Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[zh0r4]

What other crime is suspected of being Odinist?

I don’t think Lebrato was referring to another crime suspected of being tied to Odinism, he was talking about the Delphi case. He explains how he originally thought the Odinism angle was “hocus pocus” but the more he got into it he realized it “was real and scary”. “In what way?” Lebrato responds, “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.” He also stated, “Mr. Baldwin and Mr. Rozzi were on to something right away.”

IMO the comment “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.” interesting. Since according to the CS section of the FM, it described one of the girls in a very different state/more severe than the other.

 

[DeDee]

From the interview conducted with BMcD by Court TV about her interview with Lebrato, I believe he was pretty clear, regardless of ”walking it back,” as you refer to it. I don’t see it as that. I see it as a statement of fact. It does not negate what he expressed prior to that statement.

When BMcD was asked how emphatic BL is in his belief that RA is innocent, BMcD’s response was that he believed not just that he is “not guilty, but that he’s innocent of these charges and not involved at all according to Bill Lebrato. That was a bit surprising to me..…and I pushed back on that a bit, ‘you’re a defence attorney that’s your job to say that’ .… He doesn’t say that very often and he’s never felt as strongly about a client’s innocence as he does in this case.” ”Yes, 100% innocent, he said”

When asked about the Odinist angle Lebrato responded to BMcD, “I thought it was hocus pocus. I honestly didn’t… I’d never heard of it. Ummm, and the more I got into it, Ummmm, that’s, that’s a real thing. It’s a real thing, and, it’s scary.” BMcD then asks, “In what way?” Lebrato responds, “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.” He also stated, “Mr. Baldwin and Mr. Rozzi were on to something right away.”

As well, BMcD shared, “Yeah, and he said that you know, their defence strategy probably would have been a little bit different than Rozzi and Baldwin, but not too different. Oh, they were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing, alleging there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen’s home. It appears they were following a similar path, not identical, but a similar path.”

Personally, I don’t think what he said can be called, “walking it back.”

With regard to his statements about Gull’s fairness, well, in his experience thus far with her, he sees her as being fair. I have to wonder if he and Scremin had remained on the case, if his opinion of her “fairness” would have changed. How fair does he feel she is now that she denied having RA moved which occurred after they left the case? I really don’t think he would find that fair having witnessed what he did of RA’s situation in prison which he also commented on. As far as I know, he didn’t “walk that back.” JMHO

Quote from your link:

When asked about the Odinist angle Lebrato responded to BMcD, “I thought it was hocus pocus.

"Hocus Pocus" I think Judge Gull may feel much the same way and is a possible explanation for her harsh treatment of the D Team, in general, and of RA, in particular. Well, then she also liked the comment on the FB page which I find to be an unethical move and buttresses the possible bias theory. Most grandparents might congratulate their GD in person but she, being a court judge in this very case, made her feelings known publicly.

Lebrato responds, “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.”

I tend to agree with this terrorizing aspect based upon my own visceral reaction to the totality of the Flow of the Crime Scene developed, by myself and not GH, in the month or so after their murders. Something very awful and unusual happened to our girls. There is an unorthodox reason for a killing first-timer to select two young females, esp when one weighs as much as RA did. Isn't he shorter than both of them? Does he possess what's know of as "The Napoleon Complex"?

The first search warrant was issued to the residence of a RSO. That's a strong indicator of the initial direction of the investigation. The 2nd sketch, or the younger looking BG, was released in APR 2019.

If RA was checking the market's stock ticker, wouldn't his phone be traceable to the MHB by using his phones' downloaded data that will prove, once and for all, when one of his phones was at the MHB and when it left?

AMHOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Thank you @Ravenmoon

I was confused over this whole 'comet' vehicle. You explained this nicely, and I also appreciate your research on this case. How do you stay so organized especially with your backup links.

Curious, do you feel BG acted alone?

I appreciate you so much!

