Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[justtrish]

IMO I think it’s likely a witness could have incorrectly remembered the color of a car but remember where it was parked and that it was parked oddly.
I do not believe it has been disclosed exactly where along CR300 North that SC saw RA. Per the PCA she was traveling east and she saw him walking west away from MHB on the north side of the road.
So that can be anywhere west of MHB on CR300 North. I have no doubt LE know exactly where RA was spotted they just have not disclosed.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Gary Hughes has a very good video that does cover the timeline of all the witnesses on a map simultaneously. You may find it helpful in visualizing the timing of events.

Absolutely Cyber Sleuth! When I read over the PCA I am not nit picking each specific detail, I'm looking at the big picture of what info LE was given from these witnesses. I think it's fair to mention when the girls encountered BG, they had no idea he was about to murder 2 girls and their recall of what he looked like or was wearing was going to be scrutinized by half of America. Same with witnesses that saw his car parked where it was. They had no idea it was going to be an important detail the needed to memorize the exact car.

I think about my day to day life and things I see. I walk, run, and hike a lot. If I encountered someone a tad creepy and I pass by and say hello and they don't respond or give me even more icky vibes, I don't tend to stare at them to memorize every detail I can. I hurry along and get out of there. If I was asked later I could for sure say I passed someone that gave me a bad feeling. I might recall they had a hat on or their expression.. seemed angry, no expression at all, no smile when I say hi, etc. I could say I saw them and how they made me feel, what time I saw them, etc. I would not want to be counted on to make a sketch for the world to scrutinize and I sure wouldn't want my description to be the end all be all of saying this was or wasn't the guy because I got the color of his pants wrong.

None of these people witnessed a crime and none of them were the victim of a crime. They had no idea they needed to tell LE later exactly what they saw in detail. I think their statements should be taken as such and seen for the big picture. He said he was there and he said he parked exactly where several people saw a car and they were able to describe it was backed in and it stood out to them. Some details might be off, but nobody said it was a mini van or a large truck. Based on what is said RA said he parked there and several people describe a car that is very similar to one he had then. Again, their recall was after the fact and not knowing they even needed to remember the color or the type of car. Same with his clothing. He told LE the direction he walked and what he was wearing. Several people saw a man similarly dressed as RA claimed he was and similar to what BG is seen wearing and they saw him at times that were consistent with his movements and what he said he did when he walked the trail. It shows that RA could be BG based on his own statements and what several people observed.

 

[photographer4]

Interesting, is a change of plea on the horizon?

"A status conference in a criminal case is a meeting between the prosecuting attorney and defense attorney to discuss the status of the case, facilitate the exchange of information, and negotiate regarding a possible resolution. The judge may also be involved in the meeting, depending on the judge and the court."

STATUS CONFERENCE

blanchard.law

I doubt it. I wonder though if JG is going to encourage both sides to try to negotiate some sort of plea deal? I just cannot see why RA would agree to one at this point. My understanding is once he accepts a plea, he looses any right to appeal upon conviction. Why would he do this at this point when imo, there is a 50/50 chance he isn't found guilty? I also cannot fathom what he might have that the state might want at this point? For all the times he is said to have made confessions (or incriminating statements), he doesn't appear (?) to have named any co-conspirators, so its not likely that he has any names to offer LE imo. You'd think he'd have done that by now if there were any he could offer to spare himself.... So really, what could the State want that he could give them??

 

[grannygates]

So this is just my personal opinion, but I looked through the notes and saw that in the confessions portion of the hearing, there was discussions about the statements falling into five buckets and how they wouldn’t deal with all buckets that day.

I believe that they dealt more generally with the mental health surrounding these and harshman gave generic ideas of the statements but not anything specific or a final number.

I could see if they wanted to go into detail about the actual statements, a final count and view the recording etc, that would be a good reason to close the court room.

 

[TTF14]

So this is just my personal opinion, but I looked through the notes and saw that in the confessions portion of the hearing, there was discussions about the statements falling into five buckets and how they wouldn’t deal with all buckets that day.

