17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #8

[Bottle Cap]

BBM

There is nothing to imply that Zimmerman's weapon was visible when he asked the question. His possession of it at the time would be moot if that's the case.

As would Trayvon's possible posession of drugs, a weapon, malicious intent or anything else GZ dreamed up in his vigilante mind to try and convict him of right there on the spot.

 

[songline]

He had just been there a day and it was dark and this weird guy was stalking him.

A neighborhood watchman is not a stalker.
They are supposed to watch and then watch some more, and getting out of a car does not mean you are a stalker. :nono:

 

[highflyer]

Why would LE research it? It doesn't seem pertinent to the events of the 26th at all. I was just commenting that it's bizarre the family would deny it was his. All signs point to it being his; I'm not even sure how a reasonable argument could be made that it's not. As I said, there was nothing that I wouldn't expect from a 17 year old male on there... I don't really see the big deal.

You are making it into a big deal. You cannot know for certain it was young Martin's and yet you proceed it deem it so. If it wasn't a big deal to you then I fail to see why you are not being objective.

 

[suzihawk]

WRONG so far nobody was able to find any racial anything. NO SLUR!
TM may not have committed any of the other burglars. But in the past 15 months we really do not know at all, he did have jewelry and screw driver in his locker.
He may not have smoked anything that day, but I don’t think he had an empty marijuana bag that was always empty.
Maybe GZ is a fool, maybe a cop wana be. Maybe there should be an arrest but only with a full investigation.
To the extent that there is so much information still missing and you have already made a decision, it means nothing about justice. It only means you made your mind up without much evidence.
But it does not mean you are right.

That's still up for debate, as far as I'm concerned. I've listened and re-listened. It sounds like racial slurs to me. Whether he says f'ing goons or f'ing c**ns - either way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo&feature=youtu.be

 

[justthinkin]

Even though Trayvon is no longer on this earth, he may well make a big sound that will bring needed changes. His death will not have been in vain.

Gee, we have some bad cops, we have cops who kill the wrong people, and cops who kill innocent people. Has any of that ever changed? Not to be inferring that Zimmerman was in any way shape or form associated with any kind of law enforcement.

What if it turns out that Martin jumped Zimmerman?

What kind of changes did you have in mind for the populace with guns? More gun control or no guns at all?

 

[Bottle Cap]

BBM

There is nothing to imply that Zimmerman's weapon was visible when he asked the question. His possession of it at the time would be moot if that's the case.

Furthermore, if GZ didn't identify himself, how in the he double hockeystick was TM to know he wasn't a gangbanger himself? How was TM to know he lived in the neighborhood? What was there to distinguish GZ from any other freak who slows the car down and starts talking smack?

 

[m00c0w]

You are making it into a big deal. You cannot know for certain it was young Martin's and yet you proceed it deem it so. If it wasn't a big deal to you then I fail to see why you are not being objective.

I'm not being objective because I look at the evidence and see it for what it is?

lol, okay.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Did anyone see this?

Matt Gutman ‏ @mattgutmanABC

Reply
Retweet
Favorite
· Open

Watch @ABCWorldNews now for exclusive video of George Zimmerman the night he shot #Trayvon Martin. Only on @ABC more on @GMA tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/#!/mattgutmanABC

Matt Gutman ‏ @mattgutmanABC

Reply
Retweet
Favorite
· Open

We bring you the first video of George Zimmerman at the police station the night on @ABCWorldNews . Does he look like he has a broken nose?

 

[songline]

Just to be clear, if I ever stated here that I believe GZ went out to deliberately kill TM, I did not intend to imply that.

I don't know he had intent to kill, but I don't believe his sole purpose for pursuing TM was simply to observe and report. He'd observed. He'd reported. They were on their way.

They are supposed to watch and watch.
Mr. overzealous, just did not want TM to disappear,
GZ wanted to be sure the kid will be delivered to the police.

I do not know what exactly happened once GZ left his car, nobody does.

