17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #8

[EGirl]

And IMO he called him a "c***."

How does that make my statement untrue? Because you think you heard goon and I heard "c***?" No, that doesn't make my statement untrue. It means you do not share the same opinion.

No you're statement is untru because you didn't post the actual statements but your interpretation of them.

This is what you wrote, and I can't find this quoted anywhere in the transcript:

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon was walking, looking suspicious, high as a kite, checking him out, and then running. He was an *advertiser censored**hole and a *advertiser censored**ing c***. That is what Trayvon was doing.

 

[JeannaT]

Couldn't he have just locked his doors and driven away? It's kinda hard for a pedestrian to drag someone out of a moving vehicle.

Yes, he could have. Which is basically what everyone else does in that complex - they see a need for help, hear screaming, and they cower and call 911. Not everyone does that, thank goodness. I'd hate to think that someone I loved was out there screaming for help and no one would.

I like to think in my neighborhood some people would actually come out to help - carrying heat.

 

[HiHater]

This post put it all in perspective for me.

George Zimmerman was a resident in this gated community, Trayvon wasn't.
George Zimmerman has an investment in the community.

George Zimmerman had every right (if not more)to be walking on the same street in HIS gated community as Trayvon Martin.

Trayvon Martin had no right to attack George Zimmerman because he got out of his truck or walked on the same street as TM.

In fact, why should a citizen have to stay in his #!#!#!# car in order to not be attacked, and what does one call someone who attacks another for daring to get out of his car and walk on the same street ?

I agree that this case is loaded with media hounds, but disagree that Joe Oliver is one of them. I don't think he should shut up or go home just because he's defending GZ.

No one has more of a right to lawfully be in a community than anyone else, just by virtue of the fact that one person is visiting and the other is not. It is not George Zimmerman's gated community. He rents one property, and that's all he can claim "ownership" of.

It's not fact that Trayvon attacked GZ, and GZ did more than "walk the same street" as Trayvon, he did more than get out of his truck.

Joe Oliver seems to be more concerned about himself than GZ. He is even making the classic "If I am wrong" statements now. He was trotted out as Zimmerman's close black friend, and that characterization of their relationship was absolutely blown to pieces last night. In most interviews that I've seen, Joe makes it a point to say "as an AA male." Which goes without saying, we look at the TV and see the obvious.

:moo::twocents:

 

[Kimberlyd125]

But unlike apartments that are almost always rented, condos are usually owned by an individual or company.
They might then rent them out, but condos are normally, in my experience, considered homes.

JMO by what I've heard condos referred as.

 

[JeannaT]

No one has more of a right to lawfully be in a community than anyone else, just by virtue of the fact that one person is visiting and the other is not. It is not George Zimmerman's gated community. He rents one property, and that's all he can claim "ownership" of.

It's not fact that Trayvon attacked GZ, and GZ did more than "walk the same street" as Trayvon, he did more than get out of his truck.

Joe Oliver seems to be more concerned about himself than GZ. He is even making the classic "If I am wrong" statements now. He was trotted out as Zimmerman's close black friend, and that characterization of their relationship was absolutely blown to pieces last night. In most interviews that I've seen, Joe makes it a point to say "as an AA male." Which goes without saying, we look at the TV and see the obvious.

:moo::twocents:

Renters have a LOT of rights. More than guests, for sure.

But I'll give you that - both had every right to be where they were.

 

[Concerned Papa]

To be fair, M00c0w used this diagram as reference in his/her post, not the one you've posted with the the vertical line changed to magenta.

BBM


REITERATING HERE!

NO ONE ever has the right to ALTER the work of another to make THEIR point. Feel free to draft your own diagrams but do not ever alter another member's work without THEIR permission!

I did NOT alter the work of another! I took the time to REDRAW the drawing in Google so a scale could be included for distance measurement. Why would I go to that effort and subjectively only change the color of ONE line to illustrate my understanding of her meaning?

However, I agree with both of you, so let's be fair. Please read below.

Dude, what are you talking about? I clearly delineated what I was talking about with colors. Why you chose to make one of the faces of the triangle a different color than I did, I don't know. Are you claiming that the red horizontal path that appears to be 200 feet is really 900 feet?

Look at my illustration again, and go with what I wrote.

Let's do exactly that, but instead of guessing at the length as to what it "appears", let's be, at least, a bit more accurate and use the handy scale provided by Google whose reference is the ONLY reason I redrew your map.

I certainly meant no disrepect by changing the one line from your magenta to red. I actually thought your reference to his stopping his search to return was "somewhere towards the end of this magenta pathway". I only made it red to illustrate what I believed you were saying as to where he stopped.

Please accept my apology.

