime and kill her husband. She, in fact, was having an affair with one of the suspects.
Another factor to consider is the point of entry. Did the point of entry make sense? For example, did the offender enter the house through a second-story window, even though there was an easier, less conspicuous entrance that could have been used? Why did the offender increase his chance of being seen by potential witnesses who might alert authorities?
Investigators should also consider whether the offender put himself at high risk by committing the crime during the daylight hours, in a populated area. If the crime scene is a place of residence, they should also evaluate any obvious signs of occupancy, such as lights on in the house, vehicles in the driveway, etc.
http://www.crimeandclues.com/index....analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging
Staging
When investigators approach a crime scene, they should look for behavioral "clues" left by the offender. This is when investigators attempt to find answers to several critical questions. How did the encounter between the offender and victim occur? Did the offender blitz (ambush) the victim, or did he use verbal means (the con) to capture her? Did the offender use ligatures to control the victim? What was the sequence of events? Was the victim sexually assaulted before or after death? When did the mutilation take place--before or after death? Did the offender place any item at the crime scene or remove something from the crime scene?
As investigators analyze crime scenes, facts may arise that baffle them. These details may contain peculiarities that serve no apparent purpose in the perpetration2 of the crime and obscure the underlying motive of the crime. This confusion may be the result of a crime scene behavior called staging. Staging occurs when someone purposely alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police.
Reasons for Staging
Principally, staging takes place for two reasons--to direct the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or victim's family. It is the offender who attempts to redirect the investigation. This offender does not just happen to come upon a victim, but is someone who almost always has some kind of association or relationship with the victim. This person, when in contact with law enforcement, will attempt to steer the investigation away from himself, usually by being overly cooperative or extremely distraught. Therefore, investigators should never eliminate a suspect who displays such distinctive behavior.
The second reason for staging, to protect the victim or the victim's family, occurs for the most part in rape-murder crimes or autoerotic fatalities. This type of staging is performed by the family member or person who finds the body. Since perpetrators of such crimes leave their victims in degrading positions, those who find the bodies attempt to restore some dignity to the victim. For example, a husband may redress or cover his wife's body, or in the case of an autoerotic fatality,3 a wife may cut the noose or the device suspending the body of her husband.
Basically, these people are trying to prevent future shock that may be brought about by the position, dress, or condition of the victim. In addition, they will often stage an autoerotic fatality to look like a suicide, perhaps even writing a suicide note. They may even go so far as to the make it appear to be a homicide.
For both types of crime scene investigations, rape-murders and autoerotic fatalities, investigators need to obtain an accurate description of the body's condition when found and to determine exactly what the person who found the body did to alter the crime scene. Scrutiny of forensic findings, crime scene dynamics, and victimology will probably reveal the true circumstances surrounding the deaths.
Finally, at some crime scenes, investigators must discern if the scene is truly disorganized or if the offender staged it to appear careless and haphazard. This determination not only helps to direct the analysis to the underlying motive but also helps to shape the offender profile. However, recognition of staging, especially with a shrewd offender, can be difficult. Investigators must examine all factors of the crime if they suspect it has been staged. This is when forensics, victimology, and minute crime scene details become critical to determine if staging occurred.
"Red Flags"
Offenders who stage crime scenes usually make mistakes because they arrange the scene to resemble what they believe it should look like. In so doing, offenders experience a great deal of stress and do not have the time to fit all the pieces together logically. As a result, inconsistencies in forensic findings and in the overall "big picture" of the crime scene will begin to appear. These inconsistencies can serve as the "red flags" of staging, which serve to prevent investigations from becoming misguided.
To ensure this doesn't happen, investigators should scrutinize all crime scene indicators individually, then view them in context with the total picture. Crime scene indicators include all evidence of offender activity, e.g., method of entry, offender-victim interaction, and body disposition.
When exploring these issues, investigators should consider several factors. For example, if burglary appears to be the motive, did the offender take inappropriate items from the crime scene? In one case submitted to the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC), a man returning home from work interrupted a burglary in progress. The startled burglars killed him as he attempted to flee. But, an inventory of the crime scene determined that the offenders did not steal anything, although it did appear that they started to disassemble a large stereo and TV unit.
Further examination of the crime scene revealed that they left smaller, and easily transported, items of far greater value (jewelry, coin collection, etc.). The police subsequently determined that the victim's wife paid the burglars to stage the crime and kill her husband. She, in fact, was having an affair with one of the suspects.
Another factor to consider is the point of entry. Did the point of entry make sense? For example, did the offender enter the house through a second-story window, even though there was an easier, less conspicuous entrance that could have been used? Why did the offender increase his chance of being seen by potential witnesses who might alert authorities?
Investigators should also consider whether the offender put himself at high risk by committing the crime during the daylight hours, in a populated area. If the crime scene is a place of residence, they should also evaluate any obvious signs of occupancy, such as lights on in the house, vehicles in the driveway, etc.
DeeDee249,
There are inconsistecies or discontinuities in most BDI theories. One I consider curious is Burke asking on the '911 tape' "What did you find?" since this implies the parents and son do not share a common point of view. e.g. who was looking and for what and why? We would expect to hear at this point: "Did you find JonBenet?".
Burks is last on my list of suspects. At 10-years I doubt he would be entirely sexually motivated, 12-years maybe, but 10-years seems a bit young.
