17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

[iluvmua]

But that's exactly what people are implying here. Because Zimmerman was part of NWP, he should not have had his gun on him. That's what all of the "rules" say, too. If NWP is just watching and observing as an ordinary citizen, does that mean you're relinquishing your 2A rights if you join/affiliate yourself with such a program?

If florida has the same statures at Texas, If he was on active duty that night as a watch person then no, he could not have his weapon on him but if he was not on duty at the time then he could have his gun with him.

 

[csziggy]

They're not done writing it? sarcasm-

Is this the guy who supposedly said that he told them to stop and he was going upstairs to call 911, yet we've heard all of the 911 calls from that night except for his?

JMHO

He could be the caller before the one call with the screams:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html
Call 2

My notes on the call are: I just heard a shot; there were two men wrestling; there's a guy yelling "Help" - OMG he's dead; black guy down, shot, dead.

I was just making notes - they are not any kind of transcript of the call.

 

[m00c0w]

Oh, that is what you are doing. :waitasec:

You are concerned with what individual posters here what say is okay, not the law? Well, I say you can do what the law says you can as this surely must come up a lot.

I feel like I'm being lured on away on a little side trip or something...huh.

Not at all. I was just looking for input on when a NWP affiliate can behave as a normal citizen.

 

[RANCH]

I have a question to anyone who has join a Neighborhood Watch Program. Did you sign any kind of legal contract that stated what you could or couldn't do in regards to your duties. And if so did this contract state that these restrictions or requirements applied at all times or only when officially acting as a Watch member. Did the contract state when you are to be considered officially acting as a Watch member, or are you considered "on the job" 24/7?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Red herring. I'm not talking about facilities restricted by statutory law. I'm talking about his neighborhood.

Here's the way I look at it and I live in a gated condo development in Central Florida. I take exception to the categorization of it being "his" neighborhood when he owns not one square inch of the property he's running around on, armed with a deadly weapon and chasing what he perceives as the bad guys.

I'll give you all the Constitutional right to bear arms you want or need. I'll give you all the right to walk around in the rain trying to catch teenagers in hoodies, but NOT on any real estate that I own all or a part of when you own NOTHING and therefore do not, at least, share in my liability for your actions.

This guy's actions, whether criminal or not, will affect every single property owner in Rain Tree for years to come because he killed a mother's son on the Association's common grounds owned EQUALLY by all deeded property owners in the development. In this case, it was apparently sanctioned by the HOA and they will pay for that stupidity with their homes before it's all over.

But guess what, IF George Zimmerman is successful in his defense using Florida's SYG law? He will have ZERO civil liability by statute as well. It's the LAW!

Anyone walking around my home, in my gated community, had better be either an owner or get ready to go to jail. I've said it repeatedly, the O sandwiched between the H and A does NOT stand for renter.

Rain Tree's gonna learn that lesson the hard way.

 

[LambChop]

Up until that night, I'm not sure he ever really did more than observe and report. He may have observed a lot and reported a lot, but he was doing what you're supposed to do.

Yes, and that wasn't working too well for him....LE's slow response because "they always get away" so this time he was determined that TM was headed for the back gate and he pursued with deadly force. His irresponsible actions caused a death. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

If florida has the same statures at Texas, If he was on active duty that night as a watch person then no, he could not have his weapon on him but if he was not on duty at the time then he could have his gun with him.

But that's what I'm saying - I don't believe neighborhood watch actually has duty times. It's a constant thing. You're just saying you'll keep an extra careful eye on the neighborhood and report what you see to the police if it seems off. Essentially, you're always on duty when you're in your neighborhood.

 

[Isabelle]

I'm hearing the SA drove 50 miles to get to the scene that night? Am I understanding this correctly...JMHO

Wow, wonder how long it took him to get there? Surely GZ was no longer at the scene, since he was at the police station about 35 minutes after the shooting. Does anyone know what time GZ was released?

 

[TonyGatto]

But people keep bringing up that NWP isn't supposed to do this, NWP isn't supposed to do that... He's still a resident of the neighborhood and a citizen. I'm asking when the delineation occurs between someone being an NWP member and someone being a normal civilian.

I'd say when he started following Trayvon and calling the cops is when he became an NWP member that night. Being a normal civilian is what the witnesses did. They called 911, stayed put, and waited for police.

