17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #8

[m00c0w]

There is nothing logical about saying it was clearly his without all the facts. It is curious and I hope that LE researches it and the results are known.

Why would LE research it? It doesn't seem pertinent to the events of the 26th at all. I was just commenting that it's bizarre the family would deny it was his. All signs point to it being his; I'm not even sure how a reasonable argument could be made that it's not. As I said, there was nothing that I wouldn't expect from a 17 year old male on there... I don't really see the big deal.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

But because he really could not do anything, wouldn't it be best to just stay in the freaking car? GZ had no more authority than my great dane. He was not a cop, he should not have acted like one.

And it was a matter of TWO MINUTES - 120 seconds from when Trayvon's call disconnected with his gf to when the first officer arrived on scene.

That's not a long time at all.


JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

And there were no queries. More's the pity.

You don't consider, "What are you doing?" to be a query?

 

[iluvmua]

I'm not a part of a crime watch organization , but If I see a suspicios person walking on my street or in a car, I'm going to be asking questions.

To say that GZ had no right to ask TM what he was doing in his neighborhood is just absurd.

People are going to investigate a suspicious looking person weather they should or not.

 

[tehcloser]

And it was a matter of TWO MINUTES - 120 seconds from when Trayvon's call disconnected with his gf to when the first officer arrived on scene.

That's not a long time at all.


JMHO

BBM

And that is heartbreaking. Two minutes....what a difference two minutes would have made. Wow.

 

[m00c0w]

How can you say it's not? GZ went on and on saying all the burglars were black men. GZ insinuated that TM was on drugs and was carrying something in his waistband without even knowing anything about the kid. I call that racially motivated. Don't kid youself

BBM

All of the burglars that were apprehended per the burglary reports were black men, with the exception of a single white guy. I think it was a 6:1 ratio. I'm not sure it's necessarily "racially motivated" (with that connotation) when that legitimately seems to be the case.

 

[flourish]

You don't consider, "What are you doing?" to be a query?

And what about "what are you following me for?"? That's a query and GZ could have answered that with an answer instead of a question. MOO based on TM's GF's statement.

 

[songline]

Well, now I am confused if it was his father's or his father's girlfriends, :waitasec: but yes he was STAYING there while he was suspended. Not living, but staying a few days.

ETA: WOO says I was right the first time, father's girlfriend. Whew, beer anyone?

Yes father was living with his girl friend.
I have a feeling that TM's single working mom had her hands full with a
boy who was suspended for the 3rd time.
I think that maybe she asked his father to step in and give him some tough love, and help.
The father did not have a chance to o that.

 

[tehcloser]

I'm not even in a home owner's association, but If I see a suspicion person walking on my street or in a car, I'm going to be asking questions.

To say that GZ had no right to ask TM what he was doing in his neighborhood is just absurd.

There are "rights" and there is common sense. Why take a chance on this happening or you getting shot when LE are on the way?

 

[LambChop]

BBM - WRONG...
While a neighborhood watchman should call 911 if he sees something.
HE CAN ask people to identify themselves.
Questions like do you live around here, or what are you doing around here,
or are you lost, are not at all incorrect he can do that.

I still think he was overzealous, and eager did not want anything bad happen in the neighborhood.

BEING a neighborhood watchman is no great job, especially when you don’t get paid for it. it is a community service.

That is incorrect. NWP has no authority to stop and ask anyone a question. They are a watch only program. They can't patrol, they can't follow someone claiming authority to do so, they can't harass. Everything he did once he got out of the car was wrong. There is no authority other than LE for that community. If they had a paid security guard at the gate that person has the authority to ask someone where they are going, who are they visiting, etc.

GZ was no different than any of his other neighbors except he seemed to want to control the whole community, tell people what to do, how to do, etc. You are told to observe and call if suspicious......that is it. If you still have doubt read the manual provided by LE. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm not even in a home owner's association, but If I see a suspicion person walking on my street or in a car, I'm going to be asking questions.

To say that GZ had no right to ask TM what he was doing in his neighborhood is just absurd.

Well then why didn't he roll down his window and ask him as he was walking by?

 

[m00c0w]

And what about "what are you following me for?"? That's a query and GZ could have answered that with an answer instead of a question. MOO based on TM's GF's statement.

