Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 3

Londonrraine said:

I hear the Meth lab situation is big upstate NY. Who knows something about that?

Maybe that's how JR lost weight, and not "safely". This could also lead her to connect with some dangerous people, IMO.

Click to expand...

Jennifer was not doing illegal drugs. At least not that anybody is aware and I have to say, in my opinion, no.

epiphany said:

By their very definition, extramarital affairs are cloaked in

-Secrecy

-Deception

and

-Lies.

Click to expand...

Rumors and gossip too. Sad.

I really want to know what happened to Jennifer. Praying for her every day, and for those who love her.

Going back to lurk mode.

Lavanda, can you tell us how long GR was at Y?? Has he spoken to LE recently? Does he speak with Jennifer's parents? Seems there is tension between them..can you elaborate on that?

fringles said:

Also, Lavanda, with the cases you mentioned where people were missing, and often presumed dead before reappearing. In your experience, how did these people support themselves and shelter, while they were gone?

Click to expand...

Both used false names. One, a mother, worked at a restaurant in which she survived off tips and no salary/hourly wage. In a very small community in GA. She also lived with an older woman that she met to be her caretaker - live in situation. The woman was not an invalid, but needed help. She left two children with her mother and was to run to Walmart and never came home. Her cell phone found in Walmart parking lot. She had no need for a phone. She had no intentions to call anyone. She felt a failure in that her children, mother and fiance' were better off without her. She was missing for 2 and half years. It was an online poster that someone at the restaurant recognized her...called her upon it and told her to call her mom or they would call police. She broke down. The person sat with her and promised she would help her. She did. And she called her mom. Like a voice from the grave as her mom truly believed she was deceased. I kept pushing hope...her mom would fall back into no hope. She has been home now and in therapy and rejoined her children's lives, albeit her fiance' moved on and has custody of the children. She does have them on weekends and she is doing pretty well overall.


The other worked construction , under the table and his boss would literally drive him to work...every single day...driving right past the huge highway billboard with his photo on it and never realized the missing man in the photo was his employee seated right next to him. (A father of a beautiful young child that he raised from birth. However, do to the loss of his apartment he felt he failed when he and his child had to move back home with his parents again. Thus in the middle of bringing his belongings back and forth from apartment to parents home...to move in...he took off running. He left his vehicle, his laptop, his keys, his stereo equipment and all clothing packed in bags in his car. It also wouldn't start. It broke down between trips. We believe that was his crashing point. He just walked away. Literally. For 8 months. He was only found when, by sheer coincidence, he was in a local nightclub and a brawl broke out and police came. A cop recognized his tattoo.) He has been home a few years now and is doing excellent.

About this 'unhealthy' weight loss thing, and the diet pills.

As far as I know the only legal weight loss drug aside from some that are only prescribed to diabetics is Xenical/Orlistat/Alli. I don't know that this would be seen as an 'unhealthy' way to lose weight though unless someone had a prejudice about medication, and it has no known behavioural side effects I can see.

I presume the allusion is to amphetamine-based diet pills, in which case I'm thinking ritalin/adderall, as they're so commonly prescribed?

I would've thought Jen would've mentioned ADHD in her health rundown, but perhaps not, or perhaps it was a recent diagnosis. Or, perhaps, she was using someone else's drugs. However I guess I feel like if we're looking at someone having a sudden mental break, driving their car around in the mud then ditching their phone and vanishing, I'm not sure how likely that is to be caused by those drugs, as from reading up, the risk of psychosis is quite low, particularly without long-term abuse. Plus from what I hear about american college students and adderall, I think if it was causing psychosis, we'd be hearing about it!

I am sorry Lavanda I am dwelling on GR, but there are so many questions that have not been answered and until are, I can't think outside of the box. I am sorry you are in this position because you have to depend on what GR says. In other cases, have you been lied to by other family members?

Clayton said:

Lavanda, can you tell us how long GR was at Y?? Has he spoken to LE recently? Does he speak with Jennifer's parents? Seems there is tension between them..can you elaborate on that?

Click to expand...

I cannot give the times for GR but can tell you that nearly everything that day, in some form or another, was either on record and accounted for via his work, surveillance cameras of places he went and people he encountered throughout the day and includes witnesses who are "strangers" that saw him. My understanding from GR is that he is accounted for in his whereabouts. It's the police's job to investigate and document his accountability. That is part of the investigation so that information is not released.

