2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[Ripley007]

Trying desperately to find the photos of the trash bag (from TL's garbage can, that was in KC's trunk)) and it's contents ... anybody have any hints as to where I can find these. My searches are not yielding much so far *sigh* Reviewing that list and the pics, could help in this discussion.

TIA,
Sady

IIRC- the LE photos of the itemized contents of "the" garbage bag dumped out onto a table can be found in the very first document dump. On this Caylee site. Under oh crap, drawing a blank. brb.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

More than used for only cleaning her hands after moving her ~ I can imagine she used the wads of paper towels to protect her hands while moving her (much like we use potholders for moving hot dishes/pans). :cry:

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Would it be possible for the adipocere to be present on the trunk liner if she had laid Caylee directly on it --- without bagging her initially? Then later, after Caylee was bagged and dumped, would her attempt at dabbing the stain get the adipocere on the towels??


It blows my mind that KC was dumb enough to use paper towels to deal with decomp (in which ever manner she did it) and then leave them in TL's trash in her car.

I agree with JWG......KC left the bag of trash in her trunk as a "cover" for the smell. Maybe she thought if anyone got into the trunk they would smell the decomp coming from the towels in the trash and say OHHH, that's why your car stinks...you have trash in here!!!!

 

[sadyjade]

Found some of the images I was looking for here ...
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

just wanted to post it, in case others were/are still looking for them. I will also note this thread here at WS
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82500"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82500[/ame]

 

[Dear Prudence]

A couple more bombshells (IMO) from this report that I haven't seen discussed directly in the thread:

1. the LIBS analysis confirms the stain in the trunk is human decomp

2. the PMI based on the stain was determined to be possibly even earlier then previously thought. it's listed in this report as anywhere from 0.7 days to 2.6 days

Regarding the trunk stain and paper towels: is there any way to get DNA from these to provide more proof it was Caylee in the trunk?

Everyone is referring to the paper towels as being in the trash from Tony's apartment. Where is this coming from? I don't see where this is stated. The report states the paper towels are from the trash debris collected from the trunk, nothing about the bag of trash recovered from the dumpster. I think Casey used the paper towels to clean up while bagging and then disposing of Caylee (sometime between 0.7 and 2.6 days but closer to 0.7 IMO) and was so grossed out she just threw the paper towels in the trunk so she could shut the trunk and just push it all out of her mind. Probably didn't think about them again until the smell became overwhelming and that's when she threw a bag of garbage and dryer sheet in there in her feeble attempt at masking the odor.

 

[Valhall]

Would it be possible for the adipocere to be present on the trunk liner if she had laid Caylee directly on it --- without bagging her initially? Then later, after Caylee was bagged and dumped, would her attempt at dabbing the stain get the adipocere on the towels??

*snipped to point*

Yeppers...that would be one way that the adipocere could get on the paper towel from KC cleaning it. I guess she could have gotten all the tissue off the carpet to where it didn't show up in the forensics, but that perplexes me if she did.

Thanks! This is a possibility, indeed.

 

[debbie0604]

I know I will probably never be able to completely lay to rest the theory that the chloroform came from a combination of cleaning supplies, but since we are nearly in our 40th day of rain up here in CT, I thought I'd give it a shot before I hopped on the ark.
:fish:
Let's talk about bleach. :talker: The odor analysis done by the FBI was pretty thorough in identifying every compound found in the trunk's air. :thumb: Setting aside for now the question as to whether or not bleach would alter the carpet or stain coloration ... if KC used bleach on the trunk stain, one would expect that the constituent compounds of bleach would be detected in the trunk air sample.

The compounds are (from Wikipedia):
sodium hypochlorite ... plus ...
hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as:

sodium perborate
sodium percarbonate
sodium persulfate
sodium perphosphate
urea peroxide ... plus ...
​

catalysts and activators, e.g. tetraacetylethylenediamine and/or sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate.

Looking through the list of chemicals found in the trunk air sample on pages 6570 and 6571, not one of the constituent compounds that make household bleach were found.

Acetone and Toluene. Both are common constituents of nail polish remover. They are also both byproducts of human decomposition and were found in the trunk, so their presence does not prove KC tried to use nail polish remover or some other similar solvent on the stain. Less common ingredients, such as Isopropyl Alcohol and Dibutyl Adipate were not found in the trunk air sample.

IMHO, it would not occur to KC to even think :waitasec: of using a solvent on the stain. Bleach made more sense to me ... as does laundry detergent or even Febreeze, neither of which contain the chemicals necessary to create chloroform.

