2010.10.29 Status Hearing

[Gnatcatcher]

Somebody way up thread (I kept reading, should have responded at the time I saw it, sorry) said that they hadn't heard Caylee's name ONCE throughout the entire thing. I was too struck by this.

I apologize again, because i have a heck of a time pulling up WFTV's videos (old and new) on my dinosaur computer, so it'll be several hours before I can get to see the hearing again, but two things that struck me when I saw it live:

1) JP didn't say "caylee" but he did say "the victim" as the camera was at a side angle on her face, she did not budge, she blinked, but in a normal fashion, there was no expression.

2) When JP said "May is coming up pretty quickly", THAT is when she reacted, but her reaction was almost slightly one of "gee I can't wait". She sort of changed her posture and took in a breath, but not in a scared way, more in an excited way. I really have to see it again to see if what I thought at the time was so.

 

[ZsaZsa]

O/T kinda
The TV on the desk in front of Casey..looks like she can see her parents behind her on TV

I noticed that- what is the purpose of having that? Is it always there, or just for HRH Princess Casey?

 

[BChand]

I noticed that- what is the purpose of having that? Is it always there, or just for HRH Princess Casey?

I think it's always there ZsaZsa. This is supposedly a very hi-tech courtroom.

The one reason I can think of is that the attorneys only see the back of the person speaking to the judge/witness. With the tv there, they get to see if from a different angle?

 

[ThinkTank]

BBM

AF is going as far back as ICA's birth in Ohio,maybe even further. She is going to be delving deeply into the family dynamics to try and save ICA's life. GA and CA will be served up on a platter for the entire world to see. Even after every horrible thing about this family is exposed , ICA may still get the death penalty.
The very fact that the penalty phase is being is being discussed in court ,as though it is a foregone conclusion, must be difficult for CA to hear.
She has risked her own reputation and possibly her own freedom (if she should be charged ) in order to save ICA. It was all for nothing and i think she realizes that now. She sees the bus that is headed in her direction and knows she is about to get run over. She put herself in it's path for that ungrateful child.
I have not a spot of sympathy for her as she is still denying Caylee justice,love and concern.
Just an aside,looking at GA and CA in the video ,they have the same mouth. Kind of freaky.

In the Status Hearing this is what AF said she need research in Ohio for....
Status Hearing Oct 29, 2010
AF - I asked for travel exp for mit expert or one inv to travel to Ohio, Warren, Ms Anthony birth, lived for a while as a child (3 yrs)
Judge - what age - what hope to get there?
Finnell- family dynamics, birth records, medical records, childhood trauma

In the discovery with all the letters that people wrote to Inmate Anthony, there are several letters from her "Aunt Kathy" in Ohio. She is George's sister. There is Kathy, her husband, her daughter, her son in Ohio now. Kathy's husband is in the auto dealership business. Maybe George's sister can testify to George's anger issues with his father? Maybe it is the family dynamics of ANGER that Inmate Anthony was raised with by Daddy George, they are looking for to provide a mitigating factor not to give the Inmate the death penalty.
George's sister, Ruth, and her husband are also in Ohio, , or were in Ohio ... may now be in SC

 

[AlwaysShocked]

RE: Ineffective counsel
This is exactly what Judge Perry is making it his business to prevent. And basically, I don't think the personalities, quirks, or twitches of the defense attorneys play into "ineffective counsel". I think it is more a legal term that has to do with motions not being filed, etc.

But I agree, Baez with his shrugging and bumbling manner and Cheney being nigh onto not even understandable are not going to be very "effective" with a jury.

Baez has an extremely poor courtroom presence, but to me seems at least to be "sincere". A sincere putz. Cheney - well I just can't seem to get a grip on him. Obviously at one time he was well respected in the courtroom. But so far in this case he has come off as arrogant, haughty, *****y/whiny, and somewhat flustered At one hearing he was pawing through his paperwork looking for a citation and mumbling words to the effect of "I know I saw it here somewhere". Sheesh!