Lavanda Dolce said:

Both used false names. One, a mother, worked at a restaurant in which she survived off tips and no salary/hourly wage. In a very small community in GA. She also lived with an older woman that she met to be her caretaker - live in situation. The woman was not an invalid, but needed help. She left two children with her mother and was to run to Walmart and never came home. Her cell phone found in Walmart parking lot. She had no need for a phone. She had no intentions to call anyone. She felt a failure in that her children, mother and fiance' were better off without her. She was missing for 2 and half years. It was an online poster that someone at the restaurant recognized her...called her upon it and told her to call her mom or they would call police. She broke down. The person sat with her and promised she would help her. She did. And she called her mom. Like a voice from the grave as her mom truly believed she was deceased. I kept pushing hope...her mom would fall back into no hope. She has been home now and in therapy and rejoined her children's lives, albeit her fiance' moved on and has custody of the children. She does have them on weekends and she is doing pretty well overall.


The other worked construction , under the table and his boss would literally drive him to work...every single day...driving right past the huge highway billboard with his photo on it and never realized the missing man in the photo was his employee seated right next to him. (A father of a beautiful young child that he raised from birth. However, do to the loss of his apartment he felt he failed when he and his child had to move back home with his parents again. Thus in the middle of bringing his belongings back and forth from apartment to parents home...to move in...he took off running. He left his vehicle, his laptop, his keys, his stereo equipment and all clothing packed in bags in his car. It also wouldn't start. It broke down between trips. We believe that was his crashing point. He just walked away. Literally. For 8 months. He was only found when, by sheer coincidence, he was in a local nightclub and a brawl broke out and police came. A cop recognized his tattoo.) He has been home a few years now and is doing excellent.

Click to expand...

These are both lovely stories and I can't imagine the joy their families must've felt. Truly heart-warming.

In the first case, was the woman working before she left as well, or was she a stay at home mom?

Clayton said:

I am sorry Lavanda I am dwelling on GR, but there are so many questions that have not been answered and until are, I can't think outside of the box. I am sorry you are in this position because you have to depend on what GR says. In other cases, have you been lied to by other family members?

Click to expand...

Yes. I've been lied to. And yes...I was the one to find the discrepancy and we took to the police.

"Important thoughts to Ponder"

Let's, for a moment, take a path of possibilities with me...for those who wish to follow along here to help me find some answers or thoughts.

My belief: (also note my beliefs can vary...but are along the same line.)

• I personally do not believe JR made it to the mall. Merely because of the locations of the cell phone and van.

→I do not know if JR truly intended to go to the mall or if that was where she was telling JR she was going.

Possible reasons? Numerous. Here are some examples:

→Being that it was around Christmas time… even I have "lied" and said I was going to a large outlet mall but in reality I actually drove to a specialty store in Maine (out of state) to buy my husband's snowmobile helmet a few years ago. I couldnt tell him the truth of where I was going...else it would have spoiled his Christmas gift.

→Did JR use the mall as a reason to meet someone from online? This would give nearly 5 hours of "accountable time" to her family and the chance to meet, and maybe innocently enough someone she could meet that is "outside" of her normal circles and "outside" of all the traveling that she did with her husband for his interests, someone she played gaming with? Someone that she could meet that was "her friend" and nobody elses. (If that makes sense.) We all know they did a lot of travel from photos. A lot of family activities and a lot focused around her husband's passion…not necessarily her own as she had bad feet with metal that prohibited her from running. She also battled weight. Not to say she was obese in any way…but it is difficult to be a bit overweight and live with someone who is extremely fit and extremely active. So maybe this was a friend "for her" that she wanted to meet. Does not mean it was "an affair" or anything along that line…just a meeting that could have gone astray. The person was LOOKING for a vulnerable woman.

