A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

[Really?]

I have rolls of burlap. I use it for wrapping up the fig trees in winter.

So I know landscapers use it.

 

[FindHG]

Finished watching my DVR recording of the show from Saturday night and wanted to share some thoughts.

First wanted to congratulate a job well done to all involved with the production of "The Killing Season". It was very well done and did a great job to help summarize a very complex case.

Below are some of the things that stood out to me while watching in no particular order.

-I agree with others in the thinking that LISK could be either LE or Ex-LE person because of multiple reasons. Including that it appears that
LISK has experience with evidence collecting methods because some bodies were attempted to avoid identifying.

Also, the girl that disappeared from Madison Square Garden area has me thinking maybe a LE officer made a fake arrest to get her to his vehicle.

My understanding is she was on her way out of the area and yet she disappeared from an area where there is usually a lot of people around.
The only way I can see that happening without raising suspicion is if LISK was in uniform and faked an arrest. The area around the garden typically always has people around. It would be very risky for LISK to make his move there unless he had a ruse like LE uniform.

-The use of burlap is interesting. One thing I have not seen discussed is that burlap allows air to penetrate. It "breathes". Which allows
a corpse to "rot" more naturally with less odor. On the phone calls to the sister LISK said he was going to watch her sister "rot". This tells me
he was using the burlap in a special way because he had to keep the bodies close by until he found just the right time to dump them permanently.

So maybe he had to keep them in his basement or garage or outside his house until he found his chance to be able to dump them permanently without being seen.

-The non release of the 911 call. This is very important and LE needs to explain why this has not been done at least for the families. Something is very important in that regard and it ties to the potential identity of LISK IMO. Could the tape have incriminated LE?

-IMO I do not necessarily think there are two killers. I believe the person may have just gotten bolder and bolder and decided he did not have to
take extremes like he did before. If there is more than one killer then I think it may just be one or two victims. I feel the majority of the victims are from one killer and that he did not always dismember them once he got comfortable with not being caught.

Tipping my hat, Hatfield. Thank you for putting it all so succinctly. Agreed completely.

~

I am new to websleuths as well. I am absolutely intrigued by the show on A&E. I am in North Carolina and i do not recall ever hearing about these events. Which to me is very sad. I teared up a few times while watching this imagining the torture the families go through daily of the unknown. I am a mother of a 2 and 3 year old and could never imagine the horror of losing a child. I am praying for these victims and their families and i will continue to pray. May we help to give all of the families peace and find the person/person's who have caused such heart ache and loss.

:welcome5:​

Lambert1315... it's great to have you join in on the discussion and to read your very kind words for the families. Thank you!

 

[MountainLover]

I have a dumb question re: the show (which is AWESOME BTW)-who does/did the music score of the 1st episode? You can PM me if this is not an appropriate question for this forum. Big kudos to Josh and Rachel for this film.

 

[lolitta]

Oh we tried...

Did he not want to talk or did the prison admin not allow it?

 

[FindHG]

I have rolls of burlap. I use it for wrapping up the fig trees in winter.

So I know landscapers use it.

So, knowing the exact type or types of burlap used may be telling of something, but would it help to know, considering how meticulous this perp has been in not getting arrested?

Are there any images of the burlap available, ideally from LE sources, but from MSM at the time?

I think it says more about the aspiration or motivation of his crimes. He killed the easily forgotten, he assumed at the time. He kept them, tormented them, they were special to him, these trophies. They were never themselves to him, always part of some strange relationship he has with this area and sense of himself. He is obviously a sadist, but he wants to rule in his mind, dominate, master, present to this area and the world. A guess would be his mom definitely lived and died in this area and that may have had on impact on how he approached his disposals, over time. His father probably paid for pleasure, so from a relatively messed up family. Just pure speculation.

 

[lolitta]

-I agree with others in the thinking that LISK could be either LE or Ex-LE person because of multiple reasons. Including that it appears that
LISK has experience with evidence collecting methods because some bodies were attempted to avoid identifying.

Also, the girl that disappeared from Madison Square Garden area has me thinking maybe a LE officer made a fake arrest to get her to his vehicle.

My understanding is she was on her way out of the area and yet she disappeared from an area where there is usually a lot of people around.
The only way I can see that happening without raising suspicion is if LISK was in uniform and faked an arrest. The area around the garden typically always has people around. It would be very risky for LISK to make his move there unless he had a ruse like LE uniform.

It's possible he is in LE but it's also possible he is anything else. There's no direct evidence given out stating either. Just theories.
Anyone can go on the internet and google "way's to identify human remains", "ways to fool law enforcement", "counter surveillance techniques" etc,....very basic stuff really. No need to be in law enforcement to have that knowledge.

People are raped, robbed, murdered every day around the world by being drugged by Devils Breath (Scopolamine).
The perp has no need to have the victim know them to get close or intimate with them either. It can be put in a drink, blown in the victims face, or just touched to their face for a fraction of a second. There is no more evil drug. Hence the name.

