WI WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

[Claudette]

I think I found 2 of the unsolved murders.

officer Perry gates in 1900
Dr James McLoone in 1947

In case anyone was curious

 

[Claudette]

Where did the whole “Ed gein was a few blocks away that night” come from? I’ve been searching news archives and cannot find a source for this but it’s entirely possible I’ve missed it. All I can find is he claimed to be working on a neighbors farm that night and that he still had family in la crosse he would occasionally visit.

 

[Betty P]

Where did the whole “Ed gein was a few blocks away that night” come from? I’ve been searching news archives and cannot find a source for this but it’s entirely possible I’ve missed it. All I can find is he claimed to be working on a neighbors farm that night and that he still had family in la crosse he would occasionally visit.

Just rumor and speculation, perhaps. I don't think he was nearby, he lived on that farm, some distance away. Evelyn's disappearance doesn't seem to fit Ed Gein's MO. He seemed to prefer women who were much older and deceased.

 

[Timmy78]

Where did the whole “Ed gein was a few blocks away that night” come from? I’ve been searching news archives and cannot find a source for this but it’s entirely possible I’ve missed it. All I can find is he claimed to be working on a neighbors farm that night and that he still had family in la crosse he would occasionally visit.

The judge who wrote the book about Gein stated in the book that Gein was in Lacrosse that night, that's where that comes from. But every report I can find says he wasn't in the area that night & that he hadn't been in Lacrosse since he was a kid & moved. There's a few things in that book that isn't backed up by any evidence. Personally I think that judge was looking for a quick buck from writing a book. He also states in that book that he thinks Gein was responsible for the Weckler girl too & that was quite a ways from Plainfield & no reason whatsoever why Gein would just happen to be driving around in that area & take a little girl. I personally think that Gein being involved sounds kinda silly cause not only does it not fit his MO but Lacrosse isn't exactly close to Plainfield & the idea of little Ed Gein running around there, breaking into houses, & taking someone just doesn't sound plausible.

 

[madfrank]

.

 

[Quoththeraven]

RIP Detective Sill.

I want back and watched the videos posted earlier in this thread after reading this and noticed something I missed the first time. At about 5:55 in this video, retired police officer Don Schoenfeld, says: "At the time we had reports from down south, the Goose Island area, heard screaming in that area."

Evelyn Hartley Chapter 2.mov - YouTube

I don't remember if this was ever discussed here. I searched the thread for "Goose Island" but didn't get anything.
Anybody remember seeing any references to this in the old newspaper archives? Was this talked about in the book?
From Google Maps, Goose Island seems like It's a county park and campground. Was it the same back in 1953?

A June 1, 1954 article in the La Crosse Tribune did mention a 'grave' on Goose Island, which was located south of La Crosse and west of Coon Valley.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Peterson and Barclay discussing digging up graves and moving Hartley's body around.

"Clyde Tywee Peterson ... dig up graves and everything else [location deleted].
Whitey Barclay ...but the thing is, you hauled her from La Crosse down to --( house location deleted)----and back to La Crosse. huh?"

Link...

WI - WI - Evelyn Hartley, 15, La Crosse, 24 Oct 1953

 

[Quoththeraven]

Just rumor and speculation, perhaps. I don't think he was nearby, he lived on that farm, some distance away. Evelyn's disappearance doesn't seem to fit Ed Gein's MO. He seemed to prefer women who were much older and deceased.

Correct, Gein was cleared in the Hartley disappearance according to the attached partial article. Also, I think the DA at the time, dropped the ball on the Gein investigation. He didn't want to investigate who the other 10 or so heads belonged to that were found at the farm.

The sheriff at the time, Portage County Sheriff Herbert J. Wanserski, indicated he felt that all the 10 or more heads found at Gein's farm were the result of murder when he remarked, "He (Gein) never robbed a grave in his life."

So, there were 10 or more skulls of murder victims that were buried? after the investigation that will never receive any kind of justice.

Also, in the same article...
"Early in the case, one officer said that Gein had been in La Crosse about five days before Miss Hartley disappeared. However, Gein denied this to La Crosse officers."

 

[Betty P]

Correct, Gein was cleared in the Hartley disappearance according to the attached partial article. Also, I think the DA at the time, dropped the ball on the Gein investigation. He didn't want to investigate who the other 10 or so heads belonged to that were found at the farm.

The sheriff at the time, Portage County Sheriff Herbert J. Wanserski, indicated he felt that all the 10 or more heads found at Gein's farm were the result of murder when he remarked, "He (Gein) never robbed a grave in his life."

So, there were 10 or more skulls of murder victims that were buried? after the investigation that will never receive any kind of justice.

Also, in the same article...
"Early in the case, one officer said that Gein had been in La Crosse about five days before Miss Hartley disappeared. However, Gein denied this to La Crosse officers."