I reckon Burke was fully aware of events up to and including the pineapple snack, after this I'm not so sure. Either way he has obviously been schooled on what to and what not to say. Otherwise an ignorant Burke would simply tell the police "oh me, Mom and JonBenet had a snack when we arrived back from the party."
His detachment might be bacause he was detached from the latter stages of JonBenet's death and his parents telling what to say etc, simply adds to his sense of puzzlement, leading to our perception of him as 'weird', which is simply his response to familial trauma?
Patsy still has to be aware of prior molestation to make the decision to stage a crime-scene for Burke, otherwise she could just dial 911 and report a serious accident.
I reckon JonBenet was probably being molested on a regular basis by one or more of the Ramsay family, including the extended family, all these unmarried relatives, who knows!
They might even have been aware of this and said nothing since for them it was 'normal', but with JonBenet either having an accident whilst being molested or some kind of sexual rage being vented on her because she refused to participate or dress up etc. So being aware of the high probability of prior molestation this then makes staging a priority.
Even if its a bedwetting theory Patsy still has to be aware of prior molestation to decide to stage the crime-scene, otherwise they could just leave JonBenet in-situ e.g. bed, and blame it all on an intruder.
.
madeleine
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EDIT to add
Sexual and domestic homicides usually demonstrate forensic findings of a close-range, personal assault. The victim, not money or property, is the primary focus of the offender. However, this type of offender will often attempt to stage a sexual or domestic homicide that appears to be motivated by personal gain
madeleine
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If this isn't ironic.....the Ramsey's own profiler just convinced me that RDI IS possible....well,he wrote this article for the fbi as a real top expert that he is,not for money,and this is the J.Douglas that everybody RESPECTS.
pretty gross not to give your child a bath after 2 days and also pretty gross for you as a grown woman not to bathe and then put on the same clothes you had all day the previous day.
But I have a feeling PR was not very clean.
my_tee_mouse
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Especially a child who wets the bed and does not wipe very well.
joeskidbeck
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Here's my problem with this lie, the lie being Patsy not knowing when JB last bathed. I believe she knew without doubt that JB bathed before going to Christmas dinner that day. If she admits that she bathed that day and she knows which panties she had on, then all the rest of her testimony flies out the window. Patsy lied every single time she was questioned about anything simply because she knew if LE asked the question, it was important and she must lie to confuse the issue. As time went on she forgot what all she had lied about. The truth never changes. It's that simple. If Patsy had one time told the truth it would have been the same thing every time she told it. If she told the same story twice, I have yet to see it. Please, if you do know of one, please enlighten me.
Isn't it ironic that everyone followed his writings EXCEPT him?
joeskidbeck
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When I first read Douglas's profiles I had no idea that the Ramsey's had hired him. I know we have a thread on coincidences, but do we have one on ironies? Or did Douglas just expect everyone (including the FBI) to just forget what he had written? I must admit, I was very confused. :waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:
I think part of the staging was to cover or try to cover, prior sex abuse. maybe make it look like the kidnapper was responsible for all of it, or mask it with new injuries. About Burke...I think the reason Patsy acted so protective about having him interviewed, wasn't so much because of the 911, but because of something he could've told about earlier that night.
Holdontoyourhat
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Part of WHAT staging? There was no staging. The garrote was real and was used to strangle JBR to death. Don't take my word for it, its all in the autopsy report.
The ransom note was the intruder explaining JBR's murder was politically motivated and foreign: small foreign faction, but not the country..., not the only fat cat..., Victory!
The ONLY person who is going to sexually assault or abuse a 6 year old is a pedophile or someone without morals who is working for a pedophile. I have not read that anyone currently in the suspect pool is a known pedophile. And I don't think pedophiles sexually assault, brutally murder, and then just 'get better' like RDI implies.
my_tee_mouse
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I was going to just let this ride, but I had to come back to it. Pedophiles do not walk around with a big "P" stitched on their clothing. My grandfather was an "upstanding citizen" who sang in the choir, taught Sunday school, held a government job and was married to the same woman all his adult life. Pretty decent all-round good guy, right? A man with morals who would never assault or abuse a six-year-old, right? WRONG. He molested my mother for years and had her so caught up in the molester/victim mindset that when my sister and I got to an age where my mother figured he would start trying to molest us, she could only vaguely hint at warnings to us...worded in such a way that young girls would have no clue what she was talking about. Had she ever gone to my grandmother about the molestation, grandmother would have thought she was crazy, grandmother thought my grandfather was perfect.
SO my sister and I get to the "ripe" age, and yep, he molested the both of us as well. And we were adults before we could even share that information with each other, because we'd been told all our lives that grandpa was perfect...so anything a "perfect" man did to us was aokay, right?
The mental games, the guilt and the shame took my brilliant mother to the point of insanity and when faced with the knowledge that she was going to have to go back home and live with her mother and father, she chose to kill herself. She left a note detailing the abuse...a note which my grandmother found, deemed "insane" and destroyed. She never told anyone about the note until I was 32 years old, and then she did so only because she let it slip. To the day she died she refused to believe her perfect husband would do such to anyone. But he did.
So tell me again your list of people who would molest a six-year-old girl? Pedophiles come in all shapes and sizes, and there is nothing I've heard or read about JR that would rule him out as a pedophile. But there is much about what I've heard and seen of him that makes my creep factor alarm go off like crazy.
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