The paper towels. LE's chemical analysis found VFA's consistent with human and pig decomposition, as well as compounds consistent with marijuana. They did not note any compounds consistent with cleaning fluids. The fact that none were mentioned strongly implies to me none were used.

My personal opinion is that KC first got wind of a trunk odor problem when a facefull of decomp smell surprised her as she opened the trunk to put the empty gas cans in it on the 23rd. :sick: She did nothing about it at that time, and on the 24th had to race George to the car to keep him from noticing.

Sometime between the 24th and the 27th, KC decides she needs an odor alibi :idea: and throws a bag of trash from Tony's in the trunk - just in case. She stops by mom & dad's on the 27th to pick up a few things and ... while she's there decided maybe to see if she can do something about that smelly stain.

Now remember, this is KC we are talking about - the grown woman who left smelly slacks in her car and did not bother washing them. :bang: Lazy KC grabs a few paper towels and dabs at the stain. A little comes up, but by this time most of liquid would have dried out. I can almost hear her thinking to herself "hey, it is pretty much dried out. Maybe it will start going away sometime."

So, having completed her hardest work of the week she tossed the paper towels into the bag and headed back to Tony's. :run: Whistling away as she drove :whistle:, she pats herself on the back and texts Amy to tell her that she took care of that squirrel problem.

I agree. I cannot see her trying to clean the car with household products and creating the high levels of chloroform to the extent that were detected by the FBI. The levels were too high to be produced by commercial products. Nor can I see her thinking to herself "hmmm... maybe I'll use acetone and chlorine (inadvertently creating chloroform) to clean up the car to try to get the stains out." That didn't happen either.

I think that she duct taped her mouth and nose with several layers of duct tape, then placed that heart sticker, then placed something in the car that had chloroform that she had created - to sedate and help to suffocate Caylee after placing her in the trunk - and drove around for a few days until Caylee started decomposing. After the smell of decomposition, I think that's when she knew then she had to do something with her body.

But for myself.....in taking away the chloroform... because the toxocology could not prove that Caylee had been chloroformed or drugged because there was no liver, heart, vitreous fluid (eye fluid) nor calverium (brain) present to test for tox levels, I knew that toxicology would be fruitless. So in taking away the toxicology and chloroform, given the objective fact that that baby's mouth and nose were duct taped with several layers of duct tape PROVES TO ME that it was premeditated first degree murder, and a rageful murder at that. I believe that duct tape was placed on the baby's mouth first, and then the heart sticker was placed. What a psycho! KC deserves the death penalty. :furious:

 

[BondJamesBond]

I know I will probably never be able to completely lay to rest the theory that the chloroform came from a combination of cleaning supplies, but since we are nearly in our 40th day of rain up here in CT, I thought I'd give it a shot before I hopped on the ark.
:fish:
Let's talk about bleach. :talker: The odor analysis done by the FBI was pretty thorough in identifying every compound found in the trunk's air. :thumb: Setting aside for now the question as to whether or not bleach would alter the carpet or stain coloration ... if KC used bleach on the trunk stain, one would expect that the constituent compounds of bleach would be detected in the trunk air sample.

The compounds are (from Wikipedia):
sodium hypochlorite ... plus ...
hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as:

sodium perborate
sodium percarbonate
sodium persulfate
sodium perphosphate
urea peroxide ... plus ...
​

catalysts and activators, e.g. tetraacetylethylenediamine and/or sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate.

Looking through the list of chemicals found in the trunk air sample on pages 6570 and 6571, not one of the constituent compounds that make household bleach were found.

Acetone and Toluene. Both are common constituents of nail polish remover. They are also both byproducts of human decomposition and were found in the trunk, so their presence does not prove KC tried to use nail polish remover or some other similar solvent on the stain. Less common ingredients, such as Isopropyl Alcohol and Dibutyl Adipate were not found in the trunk air sample.

IMHO, it would not occur to KC to even think :waitasec: of using a solvent on the stain. Bleach made more sense to me ... as does laundry detergent or even Febreeze, neither of which contain the chemicals necessary to create chloroform.

The paper towels. LE's chemical analysis found VFA's consistent with human and pig decomposition, as well as compounds consistent with marijuana. They did not note any compounds consistent with cleaning fluids. The fact that none were mentioned strongly implies to me none were used.

My personal opinion is that KC first got wind of a trunk odor problem when a facefull of decomp smell surprised her as she opened the trunk to put the empty gas cans in it on the 23rd. :sick: She did nothing about it at that time, and on the 24th had to race George to the car to keep him from noticing.

