2011.06.04 Sidebar Day Ten [MERGED]

[gngr~snap]

**ETA* oops~ just saw warning

It's been so long! Does anyone remember LA. having a pic on MySpace or photo bucket of a Guy with duct tape on his head? I know the movie "Untraceable" did.
Since she spent the entire next day in bed with.
TL she would have had to put it on the 16th. I don't want to think she put it on Caylee while alive, but I think she did and Dr G may very well have proof that she did.
It's creepy that duct tape on a face was a theme surrounding ICA back then.

 

[ynotdivein]

While we're somewhat on the subject about making this a better experience for everyone, any idea why the margins keep getting blown out? I've ended up skipping pages of posts because it is so irritating to have to scroll back and forth to read. Thanks in advance.

ETA: Like this page is now blown out for me. Is it just me having this problem?

Hi Lanie, the margins get blown if we post pictures that are too big. When a poster or mod removes the post, the next time you refresh the pages go back to normal.

It's not your computer playing tricks on you!

 

[strawberry]

As a health inspector I can say that we distinguish between "garbage" and "refuse". Garbage specifically has "animal or vegetable offal (ie organic matter)" in it. Refuse is simply solid waste, junk. So maybe DT prefers the word garbage because it implies there is something besides boxes and containers in there?

 

[gitana1]

Yes - the one in the trunk had the band - the hair(s) on the tape did not

As USARDOG said in the thread - tape went on when she was alive - and that's M U R D E R 1

I'm watching some of the jail tapes from yesterday (had to work!) and I was happy to see casey discuss her family's personalities in detail - how she and her mother are the loud ones while GA is quiet, reserved, processes things thoroughly before having a reaction or saying anything. It shows why he didn't freak out audibly during the 911 calls and was calmer overall.

That belies the DT theory that he didn't react as strongly as CA because he knew what had happened. I forgot a lot of the things that were in these tapes and seeing them again in context is great!!!

 

[Lanie]

If the goal was to duct tape her to keep her quiet, why would someone cover the nose too? Only to smother her, I believe. Maybe she chloroformed her and realized how easy it would be to apply the tape and end it all right then and there. Maybe no rage involved, just a methodical step in a process.

Sorry, I should have been more detailed.
I think, moo, all that, ICA wanted to get rid
of Caylee, I think she deliberately smothered
her to death.

My main point was I don't believe the duct
tape was applied to Caylee after she died.
IMO, it was the cause of death, I just have
several theories on why ICA went that route
vs. holding a pillow over her face or choking her out.

 

[Blue Ridge]

Dr G stated that the tape was applied pre-decomposition....

Yes. And I personally just can't think of any logical reason someone would duct tape the mouth and nose (only) of a dead body. Fluids leaking? No. I imagine fluids would leak from every possible orifice, and perhaps other places as well (as the skin desintigrates, sorry I know it's graphic). Taping the nose and mouth only, indicates only one thing to me....which is stopping someone from breathing.

 

[ohiogirl]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28130329/detail.html

The hair expert is quoted as saying that she is not 100% sure that the death banded hear is from a dead person.
I thought I heard all of her testimony. Did she say that?

 

[SallyC]

What truck? Oh, wait maybe you meant trunk.

LOL that’s what I meant, I’m making many mistakes today.

 

[21merc7]

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1eypXuLsh5uatd0yhKQPIBl3_qCYIw5K-bc0q2jEVkHo&hl=en
STATE WITNESS LIST

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1SJuT6ZnZa_DMbH7rK5QXMFWMCG9xV7KVoIjLLRZfg_E&hl=en
DEFENSE WITNESS LIST

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t1IKoWtQFXbILJ9pVMwT-c0dXhXOtFw-u5N2jfvVJM0/edit?hl=en
DEFENSE PENALTY PHASE WITNESS LIST

Thank you so much!

I see there are still a lot of witnesses listed that have not appeared. Some that we know will not. How on earth does the State think they will wrap up by the 17th? Or were they just being facetious?

 

[Leila]

My husband worked at a hotel years ago that housed a sequestered jury. When they went to eat, they would reserve the restaurant's party room (or whatever you call it) for the jury. When he would have to go into a juror's room, a deputy would accompany him for the duration of his "visit" into the juror's room.

He basically said they were guarded 24/7 and situations and places prepared well in advance for their visits.

This long sequestration has to be rough for the jurors. There's only so much television and reading a person can do. I'm sure there's other activities such as doing crossword puzzles, or other such activities, but after a while that gets old too. I hope the jurors are allowed to take walks outside, weather permitting.

The jurors are a group, and I hope they're allowed as much interaction with each other as they want, as long as they don't discuss the case. Perhaps they can engage in card games? Or at least have casual conversations with each other. Perhaps there's some mutual interests.

HHBP has mentioned special activities he's planned for the jurors. I would imagine he's planned some sort of group outings to the local attractions. I guess Universal Studios would be out because it's a component of this case, but I understand there's a lot of other attractions locally.

 

[mck16]

LOL that’s what I meant, I’m making many mistakes today.