And now Cheney has the judge in a major case admonishing him that he needs to "get on it in filing" a very important motion - the Frye hearing motion. To me, this is extremely telling.

I can't wait to hear Richard Hornsby's take on today's hearing. And I do realize that a younger attorney would likely hesitate to publicly criticize a respected older, retired attorney who comes out of retiredment to work a pro bono case. I expect Hornsby to be.....measured.... in his comments about Cheney.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

What is so sad about this whole crime, IMO, when she gets convicted, it will be tossed out per "Ineffective Counsel" and then we get to start all over again.

We have (IMO) witnessed Baez and Cheney and feel they are bumbling idiots, (OR ARE TRYING TO APPEAR THAT WAY)..........Can you imagine starting over from scratch? It does appear to me that ICA has had a reality check...Lawyers and experts dropping like flies..........I hate to say it, but I will anyway......She has had ineffective counsel. MOO

I am extremely confident that this won't happen, not on Judge Perry's watch. His record speaks for itself, and he isn't a n00b at this. HHJP, in all of his years on the bench, has only had "1/2" of a case overturned on appeal, and that's an awesome record considering the cases he has presided over.

This may not be a 'popular' statement here, but even though Baez appears to be "ineffective counsel" to the layman, in a legal sense, he's far from it when it comes to the legal guidelines of what constitutes the true sense of the term.

Baez also isn't the sole Attorney on her case, there is also a very qualified, DP Attorney, (whom we can't understand), Mason.

Aside from that, which is plenty enough on its own, Casey's odds of winning an appeal based on ineffective counsel also diminishes if she doesn't get Death during Penalty phase. Death will always grant you that appeal - not so much if she only gets LWOP, which I'm fairly certain she'll receive.

Try not to worry, Judge Perry has this under control!

 

[SailorMoon]

Where is the hearing video??? I must be losing it because I don't see. Sounds like is a must see...and I have some time today. Anything but housework. Thanks.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Where is the hearing video??? I must be losing it because I don't see. Sounds like is a must see...and I have some time today. Anything but housework. Thanks.

Part 1: http://www.wftv.com/video/25566372/index.html

Part 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/25567059/index.html

Part 3: http://www.wftv.com/video/25567604/index.html

Part 4 of 4: http://www.wftv.com/video/25568340/index.html

 

[SailorMoon]

Thanks Dignity!! And away I go....

 

[sumbunny]

While watching Baez talk about getting the body farm depositions transcribed, it seemed to me that there was some discord between CM and JB..

Even while CM was talking to the Judge about the frye hearing motion, JB was sitting there with the weirdest look on his face.

I sense tension between CM and JB.

 

[kaRN]

BBM

AF is going as far back as ICA's birth in Ohio,maybe even further. She is going to be delving deeply into the family dynamics to try and save ICA's life. GA and CA will be served up on a platter for the entire world to see. Even after every horrible thing about this family is exposed , ICA may still get the death penalty.
The very fact that the penalty phase is being is being discussed in court ,as though it is a foregone conclusion, must be difficult for CA to hear.
She has risked her own reputation and possibly her own freedom (if she should be charged ) in order to save ICA. It was all for nothing and i think she realizes that now. She sees the bus that is headed in her direction and knows she is about to get run over. She put herself in it's path for that ungrateful child.
I have not a spot of sympathy for her as she is still denying Caylee justice,love and concern.
Just an aside,looking at GA and CA in the video ,they have the same mouth. Kind of freaky.

Re Bolded by me- Weird synchronicity. As I was reading your post my son interupted me to tell me he had read that older couples grow to look alike and that studies had concurred that happens because they endure the same stressors, smile at the same times, cry, eat the same diet, etc etc. I'll have to check what you noticed out lol!

 

[kaRN]

I noticed that- what is the purpose of having that? Is it always there, or just for HRH Princess Casey?

IIRC there was some concern raised by the defense at the onset, that the media could see or was trying to see what they were writing so the monitors were placed there.