Scams going on all over the world by evil people to fool people and con them. News reports constantly about Craig List scams and people fall for them over and over again just for one example. Evil people spend their free time learning ways to get close to their victims. It's part of their obsession and that is part of the thrill they get from it all; not just the killing and getting away with it.

 

[i.b.nora]

I am intrigued by all the speculation regarding the use of burlap (and who might be a user of burlap or have ready access to it). Not to be too glib, but in thinking about it this morning I was reminded that Martha Stewart is a huge user of burlap.

“JANUARY 8, 2014
Wrapping The Farm In Burlap!
I am a firm believer in covering boxwood shrubs and other plants that may suffer damage from winter's frigid winds and heavy snow with burlap. This is a practice I've followed for many years and it offers tremendous peace of mind, knowing that branches won't be spayed and misshapen, or even broken from wet snow and ice. The trick is to get this task done before the elements of winter can do any harm ... As usual, I commend my crew!”
Source​

Obviously I am not suggesting that Martha has any involvement but I do think that the suspect has some relationship to a gardening or nursery industry. Someone first mentioned the notion a few days ago and it has stuck with me ever since.

 

[jenves]

Not to downplay any thought that has went into the significance of burlap. But my first thought was fairly simple and straight forward. Burlap is the perfect camouflage for the beach. It practically blends in with the sand and sea grass.

Y'all are awesome, I have learned so much.


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[dotr]

I am intrigued by all the speculation regarding the use of burlap (and who might be a user of burlap or have ready access to it). Not to be too glib, but in thinking about it this morning I was reminded that Martha Stewart is a huge user of burlap.

“JANUARY 8, 2014
Wrapping The Farm In Burlap!
I am a firm believer in covering boxwood shrubs and other plants that may suffer damage from winter's frigid winds and heavy snow with burlap. This is a practice I've followed for many years and it offers tremendous peace of mind, knowing that branches won't be spayed and misshapen, or even broken from wet snow and ice. The trick is to get this task done before the elements of winter can do any harm ... As usual, I commend my crew!”
Source​

Obviously I am not suggesting that Martha has any involvement but I do think that the suspect has some relationship to a gardening or nursery industry. Someone first mentioned the notion a few days ago and it has stuck with me ever since.

Maybe perp keeps his own " green house" masks or explains odour by saying he is using compost/manure for growing.
He could be an architect who works in an office in the city, and in the summer months oversees his landscaping and other design projects " out in the field."
speculation.

 

[FindHG]

Maybe perp keeps his own " green house" masks or explains odour by saying he is using compost/manure for growing.
He could be an architect who works in an office in the city, and in the summer months oversees his landscaping and other design projects " out in the field."
speculation.

Maybe you're absolutely right, dotr, as the expert in Rachel and Josh's first two episodes of "The Killing Season" mentions, some low risk work area, maybe where he composts or something, functions unnoticed or is able to restrict being observed? Maybe sets out for his placements during storms, during desolate turbulent times, when he may have been more certain of where exactly he would not lose his trophies, have them wash away, placing his trophies after the remains have not much left for carrion feeders. This precise sadist did not want his trophies moved, his presentations. I wonder if he liked arts and craft as a child? I wonder if ran into anyone during those times, if he stood out, over time? Pure speculation.


TIPS contact info

 

[Neptune]

Do you think when they were on hold, he was calling his lawyer?
Either way..he didn't seem too surprised or even ticked. I would be mad ticked.

I think he turned on his phone tape recorder.

 

[dotr]

Maybe you're absolutely right, dotr, as the expert in Rachel and Josh's first two episodes of "The Killing Season" mentions, some low risk work area, maybe where he composts or something, functions unnoticed or is able to restrict being observed? Maybe sets out for his placements during storms, during desolate turbulent times, when he may have been more certain of where exactly he would not lose his trophies, have them wash away, placing his trophies after the remains have not much left for carrion feeders. This precise sadist did not want his trophies moved, his presentations. I wonder if he liked arts and craft as a child? I wonder if ran into anyone during those times, if he stood out, over time? Pure speculation.


TIPS contact info

rbbm.

Thinking about the kind of person who would " stand out " without standing out, and whom people generally do not pay much attention to, is a homeless person.
They (he) could be out there all covered up in rags or coats and hat, bearded or face dirtied making identification difficult
and perhaps most importantly, be pushing/pulling a cart filled with stuff.
just speculating..

 

[coffeeandacig]

Thank you Emer E
I contacted NamUs and asked them to submit the information to Plantation LE for both Colleen Perris and Jane Doe #6. I'll give it some time and wait for a response.

That's a very possible match. On Colleen's page DNA tab it says
Sample submitted - Tests complete
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/8724/0/

But this can be misleading because comparisons are not automated. That means they put the DNA on the database but comparisons are manually done.

Here's a quote I got from a Namus officer
"All comparisons request has to go through the agency that's investigating the specific case."

