Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Betty P]

Conspiracy minded people are gullible people.

JMO, its also the proliferation of "true crime" social media. A lot of it is good, but there's a lot of sites, etc. that say edgy, conspiracy-type things just for the clicks and $$$$. Unlike the news media, tv, cable, etc. there aren't always good standards or ethics for reporting accurate information. I suppose there's a lot of money to be earned with a YouTube, Instagram, etc. account. It's also just a game to some people.

Defense attorneys and crime suspects have learned to use this to their advantage. That's been going on a long time, but lately some are taking the defense attorney as edgelord thing pretty far. JMO

 

[DeDee]

What would the supposed substitution have been and why would it have possibly occured just a day or so after the murders?

Respectfully snipped by me for focus

The timeline on the bullet goes like this:

The CS is secured on FEB 14. The CS remained secure for 3 days. Then, the CS is released for about a day and a half at which time the CS was resecured.

@ 2:20 in vid with BM on Court TV Feb 12, 2024
Delphi Murders: Where does the case stand 7 years later?

 

[zh0r4]

Unless.... he was aware of a factory reset and knew that nothing that occurred on that phone in that week would connect to him.

JMO

A factory reset does not destroy data, all of that data can be recovered if done correctly. Even by a layperson.

There are multiple tools in the public domain used for digital forensics that can recover data: Cellebrite, Caine, Magnet, AXIOM, FTK and Imager (to name a few) all on parrotOS, all Linux based, all free.

 

[zh0r4]

Everyone on the trail was identified, except BG.

The witness who saw BG on bridge walked the length of the trail as a loop, parking at Mears then walking first up to MHB then down to FB and back to Mears parking.

The girls had been on the trail and were leaving by FB when BG passed them going toward MHB.
The witness saw them on the FB bridge as she drove on i25 to get the 300 and the Mears trail access.

RA confirned he saw the girls on the trail, and that he was on the bridge at the time the witness said she saw him.

The timeline is solid.

The first photo of BG was released as a request for him to come forward. It was put out around 5pm on 2/15/2017. By the 19th he was called a person of interest by the ISP.


RIP Abby and Libby
MOO they got him

For clarification, when you say the first photo of BG do you mean the sketch or the video?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Respectfully snipped by me for focus

The timeline on the bullet goes like this:

The CS is secured on FEB 14. The CS remained secure for 3 days. Then, the CS is released for about a day and a half at which time the CS was resecured.

@ 2:20 in vid with BM on Court TV Feb 12, 2024
Delphi Murders: Where does the case stand 7 years later?

All due respect. This is not verified as factual.
This is opinion of a journalist.

Are you implying that someone planted the bullet underground at the crime scene 3 days after the crime and then hoped LE would be back to find it after they had closed the crime scene?
Then hope that they would tie said bullet to RA 5 years later?

RA said he had never been there prior to the murders. Why would his bullet be there if not related to the crime which was commissioned with his personal gun?

 

[Megnut]

A factory reset does not destroy data, all of that data can be recovered if done correctly. Even by a layperson.

There are multiple tools in the public domain used for digital forensics that can recover data: Cellebrite, Caine, Magnet, AXIOM, FTK and Imager (to name a few) all on parrotOS, all Linux based, all free.

True this.

But fortunately many criminals don't know that!

 

[DeDee]

Bullet:

What makes more sense?

Someone planted it years ago in order to frame someone today?

Or

Chain of custody isn't straight forward?

It seems pretty well documented based on the little we know.

Was it between the girls at the time of the crime? IMO yes. May it have been stepped on, embedding it in the muddy soil? IMO maybe. Is it a match to other bullets cycled through the accused's gun? I believe it but I'm willing to hold judgment until I've heard from the experts.

That BG appears to have had a gun on him and a bullet was found, there's room for a 1:1 association. Compelling.

JMO

I can understand this theory. My issue with the bullet is that perhaps the bullet was not found by law enforcement but maybe was found instead by a curious person scanning the area of the crime scene once it was initially released. It's reported to LE so they close off and shut down the CS again. Critical thinking allows for a bullet to be planted in between the times when the CS was unsecured for 1.5 days.

However, if a bullet was planted in the soil under leaves that matches RA's particular weapon, then subject to scientific analysis, that's a slight boom! If the bullet can match to a scientific certainty to be chambered from his weapon, then why would someone plant RA's unspent bullet at the CS 3 to 4.5 days after the murders? Rhetorically, who would know to do that?