 

[ZsaZsa]

RE: Ineffective counsel
This is exactly what Judge Perry is making it his business to prevent. And basically, I don't think the personalities, quirks, or twitches of the defense attorneys play into "ineffective counsel". I think it is more a legal term that has to do with motions not being filed, etc.

But I agree, Baez with his shrugging and bumbling manner and Cheney being nigh onto not even understandable are not going to be very "effective" with a jury.

Baez has an extremely poor courtroom presence, but to me seems at least to be "sincere". A sincere putz. Cheney - well I just can't seem to get a grip on him. Obviously at one time he was well respected in the courtroom. But so far in this case he has come off as arrogant, haughty, *****y/whiny, and somewhat flustered At one hearing he was pawing through his paperwork looking for a citation and mumbling words to the effect of "I know I saw it here somewhere". Sheesh!

And now Cheney has the judge in a major case admonishing him that he needs to "get on it in filing" a very important motion - the Frye hearing motion. To me, this is extremely telling.

I can't wait to hear Richard Hornsby's take on today's hearing. And I do realize that a younger attorney would likely hesitate to publicly criticize a respected older, retired attorney who comes out of retiredment to work a pro bono case. I expect Hornsby to be.....measured.... in his comments about Cheney.

I presume RH will be diplomatic in his comments re Mason, since he has established a reputation in the Orlando area over theyears , but I think those days have gone- he is in the Over-the-Hill- gang now.... someone needs to take him aside and kindly talk to him about his pretty unintelligible speech and fumbling for information..

 

[Dignity4Victims]

I'm surprised Honorable Perry hasn't mandated that all persons go to the podium. Many judge's make this a standing rule in their Courtroom.

I am too, as well as enforcing other standard courtroom rules, but I'm attributing that to the fact that this case has dragged on so painfully long that HHJP is just focusing on the matters at hand during Hearings so as to finally move things along, but will bring the hammer down in more detail during the trial.

I've seen Judges be far more lenient during Hearings who aren't nearly as forgiving during the trial.

 

[Gma Kat]

I think it's always there ZsaZsa. This is supposedly a very hi-tech courtroom.

The one reason I can think of is that the attorneys only see the back of the person speaking to the judge/witness. With the tv there, they get to see if from a different angle?

Another benefit to the monitor is that all counsel and ICA can now see what the public is actually viewing. I recall early in the case that the camera zoomed in the JB and ICA's yellow legal pads they were writing on. If the camera is zoomed in on ICA she can try and refrain from making certain expressions or gestures.....seems to be a great tool for the defense if they are smart enough to use it that way.

 

[logicalgirl]

I presume RH will be diplomatic in his comments re Mason, since he has established a reputation in the Orlando area over theyears , but I think those days have gone- he is in the Over-the-Hill- gang now.... someone needs to take him aside and kindly talk to him about his pretty unintelligible speech and fumbling for information..

Speaking of kind comments, or in this case "not", be sure to read Bill Schaeffer's column which Nums24 has recently posted in Today's News. After completely strafing Linda B., :viking: he has this to say about the Defense team:

Which begs the question, is anyone on the present defense team capable? Well, no, not actually. :floorlaugh: And although that may not be terribly troubling to the majority at first blush, it is to those who have spent their legal careers promoting the ends of justice. In the end, our criminal justice system usually works, whether by man’s endeavors or by divine intervention. But it pains one to see a conviction had because of avarice, self promotion or ineptitude by lawyers entrusted with the obligation and responsibility to vigorously and energetically defend those individuals who, in our minds, are the least worthy. Because in our system of justice, justice for all, is defined by justice afforded to the least deserving of us.

Interesting, eh? Apparently Bill S. and Mason don't belong to the same "good ole boys" club. :trout:

However, please note - he isn't talking about ineffective counsel - because even to the Bar, a complete duffer can get past the ineffective counsel rules, as long as they mount a defense of some kind. And this appears to be written without consideration to Ann Finnell.