I believe that they dealt more generally with the mental health surrounding these and harshman gave generic ideas of the statements but not anything specific or a final number.

I could see if they wanted to go into detail about the actual statements, a final count and view the recording etc, that would be a good reason to close the court room.

Good theory.

 

[grannygates]

This case is like rubber.
It is amazing how it is bent and twisted to continually try to prove RA is innocent. When one issue is proven to point to RA’s guilt, something else will be seized upon and seamlessly put out there and ridden till exhausted.
When the defense team is shown to be wrong or that they admittedly mislead and lied about things in their motions, that can’t even be discussed any longer. It is ignored.
LE is continually accused of being part of a conspiracy encompassing, at this point, most of the continental United States, but the defense team, who has been making stuff up with the purpose of misleading the public, is worshipped and defended like teenage rock idols.
Whatever it takes I guess.

I think that it’s important to remember that the prosecution isn’t trying to solve this case, they’re trying to win this case. They are presenting information with a slant to prove their own theory.

Some are just more comfortable believing that the state always has it right even if the entire case is a patchwork from conflicting eyewitnesses and confessions from psychosis and there is no science anywhere to be found.

I haven’t personally come across any confirmed lie in any of the defenses filings nor has anyone pointed out any confirmed lie. Simply siding with the states or murder sheets theory doesn’t automatically make the opposing side a liar. I know that’s a reoccuring suggestion in the prosecutions filings. Everyone is a liar but Nick and GPS doesn’t work in Carroll county unless it’s just for the bridge video, then it works..for 43 seconds..but then it stops working.. make it make sense.

 

[justtrish]

So this is just my personal opinion, but I looked through the notes and saw that in the confessions portion of the hearing, there was discussions about the statements falling into five buckets and how they wouldn’t deal with all buckets that day.

I believe that they dealt more generally with the mental health surrounding these and harshman gave generic ideas of the statements but not anything specific or a final number.

I could see if they wanted to go into detail about the actual statements, a final count and view the recording etc, that would be a good reason to close the court room.

While I understand keeping these quiet so it doesn't taint a jury pool and I'm all for protecting the victims families from having these statements out on the internet possibly detailing exactly what he did to the girls. Another part of me wishes we could all hear exactly what he was saying. The defense certainly didn't worry about tainting a jury pool when crime scene photos were leaked and when their long analysis of the crime scene was put out there for all to read. They sure have shared how some of his statements didn't match the crime.. but what about the rest? How many did he made that match perfectly? What did he say to his wife in early April? So we want to be fair to RA and I guess if being fair to RA means less trauma for the victims then so be it.

 

[Salah11]

The prosecution do not always get it right but in this case it’s very obvious to see they have it bang on.

RA even places himself on the bridge at the pivotal moment dressed like BG.

This case it’s very easy to see 2-2=4!!

ETA - quite forgetting the multiple confessions that he is guilty.

imo

 

[photographer4]

We can reverse it. Who did Abby and Libby see that day? They saw KG when they were dropped off, perhaps saw others in the parking lot. Along the path, it would seem they only saw one lady and one man who they commented on and then videotaped. We know he saw them because, given the setting, it would have been impossible for him not to have, considering he was walking right toward them. Interestingly, the Defense referred to the video as one containing AW and the supposed perpetrator, which gives us information we didn't have before but long suspected -- that AW was captured in the video too.

The girls must have felt, for a time, they had the whole park nearly to themselves.

Until he trapped them. With no one else around.

The terror is beyond comprehension.

JMO

They commented on a man they saw? I’m confused - who did they comment on? BG? Did we know this before? I might need an entire keg of coffee as I don’t remember this - not to be a jerk but is there a link to this somewhere pls? I’m so out of date, I am never going to get caught up!!

 

[justtrish]

They commented on a man they saw? I’m confused - who did they comment on? BG? Did we know this before? I might need an entire keg of coffee as I don’t remember this - not to be a jerk but is there a link to this somewhere pls? I’m so out of date, I am never going to get caught up!!

I've seen it said the video Libby took has them talking about the creepy man approaching them and then one of them mentioning a gun and then we know the rest.. Guys, down the hill.

