2010.07.06 Hank Jr.(Tommy) TRAFFICKING SENTENCING HEARING CONTINUED 08/06/2010

[Whisperer]

This is not personal; not to you, not to anyone posting here. We are discussing the fact that Werter filed with the court, alleging mistreatment by LE and inmates towards Tommy Croslin.

I take exception to people in power (especially those in a jail/prison environment) MISUSING their power; especially if it is in a lawless and sadistic way.

Obviously, we don't know what has gone on, only what Tommy's lawyer has filed on his behalf.

My posts are reflections of my belief that, IF this is happening to Tommy (or anyone in custody) it is WRONG.

I am really surprised that there would be any question or confusion regarding caring for other human beings, despite their flaws. Caring deeply for victims can (and does) go hand-in-hand with caring for all human beings.

This is my OPINION.

Thank you for explaining your opinion and I understand where you are coming from.

Having worked inside a large prison with the worst of inmates, I can say there are good and bad officers, but mostly there are very, very good officers working there. Your concern is noted but may need to be adjusted to start worrying about the guards more than the inmates.

Anyone who feels so strongly that inmates MAY be mistreated has got to walk the walk down a tier of a prison block...where urine and feces (called gassing )are thrown at guards and others on a regularly basis. I tended to draw a line at the "caring for human beings" part. When you get gassed, one would be quickly reminded who is not behaving humanely. It should work both ways....it doesn't. 99% of officers exhibit extreme control...amazing considering the circumstances.

Of couse my opinion is going to be biased and in favor of the officers who put up with way more abuse than an inmate if one cares to talk daily happenings. People are just not aware of what goes on inside and tend to side with the poor inmates who are so mistreated, so they think.

Naturally, we are going to hear about the extreme cases and think that is how it works on the inside but it isn't, at least in California. I wouldn't waste too much energy worrying about tommy and how he is being treated. This is new for TC and frankly I don't think he is mentally tough enough to handle it. He will eventually learn how to cope.

 

[seeking truth]

Thank you for explaining your opinion and I understand where you are coming from.

Having worked inside a large prison with the worst of inmates, I can say there are good and bad officers, but mostly there are very, very good officers working there. Your concern is noted but may need to be adjusted to start worrying about the guards more than the inmates.

Anyone who feels so strongly that inmates MAY be mistreated has got to walk the walk down a tier of a prison block...where urine and feces (called gassing )are thrown at guards and others on a regularly basis.

Of couse my opinion is going to be biased and in favor of the officers who put up with way more abuse than an inmate if one cares to talk daily happenings. People are just not aware of what goes on inside and tend to side with the poor inmates who are so mistreated, so they think.

Naturally, we are going to hear about the extreme cases and think that is how it works on the inside but it isn't, at least in California. I wouldn't waste too much energy worrying about tommy and how he is being treated. This is new for TC and frankly I don't think he is mentally tough enough to handle it. He will eventually.

Good Morning, Whisperer,

Thanks so much for your kind reply. I appreciate you sharing your experiences working inside of a prison.

I care about the guards and I care about the inmates. I don't see this situation as one in which I must make a make a choice between who I care the most for, nor do I see it as a situation that warrants my placing inmates and guards in ascending order of whom I care most about.

I realize this whole discussion is bringing out some very strong feelings and I am sorry to all here who take offense, somehow believing that I would judge anyone (prison guard, LE official, inmate) based on their title, or some ridiculous stereotypical version of who and what a prison guard or an inmate in a jail or prison is truly like, who they truly are. Way too shallow; people are much too complicated to put them in boxes like that, in my opinion.

As in real life, here discussing the HaLeigh Cummings case, I do my best (and fail often) not to judge people based upon my own personal feelings and experiences. I try to view people as human beings, worthy of being cared for. When people mess up (whatever their title) it is then time to figure out how I feel about them, and what I perceive of them and their actions.

If someone is doing something morally, ethically, and/or legally wrong, I find myself being upset at that situation and that person. In no way do I come to a conclusion about what I think based on stereotypes...hopefully we will all have to stand on our own merits (and our own weaknesses and flaws).

Thanks again, Whisperer for sharing your thoughts.

 

[4Jacy]

Please remember: TOMMY CROSLIN said that this happened.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

To aksleuth,

I respect you and your right to your beliefs and opinions. I also enjoy most of your posts. We are all on touchy, emotional ground here, and in no way do I want some type of conflict. In this case, it would be appreciated if you would quote my post that you responded to in it's entirety, so that it is not misconstrued, so that it can be understood within the entire context of what I was trying to express in that post. Obviously some people will disagree, but it needs to be based on the entirety of the thought.

