AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[Rosiebones]

I went back to page one of these threads, to the time line, and the note of the two gun shots. I have been thinking that was the start of the horror but maybe they were at the very end. But, what if the front door was not kicked in but was smashed in by an ax or a splitting maul that was found on the woodpile out back. JC could have been instantly incapacitated as could DC as she came out to see. Jayme could have hidden and been found. The gun shots could have been fired to be sure JC and DC were unable to respond as the perp/perps left the home. LE did report that it was a violent crime scene.

 

[mtnlites]

In a town where you pretty much know everyone, and there have been only like four murders over the last ten years, I honestly think the last possibility in your head when you hear something going on at the front door is...’gee, I wonder if that’s a person that is going to kill me and my wife and abscond with my daughter?’ I think it’s way more likely to think, ‘is that an animal on the porch again?’

I very much agree with a previous poster that said it is very sad and tragic that this hardworking father and husband had to lose his life on his own doorstep.

moo.

Someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, I am probably going to assume that they need help or that it's someone I know.

 

[cluciano63]

I feel 99% sure the article is wrong about the phone and James being at party but jmo.

 

[Pennysmom1]

This is in Barron? Where I lived in MN, track and field was a spring sport. Have no idea of cross country.

Jayme was only 13. The high school sports are a lot different than middle school sports.

I think someone posted a schedule ?

Here in southern MN, cross country is in the fall.

 

[1987]

Someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, I am probably going to assume that they need help or that it's someone I know.

I think needing help throws people off. good people want to help and just react without any thought beyond that.

 

[chili367]

Been traveling (oddly southern MN and NE Iowa) and not able to follow, so sorry if this was discussed. I'd thought about putting item #1 into my first post on this case but decided not to. Plus a random thought or two.

1) IIRC, the 12:31am time came from the neighbors. They said their clock was 7 minutes fast and deduced the time as 12:31. (Does anyone else recall this??) What if they were wrong or had the offset backwards? 12:38 plus 7 minutes is 12:45am -- that seems to make more sense to me as a timeline start but goes back to my lack of confidence in the "12:31" timeline.

2) 911 call. Likely from another room. It was certainly taken from whomever called, the call terminated, and possibly the phone damaged. Once the call is dropped, the recording is over. I agree this call led to the quick end of the event. If the perp(s) hadn't noticed then perhaps a different ending? Text to 911 is just getting rolled out; might have made a difference here, too.

3) Interesting items in that NBC article but the "James at the party" error was a doozy.

Trying to digest the newer info and I need to watch the Dryden interview for sure.

 

[cluciano63]

Pretty soon an update on the article will come that Jayme's phone has not been found jmo...

 

[Moonsie]

So I originally thought that maybe the 911 call was a last act of Denise after being shot. However, the damage to the chair (most certainly from a bullet, excellent photo work SharonNeedles) made me rethink that.

I think it is possible that Denise was in bed, dialed 911 and put the phone down, then left the bedroom and grabbed the chair for protection. That could explain the commotion heard at a distance and possibly the word ‘help’ being heard.

That theory doesn’t explain how or why the 911 call was ended though.

I do think this whole thing happened very, very quickly.

moo.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Edit for grammar:

Continuing to research news on the (turkey) industry-wide salmonella outbreak. A website, foodpoisoningbulletin.com offers insights on those who became sick, which includes people who worked in the industry or lived with someone who did.

Salmonella Reading Outbreak Linked to Raw Turkey Turns Deadly

“Three of the 85 ill persons interviewed said they got sick after pets in their home ate raw ground turkey pet food. And three of the 85 worked in a facility that raises or processes turkeys, or lived with someone who did.

The reason for Jayme’s hospitalization is unclear as is the reason that James went to work on Sunday October 14th. Could both have to do with damage control relating to the salmonella outbreak? No reports of outbreaks in Wisconsin. Reports from Minnesota (July 2018) indicated that there were 13 people infected, the highest number of any state.

Minnesotans sickened by salmonella from raw turkey

The FDA issued a warning in July re: raw turkey pet food but has not issued any further reports since the cases have escalated / salmonella has expanded into other turkey products (consumed by humans):
FDA Investigates Outbreak of Salmonella Infections Linked to Raws for Paws Ground Turkey Food for Pets

Information released by the CDC on Thursday, November 8, 2018
Salmonella Outbreak Linked to Raw Turkey Products | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC
* Illnesses in this outbreak started from November 20, 2017 to October 20, 2018
* 164 people reported ill in 35 states
* 63 people hospitalized
* 1 death reported in California
* No single provider has been identified

 

[DancingMuse]

I think needing help throws people off. good people want to help and just react without any thought beyond that.

I agree with you 1987. If one of the unsubs was a female, with what looks like a baby in her arms, James might open up the door immediately, not knowing Unsub #2 is standing to the side of the door, with a handgun.

The other alternative could be, that the Unsub loudly began his entrance by yelling and identifying himself as Law Enforcement. He became louder and then, like in a television show, began kicking in the door.

James, in bed already, might be reticent to arm himself, and may just run to the door, thinking, " I have to go talk to them. I can reason with them. They are law enforcement and just have the wrong house; If I present myself, they'll see they are in error. They just need to raid the meth house 3 doors down. "

Meanwhile, it wasn't REALLY law enforcement at all. However, it meant that James didn't arm himself.

I have always wondered how this heinous crime could happen........ so warpspeed, and without James having any time to arm himself.