→In my view and in my eyes…Jennifer was extremely vulnerable. She was battling health issues that is hard to explain to anyone around her "in real life" (family, friends, etc.) without them thinking she is a hypochondriac. (which many do when someone is diagnosed with fibromyalgia and other related auto immune conditions.) How are very fit and active friends going to react? The same as most doctors. Excercize more, eat less. Trust me. The last words someone who lives with problems wants to hear that it is "their fault" because basically that is how one perceives that kind of "advise." I see in some photographs such an in-depth look of sadness (that is very deep) and I don't think even Jennifer understood it. I think it goes hand in hand with her vulnerabilty of a multitude of things. I don't think Jennifer truly felt "she belonged." Does this reflect the love she has for her family or they for her? Absolutely not. This is an "inner feeling" I believe she felt and struggled with. I've seen it before. Many times. I feel she did not "feel the approval" around her that she needed for Jennifer. (That's not to say she didn't get the approval…she didn't "feel" it.) So for years she found ways of getting that approval by doing what she knew best and could get that approval through her excellent parenting, cooking, art, and knitting. But no matter how good…it was not comforting to Jennifer that Jennifer WAS good. There are no awards or blue ribbons for being a great mother.

Note that in may cases those that suffer from some of the insecurities that she may have felt would STILL feel this even when their spouses assure them all of the time of their beauty, their goodness and conveys their love for them. This is something "deep" that can only be resolved by the person themselves. Many have said over and again that Jennifer is a wonderful and loving mother. We've heard GR say things suddenly changed. What changed? My personal opinion? I think things came crashing when she was losing some of the "control situations" that she created in order to love herself and somehow saw "normal life changes" as something she was "losing."

Example. Daughter is growing older. Child no longer wants to wear a knitted hat / matching scarf to school as it is not "in style" as to the kinds the other kids wear. I also saw a photo of Jenn's daughter in a race…taking on a joy that dad likes. Child is starting to bond with outside friends and their parents. Starting to become a young woman and finding herself and her own interests. Perhaps bonding closer to her mom's friends, or her grandparents. Things that someone who is insecure is not going to clearly understand.

Jennifer has a personality of more "dream-like" as opposed to "realistic." Interest in scifi, interest in fantasy games…things she can create and develop to her liking as opposed to "attempting to be like others around her" in life because I believe she feared that she would fail. Just like she felt she "failed" to convince doctors there IS something wrong. Failed that she couldn't run due to her feet surgery, but would dress to "fit in" and give the appearance she may be a runner…to fit in. Another sign of insecurity and vulnerability. She probably didn't play Farmville for she was "tired of having to meet others expectations" and if her farm was not as thriving as the next person it would be defeat in her own self. Playing sci fi and fantasy games is about challenges and creativity of which she was very good. Something that nobody around her does. It was something for Jennifer that Jennifer could do, feel comfortable and feel she "belonged."

→God forbid, but if someone caused Jennifer harm…I do not believe for a minute that it was anyone around her that knows and loves her. I believe if someone caused her harm…it was from a planned encounter that could have gone astray because Jennifer is/was vulnerable and may have given off the wrong message to the wrong person.

→Or. As has happened to many others, and unless we are in their shoes, we will never understand the feeling of "not being any use to anyone" or "everyone is better off without me" or "I didn't fit in with them anyhow and they will get over me quickly." This is the exact reason that I stress the importance for all to leave messages on Jennifer's wall that it is "OK" to come home. It is "ok" with their peers, children and family…because they all do love and her and will work with her to help her see she is wanted, needed and loved very much.

fringles said:

About this 'unhealthy' weight loss thing, and the diet pills.

As far as I know the only legal weight loss drug aside from some that are only prescribed to diabetics is Xenical/Orlistat/Alli. I don't know that this would be seen as an 'unhealthy' way to lose weight though unless someone had a prejudice about medication, and it has no known behavioural side effects I can see.

I presume the allusion is to amphetamine-based diet pills, in which case I'm thinking ritalin/adderall, as they're so commonly prescribed?

I would've thought Jen would've mentioned ADHD in her health rundown, but perhaps not, or perhaps it was a recent diagnosis. Or, perhaps, she was using someone else's drugs. However I guess I feel like if we're looking at someone having a sudden mental break, driving their car around in the mud then ditching their phone and vanishing, I'm not sure how likely that is to be caused by those drugs, as from reading up, the risk of psychosis is quite low, particularly without long-term abuse. Plus from what I hear about american college students and adderall, I think if it was causing psychosis, we'd be hearing about it!

Click to expand...