Red herring. The claim was that there was not a query made.

 

[Bottle Cap]

You don't consider, "What are you doing?" to be a query?

Originally Posted by songline
BBM - WRONG...
While a neighborhood watchman should call 911 if he sees something.
HE CAN ask people to identify themselves.
Questions like do you live around here, or what are you doing around here,
or are you lost, are not at all incorrect he can do that.


I was referring back to this post, with regard to the subject being what authority a neighborhood watch person has.

"What are you doing" is less a query, in my mind, than it is a challenge. Especially if the person asking you has a gun.

ETA: my reason for saying it was a challenge rather than a legitimate query is that it was clear what Trayvon was doing. He was walking and talking on the phone. Far as I know, GZ's eyes worked okay, so one would expect "what are you doing" to be apparent.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

BBM

And that is heartbreaking. Two minutes....what a difference two minutes would have made. Wow.

well actually after I thought about that. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. Trayvon's phone had an incoming call (from the gf) at 7:12 that lasted 4 minutes - so that's 7:16 and the first officer arrived on scene at 7:17. So.......................... I know the round out partials.

That one 911 call has 40 seconds of the fight. I don't think there was that much time in between all this for anything big to be missed.

This happened very fast. And that is a shame - when the difference of one minute - 60 seconds would have meant that Trayvon would be alive.

Crying shame iffen ya ask me.




JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

That is incorrect. NWP has no authority to stop and ask anyone a question. They are a watch only program. They can't patrol, they can't follow someone claiming authority to do so, they can't harass. Everything he did once he got out of the car was wrong. There is no authority other than LE for that community. If they had a paid security guard at the gate that person has the authority to ask someone where they are going, who are they visiting, etc.

GZ was no different than any of his other neighbors except he seemed to want to control the whole community, tell people what to do, how to do, etc. You are told to observe and call if suspicious......that is it. If you still have doubt read the manual provided by LE. jmo

So Zimmerman is no longer a free citizen in his community because he's done volunteer time with NWP? None of these restrictions were legally binding, and he most certainly was well within the law and his rights to follow and question Martin.

 

[flourish]

So what do you think his purpose was in continuing to follow him then?

Carrying a gun does not make one hungry to kill. I am not opposed to shooting someone who is about to take my life or do great bodily harm to me including rape. I would protect the life of another as well. All those with a CCP are prepared to use their weapon of they need to. I feel you are using this fact to imply that GZ wanted to shoot someone that night.

So the police were on their way huh? How long was it before they arrived? What good would it have done if by the time they got there TM was long gone because GZ did not have a location on him? See, that's where you say it was bad judgment, but maybe it wasn't. It's only considered bad judgment to me, if GM had his gun drawn and was tracking the kid down for a confrontation, but we DO NOT KNOW THAT. It's being promoted as what happened, but I think that's unfair because we really have no idea.

And it was a matter of TWO MINUTES - 120 seconds from when Trayvon's call disconnected with his gf to when the first officer arrived on scene.

That's not a long time at all.


JMHO

RBBM
Thanks Wise Old Owl for providing the answer.

 

[songline]

And what about "what are you following me for?"? That's a query and GZ could have answered that with an answer instead of a question. MOO based on TM's GF's statement.

Ohhh...
GZ had to tell him I am a watchmen?
But TM did not have to reply?

If I was a watchperson, I would not be telling you, You may get slick.
I would only tell you if I was at your door, but not outside in the street.

 

[m00c0w]

Originally Posted by songline
BBM - WRONG...
While a neighborhood watchman should call 911 if he sees something.
HE CAN ask people to identify themselves.
Questions like do you live around here, or what are you doing around here,
or are you lost, are not at all incorrect he can do that.


I was referring back to this post, with regard to the subject being what authority a neighborhood watch person has.

"What are you doing" is less a query, in my mind, than it is a challenge. Especially if the person asking you has a gun.

BBM

There is nothing to imply that Zimmerman's weapon was visible when he asked the question. His possession of it at the time would be moot if that's the case.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Well then why didn't he roll down his window and ask him as he was walking by?

Very good point!!!!

 

[iluvmua]

ok, So did GZ get out of his car and ask TM "What are you doing here"?