2011.06.13 Sidebar (Trial Day Seventeen)

[cluciano63]

Ok but died how? I'm sticking with Dr. G's 100% of the times when it is an accident, it is reported as an accident.
Going with your post, hypothetically, if it was an accident and the duct tape was put on immediately after Caylee died to set it up to look like a kidnapping, seems like a lot of detail for it not to be premeditated. (taking into account the duct tape with fringe hairs that could be attributed to the tape being wrapped around Caylee's wrists) (and if she loved Caylee as much as the Defense is saying, while she is thinking how to make it look like a kidnapping she is hysterical and crying and trying to revive Caylee.

Well, partly, I am not buying that she loved Caylee all that much; she loved the reflected glory of looking like a good mother. And regardless of most people calling 911, this is Casey Anthony, clearly NOTHING normal about her, which I gathered from the trial alone. So I am just not sure it wouldn't have seemed like a good idea to her to use tape, etc... I don't see her calling 911 for anything unless someone else was with her when Caylee died whom she could put most of the blame on. So I do think she was alone when it happened.

 

[biggirl]

I do not think my blood pressure can handle watching the dt's presentation live. I will just have to follow along here on WS. I get upset even thinking about what the "unusual attorneys" might try to pull. I know JA and team are perfectly capable of handling anything, but I just get too upset. Soon I hope JB's smirk will be a distant memory, but Caylee is forever.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana,

what do you think of the SA resting so soon??? What do you think about rebuttal case here?

thanks

I think they have presented a pretty solid, damning case. I'm betting on either a hung jury if we have some wild cards on the jury or 1st degree murder. I don't see a lesser included offense at this stage and I don't see not guilty.

What I would like to see and what they have not presented is testimony from TL that he would not allow Caylee to spend the night or hang out there at night, and expressed to casey that he didn't want kids, especially girl children, and the evidence that casey erased hundreds of photos of Caylee around the time she killed her.

The tattoo evidence could be interpreted either way at this stage so I don't know if it is that important.

To me, that's all that's missing except the Myspace message from Cindy which I felt was very powerful when read, but not so much via testimony, but that has been ruled inadmissible. In any event, right now, I feel they have a enough. It is not good strategy, IMO to present one's case during rebuttal so i feel all the necessary evidence has already been presented. The rest is just icing on the cake.

I like the case the state presented and feel pretty confident right about now.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Dunno but we can be sure it will be dramatic and with a theatrical flair. Oh Lord, I gotta go buy a case of Tylenol, super strength. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I bet we all have bought enough Tylenol to make their stock raise 50%! Maybe the SA should ask if JB was paid for increasing their stock?LMBO:floorlaugh:

 

[MissJames]

I am still not convinced either that the duct tape came BEFORE Caylee's death...in fact, I wrote this earlier in the week and am just putting the theory out there again...
Has anyone else considered that maybe Casey's "sickness" was real---because she realized after hearing the testimony that the child who she had accidentally drugged and thought she had killed had actually STILL BEEN ALIVE when she wrapped that duct tape around her little head?? and ... Just think, if it were an accident (meaning she meant to knock her out with chlorAform, not kill her) and that when she could not wake her, mistakenly thought she was dead, and then in part of her hurried frantic attempt at covering up her crime, actually did kill her--and imagine all this time she thought she was dead BEFORE the tape and only learned yesterday, that she actually was not. Now wouldn't that be a serious Mind**** for Casey?

The HUCK ruling was upheld by the FL Supreme Court.There is no reason to place duct tape after death. The Buenaono case was cited in support and Belvin Perry PROSECUTED that case,so he knows this backwards and forwards. The DT will not be able to explain away the duct tape.

And then you have Dr. G ,who is beyond experienced. And DR. Haskell stated he felt certain the tape was placed before death.
If you don't believe these experts what are you basing your opinion on? I'm very curious.What have I missed these last 3 years?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

If she does not receive the DP or LWOP then that means she would not be convicted of 1st degree murder. ONLY the death penalty or LWOP can be given if that is the crime she is convicted of committing.