Sometime between the 24th and the 27th, KC decides she needs an odor alibi :idea: and throws a bag of trash from Tony's in the trunk - just in case. She stops by mom & dad's on the 27th to pick up a few things and ... while she's there decided maybe to see if she can do something about that smelly stain.

Now remember, this is KC we are talking about - the grown woman who left smelly slacks in her car and did not bother washing them. :bang: Lazy KC grabs a few paper towels and dabs at the stain. A little comes up, but by this time most of liquid would have dried out. I can almost hear her thinking to herself "hey, it is pretty much dried out. Maybe it will start going away sometime."

So, having completed her hardest work of the week she tossed the paper towels into the bag and headed back to Tony's. :run: Whistling away as she drove :whistle:, she pats herself on the back and texts Amy to tell her that she took care of that squirrel problem.

Beautiful post, JWG. Couldn't bring myself to snip a word of it.

Had to add that you left out ~33% of Casey's exhaustive effort...IIRC, didn't she toss in some dryer sheets? I mean, c'mon...the girl works hard for the money...so hard for it honey...

 

[cloud9]

If your asking if plain ole everyday Clorox Bleach will stain a trunk liner the answer is yes! Or it bleached the carp out of mine. To this day when I buy bleach, the lid is retwisted at the store, triple bagged and propped up with other stuff so there is no way it can fall over.

VERY true. This is a FACT! One time when my parents went grocery shopping, and bought a bottle of bleach, the lid was a bit loose. By the time they got home, less than a mile away, there was a big stain in the floor carpet. The bleach "bleached out" the color of the carpet.

 

[RR0004]

A couple more bombshells (IMO) from this report that I haven't seen discussed directly in the thread:

1. the LIBS analysis confirms the stain in the trunk is human decomp

2. the PMI based on the stain was determined to be possibly even earlier then previously thought. it's listed in this report as anywhere from 0.7 days to 2.6 days

Regarding the trunk stain and paper towels: is there any way to get DNA from these to provide more proof it was Caylee in the trunk?

Everyone is referring to the paper towels as being in the trash from Tony's apartment. Where is this coming from? I don't see where this is stated. The report states the paper towels are from the trash debris collected from the trunk, nothing about the bag of trash recovered from the dumpster. I think Casey used the paper towels to clean up while bagging and then disposing of Caylee (sometime between 0.7 and 2.6 days but closer to 0.7 IMO) and was so grossed out she just threw the paper towels in the trunk so she could shut the trunk and just push it all out of her mind. Probably didn't think about them again until the smell became overwhelming and that's when she threw a bag of garbage and dryer sheet in there in her feeble attempt at masking the odor.

Thanks...you're psychic! I was just about to ask if reports came back on the stain.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Beautiful post, JWG. Couldn't bring myself to snip a word of it.

Had to add that you left out ~33% of Casey's exhaustive effort...IIRC, didn't she toss in some dryer sheets? I mean, c'mon...the girl works hard for the money...so hard for it honey...

KC expected Alot out of dryer sheets.:loser:

 

[magic-cat]

VERY true. This is a FACT! One time when my parents went grocery shopping, and bought a bottle of bleach, the lid was a bit loose. By the time they got home, less than a mile away, there was a big stain in the floor carpet. The bleach "bleached out" the color of the carpet.

One point we should all consider in this "bleach" discoloring the trunk theory is that most of us, when we are planning to clean using a component such as bleach, will mix it into a bucket of water-thus diluting it. I know I never use straight bleach on anything but whites in the laundry, but I have used diluted bleach in a bucket for a multitude of reasons and with little to no discoloration.

 

[Devon]

A couple more bombshells (IMO) from this report that I haven't seen discussed directly in the thread:

1. the LIBS analysis confirms the stain in the trunk is human decomp

Snipped.

I don't see any statement in the LIBS analysis that says the tests confirm human decomp. It's stated that the results are consistent with a HDE but not conclusive and that other explanations for the compounds found cannot be ruled out. I can't see anything new in this report from when the initial findings were released months ago, apart from the fact that they also utilised a dead squirrel and the results of tests previously done on another dead child in their examinations, plus the results of tests done on the paper towels.

 

[magic-cat]

Interesting to note is that no chloroform was detected in the vehicle where the other child was inside the trunk deceased.

 

[Jolynna]

I don't think I was very clear on the point I was trying to make.

Simply put - the fact that the paper towels that tested + for decomp were discovered in the trash bag from TL's and were found to be in KC's trunk, ties her directly to Caylee's death. Unless one wants to believe that the imaginanny hung out at TL's, too. Doubtful, since no one has every seen her. I don't for one second believe that she was trying to set up TL. He was wayyyy down on her list of friends to implicate. She was just careless and stupid....again.