To only respond to this part doesn't even begin to touch on the subject of what Werter has stated in court documents is happening to Tommy Croslin in the Putnam County Jail:

"To place this young man in the general population of his hometown jail is plain wicked."(seeking truth).


The post to which you responded to said this:

"Originally Posted by seeking truth View Post
With all the publicity this case has gotten, the fact that these claims are being made by Tommy, through his attorney, do not surprise me.

I believe the claims, I believe that Tommy is frightened for his life. There are cruel and sadistic people, both in and out of law enforcement. To place this young man in the general population of his hometown jail is plain wicked.

This is my very strong opinion and it saddens me to see that we are not a more advanced and compassionate society."





Thanks, and I hope we can continue posting together, despite our differences.

seeking

To the red bolded part only:

Will do. I was merely attempting to save space.

 

[dodie20]

My oldest high school friend, spent some years in prison, on drug charges, & she has worked real hard to stay clean & sober, & is struggling to have a relationship with her kids, who are now practically grown. They really don't care, because their mom was barely around, & they don't know her. so sad for all of them. My daughter's ex spent a year in the pen, (before they got together), & he swore that he'd never screw up again. He was only 18 & it scared the crud out of him. But he's back on hard drugs, & doesn't give a rat's azz about anything, since my daughter left him. He beat the crud out of her, & left her no choice. What is she supposed to do? risk her life, while trying to save him? He'll wind back up in the pen. They really love each other. so sad for both of them. Actually it's hard on all of us, & I've shed more than a few tears, for that guy, & worry about him all of the time. Drugs destroy all that's good, & I'm praying that he does go back to the pen, so he'll have a chance to not die...the same thing can be said for Tommy. That guy is a hard core druggie & look at all he has lost. Instead of Hank crying, because Tommy's not home, he should be thankful that Tommy's not gonna OD.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I think two of the cases were to be heard today, one is closed and the other is pending. If I am wrong please correct me. :blowkiss:

Actually, no. This one stating CASE CLOSED is already over and done. He's been sentenced and served his time (172 days). He's already been convicted. This was the firearm theft at Mr. Martin's house, I believe, knocked down to a lesser offense of trespass an occupied structure. This guy has so many things going on, it's difficult to keep track. :crazy:


Bold for accent, mine:

originally posted by MADJGNLAW
If I am not mistaken this is the case regarding the gun that was stolen and Lisa said she returned or that Tommy took it. (GRAND THEFT (FIREARM). Looks like the case was already closed.

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE AS TO JUDGMENT AND SENTENCE
UCN: 542009CF001653XXAXMX
File Date: 09/14/2009
Judge: TERRY J LARUE
Case Status: CASE CLOSED http://www.putnam-fl.com/clk_apps/crim_dkts/frame.php


05/13/2010 42 DEFENDANT'S WITNESS LIST

05/14/2010 41 MOTION TO DISMISS

05/17/2010 43 NOTICE TO ATTORNEY (06/21/2010)

05/17/2010 44 NOTICE TO DEFENDANT (06/21/2010) IN JAIL

06/03/2010 45 NOTICE OF HEARING SET ON 06/15/2010 AT 03:30

06/07/2010 46 DEFENDANTS WITHDRAWAL OF WITNESS

06/07/2010 47 AMENDED NOTICE OF HEARING SET ON 06/15/2010 AT 03:30

06/07/2010 48 NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION

06/08/2010 49 NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION

06/15/2010 50 TRIAL MINUTES: DEFT PRESENT, ATT BY JASON LEWIS,

06/15/2010 50 W/D FORMER PLEA, PLED NOLO TO THE LESSER OFFENSE OF

06/15/2010 50 TRESPASS OF OCCUPIED STRUCTURE (F.S. 810.08 2B)

06/15/2010 50 ADVISED OF MAX PENALTY 1 YR PCJ &/OR $1000 FINE

06/15/2010 50 PLEA ACCEPTED, PSI WAIVED, SENTENCING -

06/15/2010 50 DEFENDANT ADJUDGED GUILTY

06/15/2010 50 172 DAYS PCJ WITH 172 DAYS CREDIT

06/15/2010 50 $283 FINE AND COST

06/15/2010 50 $50 COST OF PROSECUTION

06/15/2010 50 $50.00 LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATIVE COST

06/15/2010 50 ALL COSTS ENTERED AS A CIVIL LIEN

06/15/2010 51 FINGERPRINTS OF DEFENDANT

06/15/2010 52 SUBPOENA FOR DEPOSITION RETURNED SERVED:

06/15/2010 52 M J MARTIN

06/21/2010 53 JUDGMENT AND SENTENCE

06/21/2010 54 CHARGES, COSTS, AND FEES ASSOCIATED WITH SENTENCE

06/21/2010 54 RECORDED INST # 20154707974

06/22/2010 55 CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE AS TO JUDGMENT AND SENTENCE

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I'm just glad Tommy didn't break into my house to steal and burglarize it... that is something that I wouldn't be able to get over easily. I'm glad he's behind bars. Tommy's a huge liar-I'm not ready to jump on the hang LE wagon.