 

[Tulessa]

But people keep bringing up that NWP isn't supposed to do this, NWP isn't supposed to do that... He's still a resident of the neighborhood and a citizen. I'm asking when the delineation occurs between someone being an NWP member and someone being a normal civilian.

He knows darn well the rules of the NWP. If he wants to do that, that's fine, but LEAVE your gun at home while on duty. No One's saying he should give up his gun...

 

[Lovejac]

He also kept going on about how it was too dark to tell who was where, apparently including clothing colors.

:waitasec:

Well, we know Trayvon didn't get up, obviously. So that ONLY leaves GZ that the witness could have seen getting up.

 

[m00c0w]

Here's the way I look at it and I live in a gated condo development in Central Florida. I take exception to the categorization of it being "his" neighborhood when he owns not one square inch of the property he's running around on, armed with a deadly weapon and chasing what he perceives as the bad guys.

I'll give you all the Constitutional right to bear arms you want or need. I'll give you all the right to walk around in the rain trying to catch teenagers in hoodies, but NOT on any real estate that I own all or a part of when you own NOTHING and therefore do not, at least, share in my liability for your actions.

This guy's actions, whether criminal or not, will affect every single property owner in Rain Tree for years to come. In this case, it was apparently sanctioned by the HOA and they will pay for that stupidity with their homes before it's all over.

But guess what, IF George Zimmerman is successful in his defense using Florida's SYG law? He will have ZERO civil liability by statute as well. It's the LAW!

Anyone walking around my home, in my gated community, had better be either an owner or get ready to go to jail. I've said it repeatedly, the O sandwiched between the H and A does NOT stand for renter.

Raib Tree's gonna learn that lesson the hard way.

So if he/his wife was an actual owner, you'd... Not be okay with it... Let me rephrase.

If I was a homeowner in your neighborhood, would you be okay with me carrying my weapon if I went out for a stroll? (I promise I'm a responsible gun owner)

 

[LolaMoon08]

Wow, wonder how long it took him to get there? Surely GZ was no longer at the scene, since he was at the police station about 35 minutes after the shooting. Does anyone know what time GZ was released?

No, I am still waiting for them to leak that one.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

YAY!! I have been waiting for you!! I was talking about USA fleamarket in Miami earlier, but I don't really know what part of Miami it is in? I love that Flea Market, but I don't think it is in a "great" neighborhood?

Naw - that ain't the one you want to go to. We have the Swap Shop up here in Lauderdale. Its at a multi-screen drive in and is known internationally. Even the cruise ships bus passengers out there to shop.

I don't go down to Miami - don't really cross the county line. Can't remember last time I was in Dade county. You can keep it - JMHO.

 

[m00c0w]

Well, we know Trayvon didn't get up, obviously. So that ONLY leaves GZ that the witness could have seen getting up.

And the witness says it was too dark to tell who was where... Multiple times.

 

[LambChop]

Oh, I know I'm legally sound. NWP has zero legal bearing whatsoever. The question is more for those that shun carrying a weapon while "on duty"; I'm trying to figure out when it's okay by them and when it's not.

You are not on duty. Only GZ took upon himself to "be on duty". You see something you think should be reported and you call 911, give them the info they ask for and you are done. That's it. A gun has nothing to do with it. Your eyes and phone are all you are required to use. The gun should never enter into it. jmo

 

[Nore]

gxm: Absolutely true fact but not need in this case as GZ has admitted to shooting TM.

I'm awaiting the FULL autopsy report for a heck of a lot more answers!

-----------
Hi joypath. I think we are all waiting. Good to see you here, you really rock! :toastred: :seeya:

 

[tehcloser]

:sponge:

 

[m00c0w]

He knows darn well the rules of the NWP. If he wants to do that, that's fine, but LEAVE your gun at home while on duty. No One's saying he should give up his gun...

As I've stated before, there is no "on duty" or "off duty" when it comes to an NWP. It's not like Citizens on Patrol. It's a very informal program where you're just agreeing to be extra vigilant and report weird things to the police. You're essentially always "on duty", which is where my question comes from.

 

[iluvmua]

IMO, Richard was received here just fine. Many of us didn't agree with him and debated with him. Richard is an attorney. I think he has thick enough skin to handle us. lol.

What was he saying?