AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[rosesfromangels]

How long can the perp/s hold this on their concious, without losing sleep, or their sanity?
How long before someone they know takes notice that something just isn't right and it niggles away at them with every breath they take,and every second that ticks by. Before they call with that one tip?
Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
They can't keep this up forever.

Mental illness could have created a delusion where they feel very justified for their actions. They may consider themselves on a covert mission of sorts, hunkered down in some survivalist bunker. The possibilities seem so varied. The combo of the murders and child snatching make their motive and possible whereabouts harder to predictively model, as we know all too well at this point.

If I had to focus on one possibility, it would be close by...local...hiding in plain sight. If still living, I think she is in a basement or bunker in a nearby building/home/farm. A specially built underground bunker under a shed or barn, maybe under a basement. They might even live with an elderly parent. I’d have search dogs everywhere in that small town.

My amateur profile is a religious fanatic who is a survivalist nut.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Diamondems]

Every time I log in and/or refresh this page I am so nervous! I want the heading to say "found alive" But I dread to see the heading say "found deceased." I just want her found. This is such a hard case with such little information. I feel like the police know nothing. Each night I hug and kiss my own 13 year old daughter even tighter and longer. This could be her! It's terrifying. Please, please find Jaime!

 

[MsBetsy]

The helicopter was flown over the area that they previously mapped with the helicopter (I expect LIDAR plus other mapping types) prior to the 2000 person search. So this is ground that had been covered by the 2000 person search effort. Specifically they were looking for changes from the last time they went through.

Between this and setting up the cameras at the house it seems that law enforcement has (or had) some expectation that someone would return to the house or around the house or that some thing will have been brought back or end up in the vicinity of the house after the previous search occurred. It would be interesting to learn the thinking behind this as it is not what we see typically done.

Did they use infrared cameras?

 

[WiseOwl]

The helicopter was flown over the area that they previously mapped with the helicopter (I expect LIDAR plus other mapping types) prior to the 2000 person search. So this is ground that had been covered by the 2000 person search effort. Specifically they were looking for changes from the last time they went through.

Between this and setting up the cameras at the house it seems that law enforcement has (or had) some expectation that someone would return to the house or around the house or that some thing will have been brought back or end up in the vicinity of the house after the previous search occurred. It would be interesting to learn the thinking behind this as it is not what we see typically done.

Someone did go to the house but he, of course, has been cleared of having anything to do with this case.

I do wonder why the helicopter went over the ground that had been searched previously. What did they think could possibly turn up now?

 

[Jethro4WS]

Did they use infrared cameras?

They didn't say what they used. However, there was footage of the helicopter the first time around and it clearly had pods on it. I expect that they would have multiple sensors they would use but keep in mind the mapping was being done in the daylight and it was 9 or 10 days after Jayme went missing when they did this.

My guess is that they are not looking for a body. If they were looking for a body and had a reasonable confidence they would find one in the search area they mapped out they likely would have gone over the area again on the ground.

 

[Celt1997]

Someone did go to the house but he, of course, has been cleared of having anything to do with this case.

I do wonder why the helicopter went over the ground that had been searched previously. What did they think could possibly turn up now?

It sounds like they were looking to see if anyone had gone "back" to the area. With the leaves fallen, any new tracks across the fields would be visible. It really sounds like they believe she is close by, and in captivity. Wish I knew what they know.

 

[pepper 34]

The helicopter was flown over the area that they previously mapped with the helicopter (I expect LIDAR plus other mapping types) prior to the 2000 person search. So this is ground that had been covered by the 2000 person search effort. Specifically they were looking for changes from the last time they went through.

Between this and setting up the cameras at the house it seems that law enforcement has (or had) some expectation that someone would return to the house or around the house or that some thing will have been brought back or end up in the vicinity of the house after the previous search occurred. It would be interesting to learn the thinking behind this as it is not what we see typically done.

I've been thinking further on the helicopter use, too. I agree with all you said in your comment and I'm probably just in denial and wanting it to be something more, as well.
What if... the red car and the black SUV were spotted before the murders only. Maybe it was always a different vehicle(s) that the killer drove. Then, after the murders LE can find no cars traveling along Route 8 that coincide with the timing of the arrival of LE at the Closs's house. LE would then suspect the killer must have taken a quick right off Route 8 after the murders and that is why the main searches have been done, more or less, in the areas behind Jayme's house. (Perhaps there are homes along Route 8 that have surveillance that support this theory.) Could they have used the helicopter to #1, accomplish what they are saying ie; look for changes to the area but also, if they saw no changes... #2, to try and force the killer to make a visit to change something in that area. Maybe they have set up surveillance in that general area hoping for someone to return for some reason iow. I know it is most likely wishful thinking on my part but... I have to wish.

 

[not.a.muggle]

so they didn't find anything ... looking from ... a .... helicopter. Color me surprised ...

I've done wildlife/vegetation surveys from helicopters. There is plenty they could have seen, especially if they were looking for changes since the last search, as @Jethro4WS stated. No, you're probably not going to find a cell phone, but you can see disturbed areas, clothing they may have missed, a new path through vegetation, remains that may not have been there previously, etc.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Someone did go to the house but he, of course, has been cleared of having anything to do with this case.

I do wonder why the helicopter went over the ground that had been searched previously. What did they think could possibly turn up now?

The key question is for me isn't "what" they are hoping to turn up but rather "why" law enforcement has (or had) such an expectation. This has to be something out of the BAU as I don't think this is something done on a whim, hoping beyond all hope, that maybe, just maybe, they would get lucky.