 

[mysteriew]

RE: Ineffective counsel
This is exactly what Judge Perry is making it his business to prevent. And basically, I don't think the personalities, quirks, or twitches of the defense attorneys play into "ineffective counsel". I think it is more a legal term that has to do with motions not being filed, etc.

But I agree, Baez with his shrugging and bumbling manner and Cheney being nigh onto not even understandable are not going to be very "effective" with a jury.

Baez has an extremely poor courtroom presence, but to me seems at least to be "sincere". A sincere putz. Cheney - well I just can't seem to get a grip on him. Obviously at one time he was well respected in the courtroom. But so far in this case he has come off as arrogant, haughty, *****y/whiny, and somewhat flustered At one hearing he was pawing through his paperwork looking for a citation and mumbling words to the effect of "I know I saw it here somewhere". Sheesh!

And now Cheney has the judge in a major case admonishing him that he needs to "get on it in filing" a very important motion - the Frye hearing motion. To me, this is extremely telling.

I can't wait to hear Richard Hornsby's take on today's hearing. And I do realize that a younger attorney would likely hesitate to publicly criticize a respected older, retired attorney who comes out of retiredment to work a pro bono case. I expect Hornsby to be.....measured.... in his comments about Cheney.

Yeah, I worry about an appeal in this case. With the judge appearing to have to "tell" the defense of appeals, motions, and other things they need to do. And them complaining in court about not getting evidence that they have either already gotten or that has been available and they haven't bothered to pick up.

I do worry about successful appeals over ineffective counsel.

 

[Gma Kat]

In the Status Hearing this is what AF said she need research in Ohio for....
Status Hearing Oct 29, 2010
AF - I asked for travel exp for mit expert or one inv to travel to Ohio, Warren, Ms Anthony birth, lived for a while as a child (3 yrs)
Judge - what age - what hope to get there?
Finnell- family dynamics, birth records, medical records, childhood trauma

In the discovery with all the letters that people wrote to Inmate Anthony, there are several letters from her "Aunt Kathy" in Ohio. She is George's sister. There is Kathy, her husband, her daughter, her son in Ohio now. Kathy's husband is in the auto dealership business. Maybe George's sister can testify to George's anger issues with his father? Maybe it is the family dynamics of ANGER that Inmate Anthony was raised with by Daddy George, they are looking for to provide a mitigating factor not to give the Inmate the death penalty.
George's sister, Ruth, and her husband are also in Ohio, , or were in Ohio ... may now be in SC

IIRC in one of their many interviews or during questioning by LE, either GA or CA mentioned that GA had a sister with "issues" and they feared KC was just like her. I hope I'm not confused about this...........your post jolted it out of my cobwebby mind......I also read the book about this case and sometimes insert the author's research and theories into my memory of actual facts......

 

[denjet]

Wasn't this too pertaining to the 'Fry Hearing' stuff that has not been filed. Defense complaining about not knowing about these FBI interviews; come to find out, the state had given them a disk with all the video, transcripts etc. And CM/JB upset because it wasn't 'paper' documentation. That is when JP said to give him the disk and he would have it transcribe at a lesser cost for them........

Whew -- when will everyone stop doing their work for them??????? And JB closing out the hearing by telling JP how diligently they have been working on everything!! Is he just now finding out that he might have bit off more than they can chew??? LOL.

Exactly!!!

We are talking about 20 years ago and up to age 3? It is more important to learn about ICA's teenage years, family life, school life, 'work life', etc.

The recollection of folks in Ohio from 20 years ago about ICA up to age 3 pales in comparison.

WTH?

I may be way off, but, I think Finnell wants to delve into family dynamics ... interaction with the rest of their family, employers, the rest of the community etc. ... maybe even George's violent temper, George's financial irresponsibility and causing the A's to lose their home ... what his record was when working for the sheriff's office ... IMO it's to find fault with the parents and digging up their pasts ...

 

[Frigga]

Yes, I remember that too. Wasn't it insinuated that she (George's sister) was Bipolar or something? Maybe even outright stated by either George or Cindy?