I agree with you.

TL was not on KC's list to implicate when she was arrested. In her first conversations from jail with her family, KC is desperately trying to get Tony's phone number so she can try to get him back.

I totally agree that the paper towels implicate KC.

No mean kidnapper is going to sneak back to the victim's parent's car to clean up the mess he/she left.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Snipped.

I don't see any statement in the LIBS analysis that says the tests confirm human decomp. It's stated that the results are consistent with a HDE but not conclusive and that other explanations for the compounds found cannot be ruled out. I can't see anything new in this report from when the initial findings were released months ago, apart from the fact that they also utilised a dead squirrel and the results of tests previously done on another dead child in their examinations, plus the results of tests done on the paper towels.

I stated in my first sentence (IMO) which means "in my opinion" but I am sorry as I should have made that more clear. In my opinion, if I was on a jury, I think the LIBS results confirm the stain was from decomp. The statements in the report that convince me of this are as follows at this link:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...l-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

handwritten page # 6559:
"It is interesting to note that every element known to be associated with a decompositional event (that could be detected using this technique) was elevated over control values."

handwritten page # 6560 - 6561
If you are a visual person, the graphs on these pages should help you see that the calcium, magnesium, sodium and iron levels (which are the elements found in human tissue that are found in higher concentrations from drainage as decompositions progresses) are all elevated in the Pontiac's trunk stain versus the control car.

handwritten page # 6566
"Conclusions:
1. LIBS - showing elevated elements typically associated with human decomposition"


Devon, you are right, the report does not state:
the LIBS analysis confirms the stain in the trunk is human decomp, but if you can read this report and think that stain is something other than human decomp, you are a defense attorney's dream juror! Although it is just my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours too. But I don't think I have ever seen a scientific conclusion that states they are 100% positive (basic statistics rules says there is always an error rate). If you are looking for 100% positive conclusion from scientists, then again I say that you are a defense attorney's dream juror.

In the FBI report released months ago, it stated LIBS analysis was going to be performed but no results were available yet. This report has the actual results of the LIBS, so, yes, this is new. The report also has the results of the VFA analysis which has never been released before hence I would call it new. This test is interesting to me because it potentially moves the timeline from 2.6 days decomp in the trunk up to 0.7 days. There was a very long discussion about the 2.6 days so I am surprised this new analysis has not been noticed by anyone yet.

 

[debbie0604]

Here is some interesting reading on adipocere.

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-V1/Adipocere.html

Note that the adipocere happens at the soft tissue region of the corpse and there must be fat. With Caylee being a little baby-fat person, she would have had plenty:



It goes on to explain that the adipose tissue is not what turns into adipocere, but it is the transformation of the adipose tissue during decomposition under certain conditions that taints the surrounding soft tissue and causes the creation of adipocere.

Then note from here...

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-V1/Adipose-Tissue.html

that adipose tissue typically is present in the following areas of the body:



But at the same time, adipocere formation is another data point toward anaerobic decomposition...

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Adipocere

which means that the body had to have been decomposing sans oxygen up to the point it was handled by KC and then the paper towels used. This would go contrary to the idea that Caylee was in the trunk for some period of time "unbagged". OR...it points to KC handling the body more than once after decomposition began (i.e. bagged once???? bagged twice??? etc.)

In this abstract of a research paper on how the method of burial affects the formation of adipocere

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(04)00635-8/abstract

it states that...



This book, Death, decay and deconstruction

http://books.google.com/books?id=zA...GhxLAO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

explicitly states that the body does not need to be submerged in water, as earlier writings had suggested, in order for adipocere to form



There's some other interesting points in this last book



Ringer's solution is defined as

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/504086/Ringers-solution



Which would infer that if body fluids are available, they will promote the formation of adipocere.

But also notable is the following observation



So while anaerobic conditions will promote adipocere formation, they don't appear to be necessary for its formation.

and finally, another point of stating "coverings" will promote adipocere formation:



Now, here's the quandry...

http://books.google.com/books?id=xq...hxLAO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10



The book goes on to sight 6 weeks at the earliest for adipocere formation.

But more recent research has shown

http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS4630609.htm



Now, in reviewing these writings it is found that the combination of fatty tissue (adipose tissue and soft, fatty tissue) in combination with fibrin promotes adipocere formation. Fibrin accessibility is increased at the point of a wound (i.e. fibrin is part of the hemoglobin, clotting aspects of blood). Since high concentrations of chloroform on the skin can produce open sores, the very exposure to chloroform that could have happened on Caylee's face if KC literally saturated something in order to chloroform Caylee could have led to the promotion of early adipocere formation at the cheek area.