 

[m00c0w]

Furthermore, if GZ didn't identify himself, how in the he double hockeystick was TM to know he wasn't a gangbanger himself? How was TM to know he lived in the neighborhood? What was there to distinguish GZ from any other freak who slows the car down and starts talking smack?

Asking "What are you doing" leads people to believe you're nefarious and up to no good?

 

[suzihawk]

I'm not a part of a crime watch organization , but If I see a suspicios person walking on my street or in a car, I'm going to be asking questions.

To say that GZ had no right to ask TM what he was doing in his neighborhood is just absurd.

People are going to investigate a suspicious looking person weather they should or not.

But TM wasn't doing anything suspicious. Unless you consider 'looking about' while walking throough the neighborhood h was visiting or wearing a hoodie - and perhaps being black while doing both. JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/a...d-stop-playing-race-card-over-trayvon-martin/

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s niece is criticizing the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson for politicizing the Trayvon Martin shooting and leveraging racial tensions to rile up Americans.

 

[songline]

At DC press conference yesterday Martin family atty Benjamin Crump said the Twitter acct referred to by Daily Mail/Daily Caller is NOT TRAYVON’S & they've spoken with Twitter about it. So, not Trayvon’s twitter acct or his tweets. Press conf aired on HLN Special Report yesterday, last 10 min of show (I dvr’d, just watched)… I couldn’t find transcript at hln but someone in msm probably covered presser too?
- - - - -
"The Conservative news site the Daily Caller and the blog the Wagist claim they have unearthed a Twitter account, which has since been taken down, that belonged to the teen. The site says Trayvon went by the Twitter handle NO_LIMIT_*****."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Maybe the twitter account was not his, but parents do not always
know which social network their 17 year old are on.
Common.

 

[ziggy]

BBM - This is where your argument falls short. Trayvon was not an actual perp. Zimmerman made the wrong choice by going after him. He is therefore guilty of manslaughter/negligent homicide.

Zimmerman had no authority in demanding answers from Trayvon.

jmo

Hey. I was replying to a HYPOTHETICAL about an actual perp and observing and reporting. Read the previous post. My argument was just because you can't get a location on a perp doesn't mean that only property will be lost as burglery perps are capable of escalating to murder so it may be reasonable to follow the suspicious person at a safe distance so that LE will be able to question them. I never said TM was an actual perp.

And what do you mean by "going after?" Under the law he is not guilty of manslaughter by simply following someone in order to report their location to the authorities. He is not guilty of manslaughter if he shot TM in self defense. If TM was the physical agressor and had him on the ground he is not guilty.

My point is neither your or I know what happened once the initial words were exchanged so we cannot say for sure who is the victim here.

 

[Bottle Cap]

Asking "What are you doing" leads people to believe you're nefarious and up to no good?

Should a hostile man I've never seen before as me that question as I'm walking down the road minding my own business, dang sure my alarm bells are going to go off. Am I to assume he's the neighborhood watch chieftan? Naw.

 

[Footwarrior]

well actually after I thought about that. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. Trayvon's phone had an incoming call (from the gf) at 7:12 that lasted 4 minutes - so that's 7:16 and the first officer arrived on scene at 7:17. So.......................... I know the round out partials.

That one 911 call has 40 seconds of the fight. I don't think there was that much time in between all this for anything big to be missed.

This happened very fast. And that is a shame - when the difference of one minute - 60 seconds would have meant that Trayvon would be alive.

Crying shame iffen ya ask me.

JMHO

A good source with accurate times for the following calls would tell us a lot:

When did GZ hang up with 911?
When did the call from TM to his girlfriend get cut off?
When did the 911 call where we hear the gunshots start?

Cell phone networks records times to the second or better. And any 911 system should be doing the same.

Background noises in GZ's 911 call may give us hints about his location. When he left his truck, when he seems to be running, when he seems to be stepping on gravel. Near the end of the call, GZ slows down, lowers his voice and seems to be concerned that the suspect may be in earshot.