 

[Megnut]

Any defendant at any time, right up until the jury renders a verdict, can confess iiuc. Pleading guilty and a plea agreement/deal are two different things. Pleas are often unsatisfsctory but spare trial. Some pleas are distasteful as in the case of sweetheart deals for a lesser player, dancing with the devil to secure a testimony/evidence that convicts a bigger player, for example. No plea deal for RA, he could simply plead. Guilty to all of it. Straight to sentencing. MOO

I am of the opinion that RA might confess, plead guilty, make a sworn statement if he felt his family would support him and if his attorneys would let him.

IMO he's not repentent, he's needy. Perhaps pathologically so. I do think he thought life was over for him when he saw what the State has on him, but couldn't bear the thought of eternal separation. But now he's made the opposite choice, seeking approval such as it is.

I don't think empathy factors into any of his actions and reactions.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

They commented on a man they saw? I’m confused - who did they comment on? BG? Did we know this before? I might need an entire keg of coffee as I don’t remember this - not to be a jerk but is there a link to this somewhere pls? I’m so out of date, I am never going to get caught up!!

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

www.wthr.com

 

[ClearAhead]

dbm

 

[Yemelyan]

Is the supposition that whatever car was parked there was trying conceal its license plate because it was backed in? Only because it was backed in?

The probable cause affidavit only says that the witness stated it appeared to him as though the car was "backed in as to conceal the license plate of the vehicle." So it was his unique opinion. If he takes the stand, I'm sure they would question him to expand on why he thought that backing in was an attempt to do that. I wonder if it was backed in in such a way that only the front part of the hood could be seen from some angles? This could explain why more than one witness thought something was odd about it, why their descriptions of the car varied, and why one witness thought it was a smaller car like a Smart car.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding PCA posted: Witness "advised she said “Hi” to the male but he just glared at them.”

I know a witness can be unreliable; however, wonder if this witness will be able to identify RA during trial, or if witness already identified him in a line up? moo

Her name is redacted but I think this is everything she said about him. If they call her to the stand, how will they justify her description compared to the guy seen in the video? From her description, she didn't seem to see much of his face. One of the others didn't get a good look at this face, either, but believed him to be a white male.

___advised she said "Hi" to the male but he just glared at them.
She recalled him being in all black and had something covering his mouth.
She described him as "not very tall" with bigger build
She said he was not bigger than 5' 10".
___advised he was wearing black hoodie, black jeans, and black boots.
She stated he had his hands in his pockets.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[sunshineray]

I doubt it. I wonder though if JG is going to encourage both sides to try to negotiate some sort of plea deal? I just cannot see why RA would agree to one at this point. My understanding is once he accepts a plea, he looses any right to appeal upon conviction. Why would he do this at this point when imo, there is a 50/50 chance he isn't found guilty? I also cannot fathom what he might have that the state might want at this point? For all the times he is said to have made confessions (or incriminating statements), he doesn't appear (?) to have named any co-conspirators, so its not likely that he has any names to offer LE imo. You'd think he'd have done that by now if there were any he could offer to spare himself.... So really, what could the State want that he could give them??

An agreement to plea guilty and explain what he did, in court. He's already done it elsewhere many many times. This case, IMO is nowhere near 50/50, at all. I wonder if the heated conversation at the bar at the close of the third hearing had anything to do with RA's new living conditions and new confessions. MO

 

[ClearAhead]

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

www.wthr.com

More curious than ever what was mentioned about this man.

DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) - State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."

 

[FrostedGlass]

An agreement to plea guilty and explain what he did, in court. He's already done it elsewhere many many times. This case, IMO is nowhere near 50/50, at all. I wonder if the heated conversation at the bar at the close of the third hearing had anything to do with RA's new living conditions and new confessions. MO

What is that part that I highlighted?

Who was having a heated convo at the bar?

 

[ClearAhead]

An agreement to plea guilty and explain what he did, in court. He's already done it elsewhere many many times. This case, IMO is nowhere near 50/50, at all. I wonder if the heated conversation at the bar at the close of the third hearing had anything to do with RA's new living conditions and new confessions. MO

Indeed RA’s confessions continued while at two different prisons. What if he continues to confess at Cass County Jail? The D will run out of excuses.