If I were you, I would try to contact the LE Agency and push hard. Ready to give a hand if you need help.

BTW... Does anyone know if there is public access to the photographs the victims used in their advertisements? Or is there a WS thread that discusses the photographs? Perhaps there was a common object or something to that effect that made these women stand out to the perpertrator.

 

[Hellatubby]

"I think the toddler is key to at least his personality. He didn't hunt the toddler she was just collateral. The mother was dismantled yet the toddler suffered apparently no trauma and was wrapped in plastic. The intense control it would have taken to slaughter the mother yet mercifully kill the toddler shows the passion or relatabitly the toddler had to the killer. I believe the killers mother or female grown up was a prostitute to make ends meet and probably witnessed her beat on and nearly killed numerous times. The Queens thing also shows it more than likely occurred in queens somewhere about 35-50 years ago. Looking at child service records around that time of these circumstances may open some new leads."

 

[LadyFey]

Someone should go talk to Joel Rifkin about what he thinks is going on out there. Bet he has some useful insight.

There is a link to an article in the NYDailyNews about Joel Rifkin's response to these killings in media links, but I couldn't follow the link and didn't pursue it further.


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[Lanesmommy]

In response to the burlap discussion, which some believe has no significance and others view it as a major clue, I kept coming back to the authorities on the case saying they were "wrapped". I thought it was odd that you would wrap a body in a sack. But then im not very versed in burlap and have never used it. But awhile back I was watching an episode in the first season of The Strain, which is set in NYC. It was winter and the large trees, think they were some type of evergreen, were WRAPPED in burlap. I have meant to share this for awhile but never got around to it. Is this common in the north? What would the point of this be? Maybe LISK wraps his trees as well. All IMO.

 

[LadyFey]

"People are raped, robbed, murdered every day around the world by being drugged by Devils Breath (Scopolamine).
The perp has no need to have the victim know them to get close or intimate with them either. It can be put in a drink, blown in the victims face, or just touched to their face for a fraction of a second. There is no more evil drug. Hence the name."

There it is again! I've seen Scopolamine mentioned before as a date-rape drug, probably because it makes people malleable. Isn't it also known as "truth serum"? Widely rumored to have been used by intelligence services during the Cold War?
I'm wondering two things though....why would it be necessary to use a date-rape drug on someone who's already there for the purpose of having (paid) sex? And, is there any evidence from the victims' autopsies of this being in their systems?


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[ghost story]

I loved the show last night and wanted to give a couple of thoughts FWIW

I think LISK is able to get the girls to leave phones, divers, ID, etc. behind by promising money - lots of money - with the excuse that he is private, solitary, embarrassed, whatever. Remember that a promise of $1500 or $2000 is nothing to the killer if you have no plan to ever pay.

I think there are two killers that are unrelated. If I am remembering the timelines the GB4 went missing at about the same time (Fall of 2009 to spring 2010?) but the other dismembered bodies were much older. I need a date each victim went missing to verify this. I think the GB4 killer seems more neat, organized, while the other seems violent, sadistic, and unafraid of leaving the torsos in areas uncovered and in the open.

One other question I have is about the Dr. who called Shannan's mother Mari. How did he get her phone #? I think he has claimed that others in the neighborhood gave it to him and told him to call. How would anyone in that neighborhood have her mother's #? Did SG's boyfriend walk around giving this out? Has this been verified? He (the Dr) is an odd man...

 

[LadyFey]

rbbm.

Thinking about the kind of person who would " stand out " without standing out, and whom people generally do not pay much attention to, is a homeless person.
They (he) could be out there all covered up in rags or coats and hat, bearded or face dirtied making identification difficult
and perhaps most importantly, be pushing/pulling a cart filled with stuff.
just speculating..

Absolutely right. People avoid looking at the homeless, although they may remember one being around.....
Another group that is completely "not seen" are landscapers or gardeners. And, they use burlap. Who would notice someone in a gardener's uniform who appeared to be carrying burlap wrapped sod?


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[coffeeandacig]

Maybe you're absolutely right, dotr, as the expert in Rachel and Josh's first two episodes of "The Killing Season" mentions, some low risk work area, maybe where he composts or something, functions unnoticed or is able to restrict being observed? Maybe sets out for his placements during storms, during desolate turbulent times, when he may have been more certain of where exactly he would not lose his trophies, have them wash away, placing his trophies after the remains have not much left for carrion feeders. This precise sadist did not want his trophies moved, his presentations. I wonder if he liked arts and craft as a child? I wonder if ran into anyone during those times, if he stood out, over time? Pure speculation.


TIPS contact info

Your "I wonder if he liked arts and crafts as a child?" It's got me speculating... Who observes without being observed? Who uses burlap on a regular basis? Who spends so much time out in the field that they know every nook and cranny? Who is obsessed with presentation (the bodies in a row)? Who has seasons to their work?
And the only people who can fit this, in my mind, are locally based wildlife painters. Someone who is obsessed capturing the birds, and in particular water fowl.