Did GZ hang up only a few seconds before the encounter with TM started?

 

[wishuwerehere]

BBM - WRONG...
While a neighborhood watchman should call 911 if he sees something.
HE CAN ask people to identify themselves.
Questions like do you live around here, or what are you doing around here,
or are you lost, are not at all incorrect he can do that.

I still think he was overzealous, and eager did not want anything bad happen in the neighborhood.

BEING a neighborhood watchman is no great job, especially when you don’t get paid for it. it is a community service.

Zimmerman is a self-appointed neighborhood watchmen. He doesn't have any more authority than you or me.

I can self-appoint myself the Queen of England. And no one will care. However, if I'm packing heat, you may call me Your Majesty!

jmo

 

[vlpate]

He can ask, but unless the Homeowner's Assocation issued him a Barney Fife badge and some official papers, there's no authority whatsoever to demand or even expect an answer.

There's a sign at the entrance of the property that states the area is patrolled by Neighborhood Watch. Assuming Trayvon could read, and I'm assuming he could, he would know that he might be watched....in the neighborhood. This should have come as no surprise. Instead of checking Zimmerman out and running off, he should have simply walked home. Zimmerman was doing nothing threatening -, he wasn't wearing a ski mask (which I have three of in my chest of drawers), or hiding behind trees - Zimmerman was in his truck, calling LE, as he was taught.

Trayvon ran and then, apparently, walked somewhere other than his home. Zimmerman lost him at that point. However they somehow met up again, when Trayvon asked, "why are you following me" and Zimmerman allegedly asked, "what are you doing around here?", Trayvon SHOULD have replied, "visiting my dad down by the entrance gate". Done. Trayvon is on his way - no harm no foul, Zimmerman meets the cops that arrived one minute later and tells them what Trayvon told him and they call it a day.

If Zimmerman is a resident of the gated community, he owns his home and has a right to ask anyone acting suspicious and not known to him what they are doing on the property - especially if they are walking around, looking at houses, staring at him, coming toward him, and then running away.

A 17 year old young man with all the manners and attributes given him by his parents in the press would have politely identified himself when asked. Zimmerman was doing nothing sinister. Zimmerman was not on Trayvon's property.

If the account we are hearing from LE is true, Trayvon should have just answered a simple question - or he should have been closer than 70 yards to his destination if he was "scared".

JMO

 

[tehcloser]

Gee, we have some bad cops, we have cops who kill the wrong people, and cops who kill innocent people. Has any of that ever changed?

What kind of changes did you have in mind for the populace with guns? More gun control or no guns at all?

There are more things than "gun control" that need changing.

 

[LambChop]

BBM


But here's the rub.......you don't have to answer him. He has no "legal" authority. Soooooooooo, that's where you need to make sure you have the right person as head of something like that. They simply need to observe and call LE.

I think the misconception here is "as head". GZ was never the head of anything other than an administrative coordinator/contact person in terms of setting up meetings. He had no authority. He could not patrol claiming to be NW. Everyone was responsible for their own property and watching, reporting and no one person was more responsible than the next. As a Criminal Justice major he would know that, if not the meetings he attended with LE explaining what the program is all about, and again, if he still didn't get it it's common sense.

By his own actions he has given people the idea that NWP is somehow an intercommunity police protection society and it's not. Even if you argue he was acting as security he never identified himself to TM with LE on the line. Why??? Maybe because he knew he would be corrected. Watch Captain does not apply to him because they don't have any. Security may have them but their community security consists of a gate and a camera.

This is what you would hear in court. His responsibility under the program was to watch and report never to pursue. At the point he decided to follow without cause (viable cause not some fantasy he was entertaining) he was stalking TM. ZG felt justified in his own mind but he was wrong, dead wrong. His background will hurt him because he can't claim ignorance. He knew better. He is every police officer's nightmare. jmo