Join the crowd. It seems to be one of those days. lol

 

[Blue Ridge]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28130329/detail.html

The hair expert is quoted as saying that she is not 100% sure that the death banded hear is from a dead person.
I thought I heard all of her testimony. Did she say that?

She did. IIRC it was the answer to one of the very last questions she was asked.

 

[Friday]

Well that was the worst I've ever seen Baez and I've seen ever hearing more times than I care to admit. Something really rattled him - did he think he had a shot of keeping Ms Lowe from testifying as an expert? Weird.

Also, I've noticed the defense team is looking more shaky and disorganised as the days go on. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Sims, I don't know when she realised what a joke this was but I could feel her pain today when she forcefully expelled air from her mouth in a moment of disgust/frustration at the last thing Mason said. If it is included in wftv vids everyone should take a look - quite telling. I feel your pain Dot.

I have oddly conflicting feelings about Ms. Sims--

Even though she's a defense attorney, and even though she's on KC's side, there's something about her appearance that makes her seem likeable and genuine to me. Her soft voice is almost soothing, and yet when she speaks for more than a minute, that same soft monotone becomes as excruciatingly noxious as the sound of fingernails scraping a chalkboard.

 

[Lera213]

Skin cells would=dna, there was none. When Dr. G stated the tape was placed before decomposition I believe she simply means while there was flesh to adhere to. She also has the placement, size and tightness so to speak to base those theories on. We know she cut the tape from the hair and the tape was placed tightly enough to hold the mandible to the skull after decomposition. Even laying in all that water and essentially rotting, drying, insects, etc. it remained in place.

Yes it has to be just the way Dr. G will describe exactly the length of the tape, the length of Caylee's face, and be able to put it together as to proving it was placed before death, but I don't know maybe regimortis(sp?) would also prove that the tape wouldn't fit after death?

the only thing I know the FBI took from the tape was hair and fiber. I suppose they might have found fiber evidence that isn't the backing of the tape but rather the car?

 

[ZsaZsa]

Yes. And I personally just can't think of any logical reason someone would duct tape the mouth and nose (only) of a dead body. Fluids leaking? No. I imagine fluids would leak from every possible orifice, and perhaps other places as well (as the skin desintigrates, sorry I know it's graphic). Taping the nose and mouth only, indicates only one thing to me....which is stopping someone from breathing.

Yes, there is already a case on record in Florida where someone tried to use that rationale for claiming duct tape was used after death and the Court said it was an unacceptable reason. Defied logic and reason.
I believe it was Fla vs Huck IIRC.

 

[mck16]

She did. IIRC it was the answer to one of the very last questions she was asked.

But she also had an explanation for her answer that I will not try to repeat. However it was sufficient for me. Maybe someone else can relay her complete response. tia

 

[faefrost]

Yes. And I personally just can't think of any logical reason someone would duct tape the mouth and nose (only) of a dead body. Fluids leaking? No. I imagine fluids would leak from every possible orifice, and perhaps other places as well (as the skin desintigrates, sorry I know it's graphic). Taping the nose and mouth only, indicates only one thing to me....which is stopping someone from breathing.

The only possible after death duct tape scenario I can see would have been to stage a fake kidnapping. You know, like in that "Nanny kidnapped my kid" episode of One Tree Hill she watched, or those assorted kidnap movies she was renting?

The defense might (emphasis MIGHT, just barely) have had a valid defense to at least pull off getting her convicted on lesser charges if JB had aimed lower and simpler. Claim an accidental death, KC panicked was afraid of her family and attempted to make it look like a kidnapping. But JB destroyed any chance of that being believable when he dragged George and Roy Kronk into his wild story. At that point it became obvious that it was all just another of his lying clients horrible lies. A good lawyer, like a good liar knows when to keep it simple and let the listener fill in the blanks themselves. JB and KC really are neither. JB doesn't seem to know how to let evidence or its absense tell its own story.

 

[momshrink]

Since we're on the subject of hair, does anyone know why in one of the first video's CA was asking ICA about when the last time she cut Caylee's hair was and when the last time was that she had cut or colored her own hair? :waitasec:

IIRC, a hairdresser came forward saying she observed a bruise on Caylee when ICA and Caylee were in her salon - I think she said ICA was getting her hair done and Caylee was with her - so salons have tv or toys for kids while parents get their hair done. I don't know if this person was considered credible, though, but at that time Caylee was missing and the charge of neglect was entered.

 

[ZsaZsa]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28130329/detail.html

The hair expert is quoted as saying that she is not 100% sure that the death banded hear is from a dead person.
I thought I heard all of her testimony. Did she say that?

She sort of said that. They never say anything is 100% certain all of the time, as a matter of policy, but she did say that the death banding has never been shown in any other circumstance than death.....

 

[mck16]

She sort of said that. They never say anything is 100% certain all of the time, as a matter of policy, but she did say that the death banding has never been shown in any other circumstance than death.....

That is exactly what I thought she said, but didn't want to repeat it not being sure. ty