Thanks yeknomaras,
Can ICA be convicted of the child neglect charges alone? And what is the max penalty of these charges along with the other (4?) charges of lying to LE?

Anyone know what her sentence would be in this scenario? TIA

wm

 

[hpvdr]

Baez will put on a defense the same as his OS, which was ridiculous. There were so many holes an nothing provable.

The PT had very profession, well spoken ,articulate and educated witnesses.

Who is the DT going to have? the PI D casey, a psychic, Joy wray? I can't imagine any one as good as the witnesses we have seen so far.

JB can double talk, circular talk, or baby talk, nothing will change the fact he has NOTHING. JA will make mince meat of JB witnesses. Just 3 or 4 questions by JA and those witnesses will be discredited or look like babbling fools.

JB will get what he pays for.

So it seems to me that the prosecution has presented at least more than 80% of their case. Can't be exactly sure when, but even before today, they had pretty much covered everything they stated in their opening remarks and backed it up with outstanding experts. So now for Jose, I would have thought that at this point, he would have at least nailed something from his opening remarks. I know he still gets to call witnesses on the defenses behalf but let's see, George, Lee, Cindy, three key players in corroborating Casey's/JB's opening statements, have already been cross-examined by him. I don't recall during George's cross-examination that I was left with the feeling that George sexually molested Casey, pulled a drowned Caylee from the pool, or disposed of Caylee's body. And i don't recall after Jose's cross-examination of Lee thus far, that I was left with believing that Lee sexually molested Casey. And certainly after Jose cross-examined Cindy, thus far, I have to say I was NOT left with the sinking feeling that...Uh Oh, Cindy left the ladder attached to the pool. The only person in JB's opening remarks that he blamed for Caylee's disposal, not Caylees death, that we have not heard from is, Roy Kronk but I really can't believe that the "meter reader did it."

I'm left with the following questions: is it possible that Jose has nothing at all up his sleeve and that he is convinced that just because he said these things in his opening remarks, that everyone will believe him? Does he think because Casey on occasion was a good story teller, that he somehow developed those skills also? Is it possible, that he will not bring anyone to the witness stand, that will convince me of one thing in his opening remarks?

 

[Soulmagent]

Ok but died how? I'm sticking with Dr. G's 100% of the times when it is an accident, it is reported as an accident.
Going with your post, hypothetically, if it was an accident and the duct tape was put on immediately after Caylee died to set it up to look like a kidnapping, seems like a lot of detail for it not to be premeditated. (taking into account the duct tape with fringe hairs that could be attributed to the tape being wrapped around Caylee's wrists) (and if she loved Caylee as much as the Defense is saying, while she is thinking how to make it look like a kidnapping she is hysterical and crying and trying to revive Caylee.

Hit and runs are often not reported.

Unattended deaths are sometimes hidden.

So 100 percent of accidents are not reported.

Not all unreported deaths are murder.

 

[Cheewawa007]

Just fyi. My son in law flew in on a military plane from Afghanistan. to Germany... anither military flight to New York then a commercial flight to Atlanta. IIRC military flights do not depart every day. He had long layovers... It took him 3 days to get home... so if it is MH and he is overseas... Even if the SA realized he'd be needed sooner, there would be no way to hasten his arrival, and could explain why HHJBP had no choice but to delay.
MOO

Does anyone know if Brandon Snow is still in the military? Because in one of CA's depositions she speaks about ICA buying gifts online and sending the to Brandon who was overseas in the military.

 

[Florida Native]

I do not think my blood pressure can handle watching the dt's presentation live. I will just have to follow along here on WS. I get upset even thinking about what the "unusual attorneys" might try to pull. I know JA and team are perfectly capable of handling anything, but I just get too upset. Soon I hope JB's smirk will be a distant memory, but Caylee is forever.

I'm with you. I'll record it but follow along live here only.