 

[JnRyan]

I keep thinking there had to be more going on at the front door than a knock. I cant see just rolling over out of bed and going to the door and if looked out a window first the person on the other side must have been known. I also cant see if was awake and heard a gun being chambered just going to the door. all I can see is if the door was actively being broken into either from kicking or a shot maybe just reaction to try to stop it or could someone have claimed a emergency, maybe yelling at the door or maybe we have the whole picture wrong of how father gets at the front door and it has nothing to do with answering the door. what would get a person to answer or even consider answering enough to be that near the door at that hour?

I keep kicking that one around and it doesn't make sense to me either. I would be suspicious if it were 9:30 much less 12:30. Most of the folks I know would call me first.

 

[Peppery]

I can only go by what my husband does if he hears a noise. He looks out windows to see if he can figure out what is going on.

I cannot imagine anyone going boldy to answer a door at that hour, There had to be some exploration at first, I think.

What if the person hollered they had an accident? Would he simply go to the door or think he should go help?

Along the same lines, if this was planned and the perp knew any of their names, which would be public record and not difficult to figure out, yelling it while banging on the door could cause someone to open without thinking. I’m imagining a “Jim!Jim! Help, open up, it’s me!” And one of the Closs’ not stopping to consider who it could be. Moo

 

[JnRyan]

I agree with you 1987. If one of the unsubs was a female, with what looks like a baby in her arms, James might open up the door immediately, not knowing Unsub #2 is standing to the side of the door, with a handgun.

The other alternative could be, that the Unsub loudly began his entrance by yelling and identifying himself as Law Enforcement. He became louder and then, like in a television show, began kicking in the door.

James, in bed already, might be reticent to arm himself, and may just run to the door, thinking, " I have to go talk to them. I can reason with them. They are law enforcement and just have the wrong house; If I present myself, they'll see they are in error. They just need to raid the meth house 3 doors down. "

Meanwhile, it wasn't REALLY law enforcement at all. However, it meant that James didn't arm himself.

I have always wondered how this heinous crime could happen........ so warpspeed, and without James having any time to arm himself.

That scenario just might work. Although, I've received a prank call or two from someone claiming to be LE. So now I would call LE on 911 to verify if that happened. But then, that's just me. Someone claiming to be LE just might get someone to come to the door.

Come to think of it I do remember LE ringing the door bell to get into an apartment complex lobby at midnight or one in the morning many years ago. BUT I looked out the window first and they were in uniform. And they weren't trying to knock the door down.

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

Sorry, but its been a month. If he truly doesn't know if James was at the casino that day, he is the worst sheriff ever.

If they wanted to know, they would know due to the license plate readers most, if not all casinos have upon entering their parking lot. Then, the hundreds of top line security cameras with perfect image quality one can imagine are used. Speaking of plate readers, most infested areas of crime have them on bridges / stop lights. I would think this sheriff has that technology to work with. However, stop light cameras only do good if working, meaning high failure rate

 

[andreww]

Pretty soon an update on the article will come that Jayme's phone has not been found jmo...

LE hasn't released that info, so I doubt very much that the family or the author has a source to back that up.

 

[Peppery]

I think we may be over complicating the front door. It’s possible it wasn’t locked and the perp just opened it. If James was found in the doorway, he may have heard the door open or have been near when it was opened.

We really don’t know how close to the door he was found, if he may have been able to take a few steps before falling or being shot again, if he was moved by anyone. There’s too many assumptions right now imo

 

[1987]

I keep kicking that one around and it doesn't make sense to me either. I would be suspicious if it were 9:30 much less 12:30. Most of the folks I know would call me first.

kicking a door down may not be hard but it sure isn't quiet either, neither is shooting the door. I could maybe wrap my head around a parent being half way to a door but at the door as if answering it? something placed him there before the door was breached. moo. if I hear my door kicked or a gun chambered or shot I am not running to my door, even if I did run to get to the door I doubt it would be likely to make it to the door in time to get shot there. I think something places him there before he knows there is a real issue. I would think whatever attracted the attention to the door at first would have mom on alert too. if he was thinking animal then just open the door or ignore it, no need for door to be damaged to get in.

 

[photographer4]

I agree with you. I always hear from my sister when she is waiting to pick her granddaughter up from school. That's just our personal pattern. Obviously, Denise and her sister also had a pattern. Perhaps they spoke every evening before retiring for the night...who knows. What is interesting though is that the sisters spoke at 8:30 that evening and everything seemed normal. So within a time frame of just a few hours, it seems that all hell broke loose without even a hint of trouble prior to that, according to the sister.

Interesting observation: we know the sister and Denise texted at 8:30pm and things seemed normal. We don't know where Denise was when the texting happened. She

Not sure if either of those are fact? I saw a video from the search and the officer specifically said to keep an eye open for a weapon or a cell phone. So whose phone would they be looking for? James'?

Maybe at the time of the search they had not yet found Jayme’s phone? Or maybe they were looking for jame’s phone

 

[Peppery]

Interesting observation: we know the sister and Denise texted at 8:30pm and things seemed normal. We don't know where Denise was when the texting happened. She

Maybe at the time of the search they had not yet found Jayme’s phone? Or maybe they were looking for jame’s phone

Very true. We don’t know but I’m sure LE has the phone records by now and knows where it was.

 

[JRW]

if it is a sudden ambush why aren't dad and mom just shot in their bed or near their bed? why would someone come in like it seems, fast and LOUD, why not just quiet and precise?

I get hung up at different points each time I try to reason this whole thing out. today I am hung up at the front door, that is where it seems the first violent contact was made I cant move on from there without understanding at least some part of it.

In my opinion because there was some level of anger involved or possibly some sort of high emotion. This wasn't a cat burgler sneaking quietly into the house. I would suspect a level of emotion involved