But in addition! The formation of adipocere is dependent on the "hydrolysis [i.e. introducing water into the molecular structure] and hydrogenation [i.e. the introduction of hydrogen into the molecular structure] of lipid fats".

From here...

http://books.google.com/books?id=IN...TD0JUP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

we find that using a solvent (i.e. chloroform) facilitates the hydrogenation of fatty acids



In conclusion, I think the formation of adipocere in such a very short time points to the use of chloroform in the area around Caylee's little fatty cheeks.

Thank you so much for this information and being very knowledgable in pathology, I strongly concur. I read a little further on this subject and found a little more info at this website.
http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/adipocere

For instance, the subcutaneous adipose (fatty) tissue of corpses immersed in cold water or kept in plastic bags may undergo a uniform adipocere formation with the superficial layers of skin slipping off.

I guess that explains what was on the paper towel. I sure hope she gets the death penalty.

 

[debbie0604]

I totally respect your feelings and opinions. But personally, I don't find KC "smart" enough to have obtained/made/used choroform. Especially when an innocent fluffy pillow was so darn handy.
As far a pool drowning scenerio, IMHO this was a hastey LIE made up by George and Cindy, the whole Late story about noticing the open gate and ladder on what?...the 18th or so? Whatever!
Would a "normal" mother whose child drowned in a pool due to Mom's neglect in watching her, carry a case against herself THIS far? Guessing NO. But a Sociopath....A sociopath by defination could not admit her own wrong-doing/neglect. However, it's all a mute point. Caylee was killed by her own mother in a Legal 1st Degree manner. No doubt in my mind.

ITA. If KC had "accidentally" killed Caylee, then panicked and duct taped her mouth and nose to make it look like someone else did it and then try to fake a kidnapping, why wait 31 days to report her missing? Why not just go ahead and immediately dump her body and then call 911 herself and notify her parents right away and then manipulate and fake a "freak out scene?"

No I'm with you, this was premeditated first degree all the way. If I was a juror on this case, I wouldn't even have to consider the toxicology or chloroform on this case. I could convict her and send her to the death chamber with the duct tape alone. A mama doesn't duct tape their baby's mouth and nose with multiple layers, place their body in two trash bags, then in a clothes hamper, drive them around in a trunk for about a week while their body is decomposing not saying a word to anyone, lying about where their baby is... and then throw them out in the woods like trash leaving them out in a hurricane to be ravenged... It's just outrageous! All of that in a nutshell could make me put her in the chamber. Forget about the chloroform or whether or not it showed up in the baby's system. Too much other evidence to prove first-degree murder.

 

[RR0004]

Snipped.

I don't see any statement in the LIBS analysis that says the tests confirm human decomp. It's stated that the results are consistent with a HDE but not conclusive and that other explanations for the compounds found cannot be ruled out. I can't see anything new in this report from when the initial findings were released months ago, apart from the fact that they also utilised a dead squirrel and the results of tests previously done on another dead child in their examinations, plus the results of tests done on the paper towels.

I don't remember them ever stating anything about the stain from a forensic standpoint. Can you direct me to a report? I've been waiting for this news forever. I could have missed it. TIA

 

[magic-cat]

We know the hair in the trunk had postmortem damage of some kind. The hair came from a corpse. The corpse was either Cindy, Casey, Caylee, or Cindy's mom...so who was it? It was Caylee-she is the only one missing and later proven to be dead. So why do we have so much trouble accepting that the stain that included every element of a human decomposition in an elevated amount was in fact decomposition?

Of course it was decomposition. The only question really is whose? Well, obviously Caylee's, since the hair that came from a corpse and also came from the trunk came from her head. So the apparent decomp was none other than that of Caylee Anthony.

To me it is so cut and dried on this particular issue. There is not even a reasonable space to doubt in there as far as I can tell. Add to that the witness testimony and all the people who knew and know what human decomp smells like have confirmed that, yes, by the smell, there was a dead body in there, nothing else smells like that. Not one person. Not two people. Many people, including trained professionals and CADAVER DOGS, attest to the fact that there was the scent of a human decomposing coming from that car.

The jury is not going to have as much trouble with this one as we have had between us here. It is cut and dried. There was a dead body. Their was a dead and missing child. One of the hairs from the dead child was in the trunk. The child was in the trunk and dead at the time. The child was Caylee.