I do believe that the murderer acted alone as far as the killing.

In my opinion there are other actors, but I feel that they are involved indirectly.

One possibility is that someone helped lead him to the girls


And/or:

The killer is involved in the abuse ring in Indiana that is a part of a much bigger monster

And/ or:

Someone has helped him cover up what he did, wether only on that day, or continuously.


AJMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I am wondering about the yellow rope that was found at the scene.( Found in the FM)

Is it possible that fibers from that rope were found in either RA'S car, house, shed or all of the above?

Something tells me "yes". Of course, that's just an opinion.


MOO

 

[Boxer]

I would say: they are rather super distrustful people.

True. But then the things that they turn to, to trust often have no evidence base whataoever.

 

[zh0r4]

The first search warrant was issued to the residence of a RSO. That's a strong indicator of the initial direction of the investigation. The 2nd sketch, or the younger looking BG, was released in APR 2019.

If RA was checking the market's stock ticker, wouldn't his phone be traceable to the MHB by using his phones' downloaded data that will prove, once and for all, when one of his phones was at the MHB and when it left?

AMHOO

RSBM/RBBM

Great question! YES, his phone location would be traceable by sim data. Sim data is only available from the phone company-so typically the phone company would be subpoenaed to acquire the sim data. This is one reason it was odd the D said there was nothing on RA’s technological devices tying him to the CS-if RA is BG, his sim data will show his phone on the bridge at that time/prove he is BG, tying him to the crime scene. I assume LE subpoenaed the phone company, so I’m very confused.

What is RSO? TIA!

 

[mrjitty]

Said every criminal defense attorney:

[…]

Performing is part of the job.

[…]

I would defend a client who I knew was guilty of horrific crimes. They have to be proved guilty. I've had cases where people were guilty as hell but they couldn't prove it. And if they can't prove it, he's not guilty. In that case, the person walks free. That's American justice.

[…]

Was I horrified by my client? In the murder arena, you just don't have that sort of mindset. You're thinking, I'm going to do the darndest I can to defend this person as well as I possibly can. You want to prevail. You're battling the other side. Whether or not he gets off is up to the jury.

[…]
Defending the indefensible? Lawyers on representing clients accused of nightmarish crimes


imo

Right.

And it does seem to be the fashion in these high profile cases for the attorneys to personally attest to the factual innocence of their clients. It seems odd to me, because this is the one thing an attorney does not ask or know!

Especially for media interviews, I guess it just comes across stronger to say "my client is innocent" than "my client asserts his innocence" or worse "prove it!"

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM/RBBM

Great question! YES, his phone location would be traceable by sim data. Sim data is only available from the phone company-so typically the phone company would be subpoenaed to acquire the sim data. This is one reason it was odd the D said there was nothing on RA’s technological devices tying him to the CS-if RA is BG, his sim data will show his phone on the bridge at that time/prove he is BG, tying him to the crime scene. I assume LE subpoenaed the phone company, so I’m very confused.

What is RSO? TIA!

This is why i think his device was off or at home.

If RA's device did support his timeline, or should have proved it but LE didn't have the tower data, <modsnip - namecalling> would have said so in the Franks. Instead they strangely didn't mention his phone at all.

I think it will be very interesting when his phone was on/off that day. Maybe more so that where it was.

The Stock ticker is an awfully specific piece of colour info in the tip sheet, and one I think the defence will be stuck with.

Especially I am sure the prosecution will have pulled anything they still could from the phone companies before the '22 interview.

 

[sunshineray]

If the A_S account was used by unknown criminals (or one unknown criminal), who collected data for themselves and searched for their own special future victim, would it be logical, that in other unsolved murder cases re young girls (across states) this connection with A_S also would turn up? Did the connection already turn up during some investgation outside Indiana and we don't know about it?

I suppose it's possible but it seems like a_shots account was KAK's gold mine. I just wonder if it was his cash cow too.

