2011.06.13 Sidebar (Trial Day Seventeen)

[LolaMoon08]

And who is to say the duct tape wasn't applied 3 hours after she drowned, and had dried. Once ICA had come up with a plan to concoct the kidnapping theory?

I'm just saying that it is not as clear cut and dry as people would like to believe. Certainly there is enough circumstantial evidence to convict, but I don't think there is enough to prove anybody's theories as nothing more than theories, when it comes to what really happened...no matter how much we've convinced ourselves.

The only reason we will never know the sequence of events that caused Caylee's death is because Casey won't ever tell the truth. If Casey was trying to use the duct tape to cover up an accidental death and blaming it on a kidnapping... then why not just say that?? The mere fact that she is still distancing herself from the death of Caylee is because it is not the truth. She has blamed everyone else, but herself, for the accidental drowning. Even blaming Cindy for leaving the ladder down. George for covering up the accident and even the duct tape... someone else placed Caylee in the trunk and then Roy Kronk hid the body, etc...

Why would she just not come forward and tell what happened?? Because this is NOT what happened. It is just another one of her lies.

 

[Donjeta]

What is her new lie? Sorry, I may have missed it.

That Caylee drowned?

IMO the State probably had a bunch of witnesses lined up to debunk and trash the nanny story but now that Casey admitted that it was a bunch of BS they're not needed anymore.

 

[countzero]

Disclaimer: this is not a true story. I made it up. JB has not said any of the following, yet. It could all be a fantasy in JBs mind.

Since we know the DT reads here:

ICA will admit, via JB, that GA placed Caylee in the backyard while ICA was hysterical with fear and sadness. GA left for work, telling ICA to get Caylee ready to be put somewhere where she wouldn't be found until they had their stories straight. GA threatened ICA. While GA was gone, ICA put the duct tape on Caylee to make it appear as a kidnapping, doing as GA demanded she do then placed the heart sticker as her goodbye. GA came home and took Caylee.

The pings; well JB will tell the jury, the pings are unreliable. That GA took the pontaic and ICAs cell phone and met up with Roy on Suburban Dr. Roy and GA met at the escort service. Yada, Yada, Yada ....

Yea, that's what happened. JB will be telling the story, while ICA musters up some pokey eye tears, using toilet (1 ply) tissue. :loser: :loser:

 

[TakeNote]

is the trial over for the day?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Wow, so Caylee's drowning hardly registered as a blip in the radar for either George or Casey :waitasec:

Not only do they not know what time of day it was, they didn't even know what day it was.

I think you are onto something there...They knew fullwell they (Cindy and George) hadnt seen Caylee since Fathers Day..but being that it was over a month prior..they got the dates mixed...however..IF George had been involved at all he would have recalled quite well being it was on Fathers Day..and apparantly he had to work that day..so Cindy Caylee and KC spent the evening at the house...June 15th (Sunday)..Cindy apparantly in her fluster got the Fathers Day date mixed up..and yepper..KC went right along with it..more helpful to her agreeing to that!!

I am so grateful they had that Video timestamped of Caylee with Cindy's father at the nursing home...so in the end there is NO conflicting info that DT could use undermine the true timeline.. TY Cindy..and most importantly TY for reporting Caylee missing!! IF you had NOT reported it...we wouldnt be here today..!! We know KC would NEVER have come foreward!! JMOO

 

[MissJames]

I think the SA is saying it was chloroform AND duct tape. They are implying that Casey knocked Caylee out with chloroform and then duct taped her causing her death.

John Ashton laid it out at hearing when they argued for the DP .I'll be right back with the video

 

[pcrum12]

The amount of duct tape used is what justified in my mind that this was a clear indication of homicide.

If ICA was devastated about the drowning and only put duct tape on Caylee to make it appear like it was a kidnapping, then why would ICA feel the need to use more than one piece of tape? Knowing the dynamics of the family, especially the relationship between CA and ICA, I could have possibly been swayed into envisioning a distraught ICA holding Caylee in her arms, sobbing uncontrollably as she softly places ONE piece of tape across Caylee's mouth. (of course I don't buy this, I'm just saying)

However, the fact that several pieces of duct tape was used and wrapped with considerable amount of force, completely around Caylee's head is confimation to me that this was a homicide. It shows that ICA was in a rage when she put the duct tape on Caylee. ICA had had enough and she snapped. Poor little Caylee didn't stand a chance.

Believe me, I held on to that theory for quite some time until I realized that Casey did not just place a single piece of duct tape across her daughters face and mouth BUT, that she wound that roll of tape around her daughters little face and head. The tape across her hair eliminated all thoughts that she had ever intended to place it temporarily...such as she had attempted an induced chloroform nap while she was out having her fun times.