It's been probably 20 yrs or more since I read a book about Gein. Couldn't stomach reading about him again. I know most of us here at WS can usually handle morbid murder invstigations, but Gein is a bit much for me.

It's a shame if the other cases he was involved in still haven't been solved. But, the MO and victim profile for Evelyn is so different from Gein.

 

[Quoththeraven]

I think I found 2 of the unsolved murders.

officer Perry gates in 1900
Dr James McLoone in 1947

In case anyone was curious

Edward Theodore Gein August 27, 1906 – July 26, 1984

As far as the Dr James McLoone murder; Nola Larson, the wife of Arnold Larson, had gone through a recent divorce from her husband, had a boyfriend (according to her testimony) and her testimony did not jive with witnesses at the scene of the crime. I wonder why the boyfriend was never called to the stand. The below article will convince any sleuth that Arnold Larson was not guilty of the murder of Dr. McLoone.

Syracuse Post Standard February 12, 1950

https://access.newspaperarchive.com...andard/1950/02-12/page-100/nola-larson?page=2

I'd rule out Gates and McLoone as victims of Ed Gein.

 

[Timmy78]

Correct, Gein was cleared in the Hartley disappearance according to the attached partial article. Also, I think the DA at the time, dropped the ball on the Gein investigation. He didn't want to investigate who the other 10 or so heads belonged to that were found at the farm.

The sheriff at the time, Portage County Sheriff Herbert J. Wanserski, indicated he felt that all the 10 or more heads found at Gein's farm were the result of murder when he remarked, "He (Gein) never robbed a grave in his life."

So, there were 10 or more skulls of murder victims that were buried? after the investigation that will never receive any kind of justice.

Also, in the same article...
"Early in the case, one officer said that Gein had been in La Crosse about five days before Miss Hartley disappeared. However, Gein denied this to La Crosse officers."

They dug up a bunch of graves & confirmed at least a majority of everything in Gein's house came from those graves. I personally think it's a complete waste of time & ludicrous to try to put all these murders or disappearances on Gein. Anyone who's researched him knows he wasn't some evil mastermind & was complete luck & denial that he wasn't caught long before he was. Not sure why people are even still talking about this, all it does is distract from realistic possibilities.

 

[Quoththeraven]

They dug up a bunch of graves & confirmed at least a majority of everything in Gein's house came from those graves. I personally think it's a complete waste of time & ludicrous to try to put all these murders or disappearances on Gein. Anyone who's researched him knows he wasn't some evil mastermind & was complete luck & denial that he wasn't caught long before he was. Not sure why people are even still talking about this, all it does is distract from realistic possibilities.

The following news articles conflict with your version of events. Unless the graves were dug up much later in the investigation.

 

[Quoththeraven]

The following news articles conflict with your version of events. Unless the graves were dug up much later in the investigation.

News story one year later confirms that only two graves were ever opened. So, I guess we'll never know.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Another November 1, 1952 mystery regarding certain people missing near Ed Gein's land was the disappearance of two hunters, Ray Burgess and 43 year old Victor Bunk Travis. They were supposed to go squirrel and rabbit hunting on the farm property of Lars Thomsen, right across the road from Ed Gein's property.

Ray Burgess had been flashing $4,000 in $100 bills at a Big Flats, WI bar and buying rounds of drinks and eventually got Victor Travis to take him squirrel hunting.

Gein's farmhouse address:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

When more bones were found on the farm on May 9, 1960, authorities thought they were Ray Burgesses bones because of a gold tooth which Burgess was reported to have. It turns out this skeleton was a woman's.

Sometime after they were seen at the farm, there was no trace of them and Travis' dog was found in the woods. To this day, authorities have NEVER searched the Lars Thomsen farm for Victor Travis.

In 1961, investigators learned that Ray Burgess wasn't the person he said he was and may have been contracted to kill Victor Travis. The new article below explains it better than I can.

As of Dec 1, 1957, the tentative total was 14 bodies/parts, not including the one found in 1960.

So what happened to all the evidence that filled a dump truck that was sent to the state crime lab? From the news article I read, sometime in the 1960's, money was requisitioned for their burial and the body parts were all dumped in a mass grave and buried. No attempt was ever made to determine who was who and to this day no attempt has been made to identify the body parts using DNA. What a sham of justice.

 

[Seratonin]

 

[ventport]

Personally I think that judge was looking for a quick buck from writing a book.

Agreed. Numerous opinions interjected with no evidence.

The sheriff at the time, Portage County Sheriff Herbert J. Wanserski, indicated he felt that all the 10 or more heads found at Gein's farm were the result of murder when he remarked, "He (Gein) never robbed a grave in his life."
So, there were 10 or more skulls of murder victims that were buried? after the investigation that will never receive any kind of justice.