'Motive' for Delphi 'killer' refusing plea deal despite 61 confessions uncovered

ACCUSED Delphi murderer Richard Allen has allegedly confessed to killing two teen girls more than 60 times since his arrest in 2022, but questions have been raised over why he hasn’t taken a …

www.the-sun.com

“Allen's confessions lasted throughout 2023 and into 2024, per state testimony.”

 

[ClearAhead]

Her name is redacted but I think this is everything she said about him. If they call her to the stand, how will they justify her description compared to the guy seen in the video? From her description, she didn't seem to see much of his face. One of the others didn't get a good look at this face, either, but believed him to be a white male.

___advised she said "Hi" to the male but he just glared at them.
She recalled him being in all black and had something covering his mouth.
She described him as "not very tall" with bigger build
She said he was not bigger than 5' 10".
___advised he was wearing black hoodie, black jeans, and black boots.
She stated he had his hands in his pockets.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

If the man on the bridge is RA then it’s true “he’s not very tall” and is still walking with his hands in his pockets on the bridge. If this witnesses saw him in a shaded area his clothing could indeed appear black.

So IMO his young witness’s detailed memory will impress the heck out of the jury. The D wouldn’t dare rip her to shreds on the witness stand because they know how much jury’s hate that, especially if it causes her to break down.

In my view it’s us who are glaring at these young witnesses through a magnifying glass. But imagine for a second how horrific it must have been for them to find out later they were in almost the same place as the vicious kidnapped/murderer of Libby and Abby, who they probably knew. The trauma caused to them has to be very difficult to overcome.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think that it’s important to remember that the prosecution isn’t trying to solve this case, they’re trying to win this case. They are presenting information with a slant to prove their own theory.

Some are just more comfortable believing that the state always has it right even if the entire case is a patchwork from conflicting eyewitnesses and confessions from psychosis and there is no science anywhere to be found.

I haven’t personally come across any confirmed lie in any of the defenses filings nor has anyone pointed out any confirmed lie. Simply siding with the states or murder sheets theory doesn’t automatically make the opposing side a liar. I know that’s a reoccuring suggestion in the prosecutions filings. Everyone is a liar but Nick and GPS doesn’t work in Carroll county unless it’s just for the bridge video, then it works..for 43 seconds..but then it stops working.. make it make sense.

Being aligned with the Prosecution really does take faith.

It might seem that all of those that believe RA is the right person to stand trial are blindly accepting all the P says as truth. That really isn't the case.

Many on this forum have been critical of LE over the years.

But, regardless, here we are 7 and a half years later, and each of us now have basically made a choice on whether or not RA is the man who approached the girls and led them to their deaths


LE has made mistakes. This case should not have taken this long to be where it is.

I hope that we can all agree that there was no rush to judgement.

To approve of the DT and their accusations requires people to believe that every person that worked tirelessly for years are in reality framing a small town pharmacy technician. That just doesn't make sense. That would include investigators, attorneys, judges, witnesses , the families, medical personnel and even the coroner.( Among others)

The Prosecutor has respected the gag order. So, for those that support the P and LE are going with the facts set forward and are willing to wait for trial.
The
Prosecution have been accused of withholding evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.

In reality, it has been shown that the DT has had access to discovery and ' missed " it somehow while crying foul play. The missing exculpatory evidence doesn't or hasn't yet been proven to be exculpatory. We know that the DT blames Heathens that were looked at, investigated and ultimately dismissed.



The DT has been willing to share information about the crime that should have been left for trial. They are quite theatrical and raised conspiracy theories that have potentially tainted the jury pool.

Blaming people and publicly naming them feels like a dirty trick. It has made them ( the DT) appear devious and shameless.

We all know that legally RA is innocent until proven guilty, but none of us will be on the jury, so our opinions are allowed.

This case seemed like it could have gone cold. Thank goodness LE kept working. They never gave up.

It seems inconceivable that all of that work would end up framing an innocent man.


AJMO