It was n't wrapping around her head per witness testimony.

 

[egnarts]

There are actually 5 tapes listed.

GA went to Lowe's for cement/patio addition, iirc.

 

[beach]

There is a thread on the duct tape.I don't believe it was cut with scissors,but you will find what other WS's were able to do remarkable.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5140504&postcount=347"]JWG's amazing experiment results on how the tape was torn.[/ame]

 

[Florida Native]

I don't know. It takes a certain kind of evil to go rent videos at Blockbuster with your unsuspecting boyfriend, just hours after your child dies- whether it was an accident, or not.

Actually, I think if your child died unexpectedly (as with an accidental drowning), it would be even harder to carry on as if nothing happened.

Ironically, if Caylee's death really had been unexpected, an accident, I believe Casey would have been devastated.

But, since Casey was the one who made the decision, Casey was the one in control. I believe 100% that Casey killed Caylee because she wanted to.

Thanks wasn't enough. I agree with you.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I was finally able to view an observer's sketches of the skull with the tape. They confirm what experts testified to, that the tape did cover at least the mouth area.

Was the tape the cause of death? I don't know. But I do know that this child is dead, and there is no innocent reason to find duct tape over a dead child's mouth.

JMO

 

[Eidetic]

OMGoodness I never even thought about that...If Caylee had drowned her hair and face would have been wet and the tape would not have adhered. That tape was put on while that baby was dry and alive!

Same goes to say if she was decomposing and purging fluids the tape could not have adhered to her face.

 

[NavySubMom]

The motive is proven by KC's behavior after Caylee was murdered. Party hearty. It's OBVIOUS.

I think I meant more of a "trigger", versus a motive. I don't feel the whole volatile relationship between ICA and CA was brought out in the State's case, although I might already be forgetting things. I just know so much from following this case for so long, I can't remember what I just know, and what has actually been put in front of the jury. I know Lee testified ICA said maybe she herself was "a spiteful B**". I also believe I remember she did the internet searches back in March, well before June 16, so there is the premeditation.... I know the whole families "denial", especially CA, was well shown. however, if I was on the jury, I might just wonder what made her "snap" on June 16. But I know the state does not have to show that, I would just be wondering if there was some specific event. Although if we are waiting for CA to admit to the "purported" fight on June 15, and I know we have no real evidence to back that up except for I think LP, that won't happen. IMO, MOO, etc.

Edited: However, I do believe the DT will put CA and GA back on to show the family dysfunction, and hopefully more about why ICA hated her mother so much will be shown at that time. And then the State will be able to cross whoever the Defense puts on. That should all be very interesting.

 

[Florida Native]

is the trial over for the day?

Over until 1:00 p.m. tomorrow. Waiting on a witness from out of town. SA plans to wrap up tomorrow or Wednesday.

 

[RR0004]

Hit and runs are often not reported.

Unattended deaths are sometimes hidden.

So 100 percent of accidents are not reported.

Not all unreported deaths are murder.

In your first two scenarios I see a crime being committed.

 

[MissJames]

I think the SA is saying it was chloroform AND duct tape. They are implying that Casey knocked Caylee out with chloroform and then duct taped her causing her death.

John Ashton argues possible scenario of Caylee's death .
Starts around 0:42



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srD-hdzEp8s"]YouTube - ‪Death Penalty Argument In Court Over Case Involving Casey Anthony‬‏[/ame]

 

[NocturnalLady]

John Ashton laid it out at hearing when they argued for the DP .I'll be right back with the video

Yes he said Caylee was restrained & I think even say either physically or by chemical means.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

No need, unless there is a Star in the East, Mark stated he did NOT have sex with ICA.

imo, ICA was stringing Mark along, just as she did the other guys. Kinda/sorta like hedging her bets or boys to be exact.

Except isn't Mark Tara's (is that the right name?) ex husband?
CA has said that Caylee had a half brother and I believe that would be Mark's son he had with Tara?

Again, just things I've heard and am confused about. I've not thought about Mark being Caylee's father until I thought about the above.
Remember KC said 'we never put the babies on the phone' or something like that.

The plot thickens as I think Lee was heartbroken by Tara, could he have fathered a child with her? Then Caylee and ________ would be cousins.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I went back to Official Trial Thread and pretty sure JA said "witnesses" coming in tomorrow

 

[shelbar53]

Ingredients needed to make chloroform are standard items in most homes.Nail polish remover,bleach or pool shock,and ice.Cement on the other hand is not as likely to be in most homes IMO.

I read on another thread that the "how to make chlorform" site specifically stated the acetone is NOT the nail polish remover type but the paint remover type.