Wanserski's statement was more of a 'I can not believe it' POV than via investigative results. It was also made early on- before the grave openings. But those grave openings, hard to stomach as it were in 1958, were enough, along with Gein's lie detector & interviews, to convince authorities he was being honest. A few facts he gave some of the grave victims were verifiable without exhuming them.

Another November 1, 1952 mystery regarding certain people missing near Ed Gein's land was the disappearance of two hunters, Ray Burgess and 43 year old Victor Bunk Travis. They were supposed to go squirrel and rabbit hunting on the farm property of Lars Thomsen, right across the road from Ed Gein's property.
Sometime after they were seen at the farm, there was no trace of them and Travis' dog was found in the woods. To this day, authorities have NEVER searched the Lars Thomsen farm for Victor Travis.

So what happened to all the evidence that filled a dump truck that was sent to the state crime lab? From the news article I read, sometime in the 1960's, money was requisitioned for their burial and the body parts were all dumped in a mass grave and buried. No attempt was ever made to determine who was who and to this day no attempt has been made to identify the body parts using DNA. What a sham of justice.

• Lars Thompson's property was in Hancock, not across the road from Gein's.
• The evidence from the case was carefully sorted, and all the human remains were buried. At the time this was done, the remains were at a minimum of 7 years old and weren't even recognizable as human anymore. DNA ID'ing was unknown. I suppose they could be exhumed today, but the investigation then pretty much concluded they were mostly from graves, and authorities in WI have no interest in opening the Gein file.

 

[ventport]

My money is on Ed Gein.

Zero evidence to support it, multiple points to counter it.

 

[TheArtfulDetective]

100% agreed with Betty P. Totally not Gein's MO. A grave robber with an Oedipus Complex doesn't seem fitting in this case.

 

[Betty P]

100% agreed with Betty P. Totally not Gein's MO. A grave robber with an Oedipus Complex doesn't seem fitting in this case.

Gein also worked alone, didn't he? Evidence suggests whoever kidnapped Evelyn Hartley may have had an accomplice, a driver of the car.

 

[the_dahlia]

Just read this entire thread. Whew. I think the Ed Gein theory, though possible, is far-fetched. Not his MO, not his victim type, too far away from his home and definitely not his type of shoe.

Something I've not seen much information on is the girl Evelyn was filling in for. Could she have mentioned to the wrong person about her babysitting plans, a predator who, when he went along to the house, decided to settle on Evelyn instead. I'm a bit of a vintage fashion nerd and in the 1950s that type of All Star High-Top shoe would have been worn almost exclusively by teens/young people and it would be unusual unless at a spoting event to see anyone over say, college age wearing them. Which is why I believe the police focused so heavily on the boys at Evelyn's school.

I believe it was someone who either knew Evelyn or the girl she was filling in for. A young man - or possibly two young men, who knew there would be a girl alone in the house and planned to assault her. They broke in, with some sort of mask concealing their faces but during the stuggle Evelyn managed to reomve the masks. Now they're in trouble because she can identify them. Something makes them panic (maybe a car drives past, etc.) and fearing someone is about to arrive home they force Evelyn down to the basement and out of the window they entered in. It would be a pretty bold move to leave out of the front door, especially as these young men are already panicking. Outside Evelyn tries to make a run for it, screams and one of them loses his head and stabs her. Perhaps she's still alive and now they're in way too deep to back out, they take her and (after either passing away from her injuries or being finished off) they hide her body.

Along similar lines is the theory that two youngsters on the spur of the moment decided to rob the house, not seeing a car outside and after a quick scout through the windows not seeing Evelyn. She could have been putting the baby to sleep in a room with drawn curtains or in the toilet etc. They break in, come face to face with her, they know each other, and events unfold as I theorised above.

A mother who had repaired the discarded jacket may have kept quiet to protect her son. This is just my two cents anyway

 

[Betty P]

Something I've not seen much information on is the girl Evelyn was filling in for. Could she have mentioned to the wrong person about her babysitting plans, a predator who, when he went along to the house, decided to settle on Evelyn instead. I'm a bit of a vintage fashion nerd and in the 1950s that type of All Star High-Top shoe would have been worn almost exclusively by teens/young people and it would be unusual unless at a spoting event to see anyone over say, college age wearing them. Which is why I believe the police focused so heavily on the boys at Evelyn's school.

Very good analysis, JMO. I've always assumed the same thing about the All Star High-Top shoe. Though I was pretty young in 1957, I do recall (and from family photos from that era) a teen or college age student wore those shoes. Perhaps they wore them specifically for the activity they planned that night.

Also agree about the possibility of parents keeping quiet to protect their sons if they suspected they were involved. I'm not sure how family members rationalize this "Its terrible, but it won't bring the victim back to turn in my son" kind of thinking. If I had the time, it might be worth checking the Lacrosse newspapers back then to see if there were some burglaries or similar crimes involving young adults back then.