 

[Ragnarok]

I wonder if corn has now been harvested in the area. The sheriff does seem to think there is something to be found in the area; it seems to me. It wouldn't be the first time a missing person was found within a mile or two of where they were last known to be. I can't imagine they are looking for small objects such as a cell phone while using a helicopter. Looking for disturbed ground or larger objects that could have hidden something now having been moved aside?

A 20 YO woman disappeared from a bar parking lot here early 80s. Remains found six years later, four miles give or take from the bar. I know people who walked a trail within ten yards of her. A hunter setting up a raised deer stand saw her. Never solved.

 

[andreww]

Someone did go to the house but he, of course, has been cleared of having anything to do with this case.

I do wonder why the helicopter went over the ground that had been searched previously. What did they think could possibly turn up now?

Yes somebody did come back. Wrong person apparently. But, who would come back to the house and why? The fact that police had put motion activated cameras in there was NOT a security precaution. They purposely left the porch door unlocked. Ask yourself why?

Obviously anything of value in that house (drugs, cash, weapons) would be long gone, so why would anyone come back? The perp should have no reason to return, however Jayme may have wanted to come back for something?

Any ideas?

 

[human]

Here's where Mexican drug cartels operate in the US, according to the DEA

Minneapolis and Milwaukee.

Your article says the cartels bring them up but locals with no direct link disribute. Seems like cartel is not in the picture, to me

 

[MsBetsy]

As far as your first question, it makes me almost sick to say it but there is probably someone out there who is still high off of what he did. Quite happy with himself, in fact and has no guilty conscience at all. Because, imo, you have to be a sociopath to do something like this.
As for the other questions; I'm wishing, hoping and praying every day for that day to come "today."

I still have not ruled out the possibility that this is someone who has killed before, and it was random, but all three were targeted. Recently there have been killers such as this who don't appear to have a specific preference regarding choice of victim. Israel Keyes attacked couples, young women, as well as older people. Todd Kohlhemp did the same. They were experienced killers who covered their tracks. Maybe this is someone who decided to step up his game, maybe to increase the thrill. Just the fact that LE doesn't have one solid lead, that we know of, makes me think this is someone with some experience. They seem to have ruled out a co-worker, anything drug related, a person Jayme may have come into contact with on the internet, or who had a problem with the family. It's been so long. I don't think there is much chance that she will be found alive. Has LE made any statements in the last few days? I saw that they weren't sure about the red car at this point. I'm hoping the perp will slip up soon. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes somebody did come back. Wrong person apparently. But, who would come back to the house and why? The fact that police had put motion activated cameras in there was NOT a security precaution. They purposely left the porch door unlocked. Ask yourself why?

Obviously anything of value in that house (drugs, cash, weapons) would be long gone, so why would anyone come back? The perp should have no reason to return, however Jayme may have wanted to come back for something?

Any ideas?

We don’t know that they “purposely left the porch door unlocked.” Unless you know something we don’t...

Jayme isn’t coming back for anything. She’s either dead, or being held.

 

[andreww]

We don’t know that they “purposely left the porch door unlocked.” Unless you know something we don’t.

Jayme isn’t coming back for anything. She’s either dead, or being held.

It was reported that the guy got in through the unlocked back door. You think it was an accident?

 

[WiseOwl]

I've been thinking further on the helicopter use, too. I agree with all you said in your comment and I'm probably just in denial and wanting it to be something more, as well.
What if... the red car and the black SUV were spotted before the murders only. Maybe it was always a different vehicle(s) that the killer drove. Then, after the murders LE can find no cars traveling along Route 8 that coincide with the timing of the arrival of LE at the Closs's house. LE would then know the killer must have taken a quick right or left off Route 8 after the murders and that is why the main searches have been done, more or less, in the areas behind Jayme's house. (Perhaps there are homes along Route 8 that have surveillance that support this theory.) Could they have used the helicopter to #1, accomplish what they are saying ie; look for changes to the area but also, if they saw no changes... #2, to try and force the killer to make a visit to change something in that area. Maybe they have set up surveillance in that general area hoping for someone to return for some reason iow. I know it is most likely wishful thinking on my part but... I have to wish.

Maybe the perp(s) and Jayme left on foot? If this was a planned abduction then maybe they had parked up elsewhere and did not drive straight onto the highway? Could explain the lack of vehicle sightings that night.

 

[andreww]

Jayme isn’t coming back for anything. She’s either dead, or being held.

You know that how? She may well have been compliant in leaving. We don't know, and we have no evidence to rule that scenario out.

 

[MsBetsy]

Minneapolis and Milwaukee.

Your article says the cartels bring them up but locals with no direct link disribute. Seems like cartel is not in the picture, to me

I dont think that's likely either. Mostly it is the suppliers that are found in rural places in the US. I can't think of any reason they would have any ties to the Closs family. I have never heard of a case where they targeted a family for no reason. Not saying it's not possible, but highly unlikely. Most violent activity occurs in cities, anyway, not in the woods in Wisconsin. Jmo

 

[human]

Valleyfair closes early; Shakopee police respond to park after large number of fights

OT: Not that I think this has anything at all to do with this case, but I think this is what they were referring to. Valley Fair is an amusement park south of the Twin Cities, not an actual fair. A bunch of teenagers (<modsnip - rumor not in article >) were setting up flash fights within the park via Snapchat and/or other social media.

Can’t read because of paywall. Have been there many times when kids were younger. Now my grandkids go there. Very much a family place with the rides I liked such as the antique cars. One roller coaster was enough forever.

It was very clean and nice. I assume it still is

 

[MassGuy]

It was reported that the guy got in through the unlocked back door. You think it was an accident?

Can you prove that it wasn’t? Or that a family member didn’t accidentally leave it unlocked?

The house had already been turned over to the family, prior to the break in.