 

[MissDiva]

At this point, while I no longer believe it was accidental, I don't know that ICA will receive the death penalty. I DO think she's going to jail for the rest of her life, though, because I think it's fairly evident that she's a sociopath and a danger to society.

Can someone please give me an online link to IS? All I can find is the general blog area, but not a video area. Thank you!

 

[wenwe4]

Cities departed from and arriving Orlando from 11:30 am – 12:05 pm on 6/13/11 include: Milwaukee, Baltimore, Atlanta, Nassau, Akron-Canton, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Kansas City, Nashville, Birmingham, Chicago-MDW, Panama City FL, Boston, Montreal, St. Louis, Cleveland, Hartford.....

there were pending flights that are not included in the above list....ones that were listed "on time"

 

[Chablis]

Murder one, DP. To me it seems obvious she had been thinking about it for months. 84 visits to chloroform site.

Its not enough, the page could have been refreshing. To make this stick they need to link her to a bottle of chloroform with her prints on it. The State can not prove murder, thats just a fact, well,they have tomorrow to reveal it if they have it, so there is still hope I suppose.

jmo

 

[smart blonde]

I know that, but nothing the state said makes me know she did this alone, either. Or how, or whether she sat down with a plan to kill her on that day. I can't get past her father not calling police or better yet, driving there, when he found the car at the tow yard and smelled the smell.

I appreciate your honesty, and I admit, I have been following this case too closely, for too long, to have the ability to be objective.

I guess that's why your post makes me nervous. I'm hoping none of the jurors see it this way. If you do, why wouldn't they?

But, even if she "didn't do it alone", would that make her less culpable? Even if someone did 'help' her, she herself is still guilty, right?

She's the one on trial. (Just thinking aloud).

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Mark Hawkings? Maybe he's the baby daddy!

:rocker:

Just like on Maury - YOU ARE THE FATHER!

What an awesome moment that would be!!

MOO

Mel

That could sure mess up some book deals and money deals if a father was proven.

 

[Cross Creek]

IIRC there was another case around the same time, which involved a child with duct tape, in the Orlando area. I thought of that at the beginning of this as some type of copycat scenario, which falls right in with ICA..

I think it was her plan all along to say she was missing or kidnapped and she would have the attention and sympathy of all & maybe even lead to her own tv show like John Walsh or Beth Holloway. Not to mention the money. Remember there were searches on the pc for missing children long before poor little Caylee was gone.

 

[Donjeta]

Three layers of 8 inch strands of duct tape layered up to her eye sockets to simulate a kidnapping? And didn't two forensic experts testify the duct tape was applied pre-mortem?

I don't think they did. They said prior to decomposition iirc.

 

[KMouse]

I know that, but nothing the state said makes me know she did this alone, either. Or how, or whether she sat down with a plan to kill her on that day. I can't get past her father not calling police or better yet, driving there, when he found the car at the tow yard and smelled the smell.

Because they were in contact with their daughter who had been telling them lies for a month about her being in Jacksonville for work etc. Caylee was fine and with the sitter, Zanny. There was no reason to suspect that Caylee was dead. Therefore the car stink may not have run that bell at that time.

I have thought about this a lot. Thinking about what I would do if I picked up the car and it stunk like death. I would probably think OMG what the heck is that smell but I don't know if I would call the police right away since at that time I would not think there was anything sinister going on. Casey and Caylee were not missing persons for that 31 days. There was regular contact with Cindy.

GA, CA, LA, and ICA are definitely a dysfunctional family. Casey's lies and disruption were nothing new and it seems like everybody was groomed not to ask too many questions of her or there would be temper tantrums.

 

[Florida Native]

Hit and runs are often not reported.

Unattended deaths are sometimes hidden.

So 100 percent of accidents are not reported.

Not all unreported deaths are murder.

I thought Dr. G. was specifically talking about drownings when she made the 100% statement. Now I'm confused. LOL

 

[momtective]

or to wet hair....

OMGoodness I never even thought about that...If Caylee had drowned her hair and face would have been wet and the tape would not have adhered. That tape was put on while that baby was dry and alive!