Now that I'm CRYSTAL clear that you think he walked this entire magenta colored line of travel before he turned to go back to his vehicle, let's measure it at the scale of 1-1/8 inches = 100 feet provided by Google in MY magenta eclipse.

-The red east to west line is 2-7/8" long or 255.5 feet in length.

-The magenta north south line closest to the buildings is 6-1/8" long or 544.4 feet in length.

-The short magenta line is 1-1/2" long or 133.3 feet in length

-The continuation magenta line back to the juncture with the red east to west line is also 6-1/8" long or 544.4 feet in length.

The total distance for your red line and all three of your magenta lines equals 1,477.6 feet, just a little bit more than the 200 feet stated in the comment this references, KWIM Dude?

All in what the 911 call transcript AND the comment below apparently indicates as being 28 seconds:

~Respectfullu Snipped For Comment~

It was somewhere towards the end of this magenta pathway that I believe he was told to stop following Martin, and he did. He turned around and headed back towards his vehicle.

Originally Posted by HiHater
~Respectfully Snipped~

:43 Trayvon is staring at houses
:49 Trayvon is staring at Zimmerman
:56 Near the clubhouse
:58 Trayvon is coming towards Zimmerman
1:23 Trayvon is going to check Zimmerman out
1:38 *advertiser censored**holes get away
2:07 Trayvon is running
2:10 hear car dings as if the door opens, Trayvon headed toward back entrance
2:20 heavy breathing/wind…racial slur (?)
2:23 dispatch asks Zimmerman if he’s following him
2:26 dispatch says “we don’t need you to do that”
2:28 Zimmerman responds by saying “Okay”
2:38 Zimmerman says again “he ran”
2:55 Zimmerman say he wants to meet with an officer
3:17 Zimmerman says go past mailboxes, you’ll see my truck
3:36 Zimmerman doesn’t know where Trayvon is
3:44 Zimmerman agrees to meet by mailboxes
3:51 Zimmerman wants to be called instead

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, he could have. Which is basically what everyone else does in that complex - they see a need for help, hear screaming, and they cower and call 911. Not everyone does that, thank goodness. I'd hate to think that someone I loved was out there screaming for help and no one would.

I like to think in my neighborhood some people would actually come out to help - carrying heat.

What? GZ killed Trayvon to save somebody who was screaming for help?

Sorry, I fail to see the relevance.

If he had stayed in his car there would have been nobody screaming for help.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I gave you a link to a transcript of the call.

When you actually listen to the call and not read a transcript, you can tell that that is not how it was said. He was not telling the dispatcher he didn't want to give out his address because he didn't know where the kid was. He told the dispatcher he didn't want to give the address. Then exasperated, said he didn't know where the kid was. He was looking for him. MOO

 

[tehcloser]

I think we probably will.

His mother has already trademarked the phrases "I am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon", for use in future CD's and DVD's, so it's fair to say they have aggressive legal counsel that will probably go through a civil lawsuit.

I wonder who actually came up with the phrase "I am Trayvon" and whether they'd have a say in profits. "Justice for Trayvon" is generic enough that it would be hard to imagine who originally stated it, but "I am Trayvon" in this tragedy is kind of a unique thing to say.

http://rollingout.com/culture/trayvon-martin-trademark/

A few years ago...I might have disagreed with the trademark thing, but now I'm glad they did. They need some sort of control over what it is used for, especially in a case this big.

 

[annalia]

And IMO he called him a "c***."

How does that make my statement untrue? Because you think you heard goon and I heard "c***?" No, that doesn't make my statement untrue. It means you do not share the same opinion.

And even if he said effin goons, there are other definitions of goons. Goons is supposed to be ok and any better?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goon

JMHO

 

[HiHater]

I find it interesting that GZ's past brushes with the law are so very minor and not worth the money to pursue via the justice system and this explains why charges were dropped. These facts are not supposed to be a factor in my assessment of the situation.

those same posters who assure me that GZ's past encounters with LE are not relevant to this debate are the ones who seem to view TM's school record of suspensions as very relevant into what sort of character he had and why he is no angel, going so far as to speculate that TM may have been scoring drugs or casing houses that night based off of this school history.

There is a double standard being applied across this country in relation to this case, on BOTH sides of the debate IMO

For myself, I am trying to leave GZ's past AND TM's past out of the equation and look at the events of THAT night.

At first blush, when this story first broke, I was very adamant that GZ was an out of control vigilante racist out spoiling for a fight with his gun.

As more details are coming out, my opinion has morphed. I now admit, I do not know whether GZ is a racists, a vigilante, a guy who wanted to use his gun. I still remain convinced that GZ is the sort of individual who craves LE contact, whose position as neighborhood watch captain (self appointed or no) is the source of much of his self esteem. I still feel strongly that GZ was overzealous, overstepped his authority, and his actions that night directly led to the shooting and killing of TM.