Exactly.

To be perfectly honest, if my house were burglarized or my child abducted, Tommy Croslin would certainly not be the person I turned to for help. I'd call my local LE, I want to be sure I still have dish detergent when they left.

 

[BeckyKY]

I doubt seriously that any jail employee will harm Tommy. Why would they take a chance on ruining their career/pension ?
He is in jail because HE broke the law..actually many laws. It is his fault. His alone.
If it is hot in there or the food is bad .. tough ! If he turns Bubba on ... also tough !
Think of those who serve our country and their living conditions / food / safety.
Them I worry about.
Not the Tommy's of this world.
I am so sick of the whining for the rights of those in jail. If they want rights they need to stay out of trouble , stay out of jail , get a job , pay their own bills , and support their own family. IMO , everyone in jail needs to be in general population. Quit making divas out of a select few.

 

[4Jacy]

I doubt seriously that any jail employee will harm Tommy. Why would they take a chance on ruining their career/pension ?
He is in jail because HE broke the law..actually many laws. It is his fault. His alone.
If it is hot in there or the food is bad .. tough ! If he turns Bubba on ... also tough !
Think of those who serve our country and their living conditions / food / safety.
Them I worry about.
Not the Tommy's of this world.
I am so sick of the whining for the rights of those in jail. If they want rights they need to stay out of trouble , stay out of jail , get a job , pay their own bills , and support their own family. IMO , everyone in jail needs to be in general population. Quit making divas out of a select few.

Thank you Becky, for your brilliant post. I couldn't have said it any better. And when compared to the conditions our troop are living, it brings it all home. How dare these morons complain about their treatment, their air quality, their food, their laundry! How dare they! How many lives would they have affected had they continued to sell their drugs, how many more robberies, road rage, rats in mailboxs...and maybe, just maybe, how many more children would go missing.:furious:

 

[seeking truth]

To the red bolded part only:

Will do. I was merely attempting to save space.

Hi, aksleuth, Thanks for your kind reply. I didn't mean to come across so...well, what's the right word? Not sure, but what I have to say isn't so important that I needed 5000 words to explain it.

seeking

 

[seeking truth]

Exactly.

To be perfectly honest, if my house were burglarized or my child abducted, Tommy Croslin would certainly not be the person I turned to for help. I'd call my local LE, I want to be sure I still have dish detergent when they left.

BBM.

:floorlaugh:

 

[KSH352]

Tommy Croslin has implicated himself by his statement that he was there when ???? happened to HaLeigh. It would be kind/nice/honest/descent of Tommy to tell the truth for once. HaLeigh deserves the right to be brought home no matter what. There are 2 families suffering 24/7 for the loss of this child. To never know what happened to her is beyond heartbreaking.

I can understand why PCSO has tried to get Tommy to talk. As I said he put himself there at the mobile home.

We don't know if the claims Tommy made against PCSO are true or not.
For now I will put my trust in the PCSO that they conducted the interview by the law.
At least we will have the answer to that question in the near future.

The more important question isWHERE IS PRECIOUS HALEIGH AND WHAT HAPPED THAT TERRIBLE NIGHT.

 

[StillLurkin]

I doubt seriously that any jail employee will harm Tommy. Why would they take a chance on ruining their career/pension ?
He is in jail because HE broke the law..actually many laws. It is his fault. His alone.
If it is hot in there or the food is bad .. tough ! If he turns Bubba on ... also tough !
Think of those who serve our country and their living conditions / food / safety.
Them I worry about.
Not the Tommy's of this world.
I am so sick of the whining for the rights of those in jail. If they want rights they need to stay out of trouble , stay out of jail , get a job , pay their own bills , and support their own family. IMO , everyone in jail needs to be in general population. Quit making divas out of a select few.

Thank you very much, you took the words right out of my mouth, Thank you!!

 

[TxLady2]

One correction to make and I don't remember who posted it, but Satsuma is not Tommy's actual hometown. They moved there from somewhere in Michigan.

I don't agree that anyone should have their civil rights tramped on or violated. I agree that I don't want my home broken into by someone looking to steal something more precious from me than any material item. My peace of mind and my feeling of being safe and secure in my home.