 

[sunshineray]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus

The timeline on the bullet goes like this:

The CS is secured on FEB 14. The CS remained secure for 3 days. Then, the CS is released for about a day and a half at which time the CS was resecured.

@ 2:20 in vid with BM on Court TV Feb 12, 2024
Delphi Murders: Where does the case stand 7 years later?

Ok so, what would the supposed substitution have been and why would it have possibly occured just a week to a week and a half or so after the murders? Still well before the warrant search on RA's home.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

And to know that LE were going to return at all... Otherwise, you're just fruitlessly seeding the woods with rounds that they won't have any context for for six years. If they wanted to frame the guy, surely they'd steal his wallet and leave his credit card right there with his name on it for the world to see.

MOO

Yes the crime scene was unsecured for 21 hours or so before the girls were found. If the “odinists” wanted to plant a bullet to frame RA, that would be the time to do it.
Not after police had come and processed the scene and left.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes the crime scene was unsecured for 21 hours or so before the girls were found. If the “odinists” wanted to plant a bullet to frame RA, that would be the time to do it.
Not after police had come and processed the scene and left.

Oh yeah the ever vigilant Odinists that RA never had any contact with (right, the old/new D certainly aren't claiming the Odinists knew RA and had access to his home and gun)...planting a bullet for his specific gun. Well now that sounds absurd...or does it?

 

[mrjitty]

Yes the crime scene was unsecured for 21 hours or so before the girls were found. If the “odinists” wanted to plant a bullet to frame RA, that would be the time to do it.
Not after police had come and processed the scene and left.

If this is to make any sense, you would have to put the original round or a new one through RA's gun after the search of his house, then put it back into the evidence bag.

But even then, how do you know there would be any useful marks? This feels like an awfully obscure idea to me. If you really wanted to frame someone for the Sheriff's election campaign, wouldn't you do something a bit more direct? Take some fibres from the evidence room and plant them at the suspects house?

 

[DeDee]

Ok so, what would the supposed substitution have been and why would it have possibly occured just a week to a week and a half or so after the murders? Still well before the warrant search on RA's home.

I'm quite sure that I don't know why you are asking me about a substitution. I've never even hinted that I feel there was a "substitution". Please tell me, then, if you can, where you got the idea that I did. TIA

 

[susiQ]

What other crime is suspected of being Odinist?

I believe my post only speaks to the murders of Abby and Libby. None other that I would know of.

 

[Salah11]

The problem with any theory the defense throws out is they have to over come multiple confessions to loved ones. Him admitting he was dressed as BG and was out on the bridge that day. Also a bullet from his gun which he also says he never lent to anybody else.

There are so many stumbling blocks to over come and Odinists just ain’t gonna cut it imo

 

[sunshineray]

I'm quite sure that I don't know why you are asking me about a substitution. I've never not even hinted that I feel there was a "substitution". Please tell me, then, if you can, where you got the idea that I did. TIA

You responded to my post that was in reply to another's.

 

[sunshineray]

The problem with any theory the defense throws out is they have to over come multiple confessions to loved ones. Him admitting he was dressed as BG and was out on the bridge that day. Also a bullet from his gun which he also says he never lent to anybody else.

There are so many stumbling blocks to over come and Odinists just ain’t gonna cut it imo

Must be why they need clarification on their own actions...they seem terribly confused. JMO

 

[DeDee]

I am wondering about the yellow rope that was found at the scene.( Found in the FM)

Is it possible that fibers from that rope were found in either RA'S car, house, shed or all of the above?

Something tells me "yes". Of course, that's just an opinion.


MOO

So, you do believe there was a yellow rope found at the CS as mentioned in the D Memo. Just curious. What else do you believe regarding the data from the D Memo?

 

[DeDee]

You responded to my post that was in reply to another's.

I edited most of that reply to focus on one statement though. I wasn't responding to anything but what I highlighted.