School records have no bearing on real life. Anyone ever filled out a job application that asks how many times you've been suspended from school? I haven't. BUT I have filled out job applications that ask if I've ever been arrested/charged/convicted for/with a felony.

Most juvenile delinquents do not persist in criminal activity throughout their life span. Trayvon Martin's time on this earth, his chance to "get right" was taken away from him.

Not necessarily responding to you, sorry I just quoted you...and JMO

 

[JeannaT]

What? GZ killed Trayvon to save somebody who was screaming for help?

Sorry, I fail to see the relevance.

No. GZ was screaming for help, and had anyone showed up to help, it's unlikely Trayvon would have been shot. If people started flooding out into the courtyard, GZ wouldn't have shot him.

I do know this is open to interpretation, and others can have different "takes" on this, but that's my "take". Had there been any back up for GZ he wouldn't have had to use his gun. IMHO of course.

 

[vlpate]

It was a condo. Although they are called "townhomes" by this complex, they're no different from Condos - that is, they aren't stand alone houses. It looks, visually, like an apartment complex.

http://www.mynewplace.com/apartment...retreat-at-twin-lakes-sanford-fl-3b0591765608

Townhome just means no one living above. I agree, they look like apartments, and they are quite pricey for the square footage. I've seen these deals before, they sell the condos and the owners rent them out. Not always, but many times. The kicker - people think they are renting an actual apartment with maintenance and upkeep by the community and find out they are on their own for repairs. At least this one has an HOA.
http://www.mynewplace.com/apartment...retreat-at-twin-lakes-sanford-fl-3b0591765608

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Please continue here.
Remember the rules: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.
Please stick with the facts and link them. Link them often if necessary.
Please clearly state when it is your opinion, speculation only.
PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.
Please, please stay respectful of each other.
Thanks,
Salem
__________________

Please remember your IMOs and JMOs
It's entirely possible to disagree with another poster's interpretation in a manner that is respectful and not aggressive. In fact, we expect that out of our sleuthers. And it's absolutely paramount when emotions start running high.

Sometimes folks just have to agree to disagree. And there's nothing wrong with that.

:bump:

 

[tlcya]

School records have no bearing on real life. Anyone ever filled out a job application that asks how many times you've been suspended from school? I haven't. BUT I have filled out job applications that ask if I've ever been arrested/charged/convicted for/with a felony.

Most juvenile delinquents do not persist in criminal activity throughout their life span. Trayvon Martin's time on this earth, his chance to "get right" was taken away from him.

Not necessarily responding to you, sorry I just quoted you...and JMO

No worries, I understood you were simply jumping off my thought and following it where it led you.

:hug: my friend.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I am little confused about GZ refusal to relay his unit number to LE because he might be overheard by the boy. Is that really how the conv\versation went? That would show fear on GZ 's part to me if its true.

 

[EGirl]

And even if he said effin goons, there are other definitions of goons. Goons is supposed to be ok and any better?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goon

JMHO

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the local terminology that Urban Dictionary claims was penned in Florida by men as a term THEY use to call themselves real men or Ni$$as.

I can't find one credible link to the word to mean anything other than a or rough neck. I often call men who fight 'goons' and it's ridiculous to put a racial spin on that

 

[AnaTeresa]

A few years ago...I might have disagreed with the trademark thing, but now I'm glad they did. They need some sort of control over what it is used for, especially in a case this big.

I agree. I would have found the trademark bit distasteful a few years ago, but after seeing how people try to capitalize off others' tragedies, I'm glad they did so. It will cut down on quite a bit of craziness in the long run.

 

[LolaMoon08]

No you're statement is untru because you didn't post the actual statements but your interpretation of them.

This is what you wrote, and I can't find this quoted anywhere in the transcript:

MY QUOTE:

According to Zimmerman, Trayvon was walking, looking suspicious, high as a kite, checking him out, and then running. He was an *advertiser censored**hole and a *advertiser censored**ing c***. That is what Trayvon was doing.

When did Zimmerman not say Trayvon was walking? When did Zimmerman not say Trayvon looked suspicious? When did Zimmerman not say Trayvon was on something (drugs)? When did Zimmerman not say Trayvon was checking him out? When did Zimmerman not say Trayvon was running? When did Zimmerman not say "*advertiser censored**holes?" When did Zimmerman not say "c***?"

Which part of that is not true? Just the goon/c*** part? No, that's a difference of opinion.

 

[EGirl]

When you actually listen to the call and not read a transcript, you can tell that that is not how it was said. He was not telling the dispatcher he didn't want to give out his address because he didn't know where the kid was. He told the dispatcher he didn't want to give the address. Then exasperated, said he didn't know where the kid was. He was looking for him. MOO

Inflection may change but the EXACT words do not.