But again, I don't believe that this gives anyone in LE the right to violate someone's civil rights and the protection that they are afforded under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

If you knew what some correctional officers have to put up with in both jail and prison, you might be surprised. They get spit on, have feces and urine thrown at them, they're cursed and threatened, the women are groped and inmates expose themselves to them, plus a whole lot of other things we never hear about. I would bet that there are far more GOOD correctional officers than bad ones, or ones who "trample on someone's civil rights."
I'm sick of defense lawyers demanding their clients' civil rights were violated. They're in PRISON... not a four-star hotel. They broke the law, they need to be punished.

 

[Missingmeds]

If you knew what some correctional officers have to put up with in both jail and prison, you might be surprised. They get spit on, have feces and urine thrown at them, they're cursed and threatened, the women are groped and inmates expose themselves to them, plus a whole lot of other things we never hear about. I would bet that there are far more GOOD correctional officers than bad ones, or ones who "trample on someone's civil rights."
I'm sick of defense lawyers demanding their clients' civil rights were violated. They're in PRISON... not a four-star hotel. They broke the law, they need to be punished.

You are making assumptions that you really shouldn't. I know what prisoners are capable of only too well. But and this is a big but, Tommy Croslin is not in a prison, he is in a County Jail. He has not been neither charged with nor convicted of anything to do with Haleigh.

If he is lying, then all PCSO has to do is to play the video of the interrogation.

It was not an interview because in an interview one always has the right to walk out.

But with PCSO not releasing the video, and stating that they did their own internal investigation of what happened I am highly suspicious of what they are stating as fact. I know that I posted the article and the statement by Rick Ryan of PCSO on one of these threads.

I have seen what happens when prisoners get the best of the guards and I have seen what happens when the police overstep their boundaries. Personally I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either.

But I do believe that we all have civil rights and if PCSO or anyone else for that matter violated Tommy Croslin's civil rights, then they need to stand up and take responsibility for what they did and they need to suffer the consequences of their actions as well.

 

[dodie20]

Thank you Becky, for your brilliant post. I couldn't have said it any better. And when compared to the conditions our troop are living, it brings it all home. How dare these morons complain about their treatment, their air quality, their food, their laundry! How dare they! How many lives would they have affected had they continued to sell their drugs, how many more robberies, road rage, rats in mailboxs...and maybe, just maybe, how many more children would go missing.:furious:

& as long as they're locked up, there won't be anymore pregnancies. or at least the odds go waaaay down. I'm sorry, but these people have procreated enough. & that includes Misty.

 

[Missingmeds]

& as long as they're locked up, there won't be anymore pregnancies. or at least the odds go waaaay down. I'm sorry, but these people have procreated enough. & that includes Misty.

I can't tell you how much I agree with your post on this issue. Several times people have brought up the could Misty be pregnant question. I don't believe that she is and that is a very good thing.

 

[Whisperer]

I'm beginning to think that tommy was moved to Putnam so LE could talk with him and he wanted to talk with them. I think he agreed to go. The Court postponed his sentencing for an entire month, unusual. LE is getting all their ducks in a row and they better keep them lined up. There is more to this move and postponment than meets the eye...imo.

rc and misty are holding out.....funny how that happened. The only thing any of them can bargain with is spilling the beans about Haleigh...and yet we have nothing. Tommy is talking, I bet.

Didn't LE get any evidence from the MH? :banghead:

 

[KSH352]

You are making assumptions that you really shouldn't. I know what prisoners are capable of only too well. But and this is a big but, Tommy Croslin is not in a prison, he is in a County Jail. He has not been neither charged with nor convicted of anything to do with Haleigh.

If he is lying, then all PCSO has to do is to play the video of the interrogation.

It was not an interview because in an interview one always has the right to walk out.

But with PCSO not releasing the video, and stating that they did their own internal investigation of what happened I am highly suspicious of what they are stating as fact. I know that I posted the article and the statement by Rick Ryan of PCSO on one of these threads.

I have seen what happens when prisoners get the best of the guards and I have seen what happens when the police overstep their boundaries. Personally I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either.

But I do believe that we all have civil rights and if PCSO or anyone else for that matter violated Tommy Croslin's civil rights, then they need to stand up and take responsibility for what they did and they need to suffer the consequences of their actions as well.

I would appreciate a link to this information that you stated above. I bolded the section I am speaking of.

Thanks

 

[suspicious1]

I'm beginning to think that tommy was moved to Putnam so LE could talk with him and he wanted to talk with them. I think he agreed to go. The Court postponed his sentencing for an entire month, unusual. LE is getting all their ducks in a row and they better keep them lined up. There is more to this move and postponment than meets the eye...imo.

rc and misty are holding out.....funny how that happened. The only thing any of them can bargain with is spilling the beans about Haleigh...and yet we have nothing. Tommy is talking, I bet.

Didn't LE get any evidence from the MH? :banghead:

ITA agree with you. There is something big going on behind closed doors. JMO though