Actually Phentermine, Adipex, Fastin and Didrex are the most commonly prescribed legal(Amphetamine based) diet pills, IMO. I lost 65 lbs on Phentermine in 2007. I have never heard of a doctor prescribing Adderall or Ritalin for weight loss and think that would be illegal as a misuse of the medication.

Angelonline said:

Actually Phentermine, Adipex, Fastin and Didrex are the most commonly prescribed (Amphetamine based) diet pills, IMO. I lost 65 lbs on Phentermine in 2007. I have never heard of a doctor prescribing Adderall or Ritalin for weight loss and think that would be illegal as a misuse of the medication.

Click to expand...

Oh wow! I had no idea amphetamine diet pills even were or could be prescribed! I meant abuse of ritalin/adderall rather than that they were prescribed for weight loss, sorry that was unclear, and thank you!

How easy is it to get a prescription for the medications you mentioned? Is it the sort of thing you can just ask to be prescribed?

fringles said:

Oh wow! I had no idea amphetamine diet pills even were or could be prescribed! I meant abuse of ritalin/adderall rather than that they were prescribed for weight loss, sorry that was unclear, and thank you!

How easy is it to get a prescription for the medications you mentioned? Is it the sort of thing you can just ask to be prescribed?

Click to expand...

You must be 20lbs or more overweight and have tried to lose the weight in other ways.

epiphany said:

IMO, IF there is a red herring here, it is Jennifer's increase in playing iPhone games, and not her husband's extramarital affair with her "best friend."

Click to expand...

Thank you for putting into words what I have been feeling is the case!

:seeya:

Lavanda- I had asked this upthread, and want to ask again,after your last post-

I asked- Could JR have actually started 'living' a online character, offline? In a sense, becoming that character?

In that she may have sought self validation from another online character...and ultimately did so in person and the outcome was either not what she anticipated and she was harmed....or she , with help, has essentially hidden herself away?

Angelonline said:

You must be 20lbs or more overweight and have tried to lose the weight in other ways.

Click to expand...

One more question! When you were prescribed it, were there warnings at all about mental health risks/dependence/psychosis? I'm presuming they're tested thoroughly to avoid that being likely, but just wondered if it was mentioned at all.

If we are to assume that one scenario of Jennifer's disappearance was that she has "run away"....

Then why are we not seeing efforts in locating her all throughout New York?
(However... This may very well be happening.. And I am just not aware of it.)

However... IF Jennifer "ran away"... There would be a VERY big possibility that she would have crossed state lines to arrive at her destination(s).

when people are missing... With a great chance of them crossing state lines.. Isn't this where the FBI comes in to help in the investigation?

ETA... The absence of FBI presence indicates to me that LE is under the impression that Jennifer is at least within the state of New York... If not in her local area...

Big questions for me..

JMO

Londonrraine said:

Good thinking.

We better broaden our thoughts here, IMO. Wouldn't it be awful if we missed the responsible party(s) because we were too focused on one possible POI? I've heard that this is how many missing/murders cases grow cold.

Click to expand...

Perhaps, Jennifer stopped by or met her "best friend" before going shopping.

fringles said:

Oh wow! I had no idea amphetamine diet pills even were or could be prescribed! I meant abuse of ritalin/adderall rather than that they were prescribed for weight loss, sorry that was unclear, and thank you!

How easy is it to get a prescription for the medications you mentioned? Is it the sort of thing you can just ask to be prescribed?

Click to expand...

There are physicians who specialize in weight loss. I would imagine getting an Rx for an amphetamine script is fairly easy if you visit one of them.

Part two:

The Questions: (Lots of them) Please keep intact when quoting.

If Jennifer met someone, was it her intention to meet and then go home? Why did she leave her wedding band in her jewelry box that morning? Did she smuggle some of her clothing out ahead of time with the intention of not coming back? She had so many clothes that it is difficult to account for all of them. It's possible....but GR cannot grasp that as a possibility because anything that Jennifer would have wanted he would have worked through with her...including separation if that is what she felt she needed. But she did not ask for a separation or divorce....nor did he. He asked her "if you want a divorce" In other words...."What is it you want or need Jennifer? A divorce?".....while GR is finding this a difficult situation to believe or have hope for (as all families of missing feel)....I continually tell him that it is a possibility that cannot be confirmed as not happening. Until solid evidence suggests otherwise....always hope.