 

[Megnut]

I can understand this theory. My issue with the bullet is that perhaps the bullet was not found by law enforcement but maybe was found instead by a curious person scanning the area of the crime scene once it was initially released. It's reported to LE so they close off and shut down the CS again. Critical thinking allows for a bullet to be planted in between the times when the CS was unsecured for 1.5 days.

However, if a bullet was planted in the soil under leaves that matches RA's particular weapon, then subject to scientific analysis, that's a slight boom! If the bullet can match to a scientific certainty to be chambered from his weapon, then why would someone plant RA's unspent bullet at the CS 3 to 4.5 days after the murders? Rhetorically, who would know to do that?

Exactly. Who would know to do that? No one.

I don't think thee is actually any conspiracy relative to the bullet. I think the defense created ambiguity because that bullet is so damning. They'll target it in every way they can.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Libby and Abby were catfished by 2 accounts A_Shots and AuntEmily by KAK that we know of. Those have been proven to be associated with KAK and whomever also lived with him and had access to his devices at the time.

Libby did a factory reset on her phone the day (or two) before she went to the Bridge. KAK was interrogated and there were extensive searches done in Wabash River near his home right before RA's arrest. LE said they were investigating one of the largest CSAM rings in IN. I don't think it's illogical to consider the possibility that Abby & Libby were lured there by someone associated in some way with what was going on.

I also think back to the State Prosecutor mentioning still looking for 'any other bad actor' being involved when they held their first PC after RA's arrest. How does that make sense if they felt like they had their one and only man?

Could RA have loaded up his gun and knife on a day and time those girls would have normally been in school, wearing a fanny pack, jackets, hoodie and head covering etc, arrive approx the same time and Abby & Libby, catch them on the MHB at the exact time they were on the end leading to nowhere except across the creek just because?

It's the totality of all the pieces in play that is just too coincidental to me, is it impossible? No not statically as you pointed out, but I still believe it was planned meet up with someone who Libby thought was A_Shots.

JMO

But wouldnt we know this from the charging and pretrial motions by now?

 

[zh0r4]

Rhetorically, who would know to do that?

Rsbm

Rhetorically, a potential murderer(s) or those who knew the murderer(s) & had access to the area sometime within those 1.5 days?

 

[mrjitty]

Rhetorically, a potential murderer(s) or those who knew the murderer(s) & had access to the area sometime within those 1.5 days?

Its a bit farfetched they would frame RA by cycling an unspent round through his gun and planting it?

I think that is my main problem with these ideas. Trying to frame someone via toolmark evidence on an unspent round is a pretty obscure methodology. How would you even know meaningful marks were left?

 

[zh0r4]

It’s a bit farfetched they would frame RA by cycling an unspent round through his gun and planting it?

It would have to be someone he knew, if that actually happened. We are speaking rhetorically. It is more likely that tying unspent bullet cartridges to a specific gun is not a legitimate science (as there is still debate about spent cartridges in ballistics today) and it would be thrown out, or IF there’s a lack of chain of custody, thrown out because of that. JMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

Its a bit farfetched they would frame RA by cycling an unspent round through his gun and planting it?

I think that is my main problem with these ideas. Trying to frame someone via toolmark evidence on an unspent round is a pretty obscure methodology. How would you even know meaningful marks were left?

And to know that LE were going to return at all... Otherwise, you're just fruitlessly seeding the woods with rounds that they won't have any context for for six years. If they wanted to frame the guy, surely they'd steal his wallet and leave his credit card right there with his name on it for the world to see.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

And to know that LE were going to return at all... Otherwise, you're just fruitlessly seeding the woods with rounds that they won't have any context for for six years. If they wanted to frame the guy, surely they'd steal his wallet and leave his credit card right there with his name in it for the world to see.

MOO

Exactly. They'd leave his gun. And wallet for good measure.

This is all Defense smoke anyway. It'll save them from fighting the bullet in court if they can toss it before trial.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

Why does anyone here have to give RA a presumption of innocence? This isn't Court, we are simply discussing the case and the evidence and actions of the attorneys which we are freely allowed to do. I don't expect everyone here to assume his guilt.

I was replying to your statement that his former defense thought RA was innocent when his actual words were “I think he’s not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocence is one of the most important legal theories that we have."

Lebrato didn't come right out and say RA is absolutely innocent, like R&B have done, which is what I was addressing and is what I find interesting.

He spoke of his own opinion of Judge Gull's reputation based on having worked with her for 20 years. How does that make Lebrato wrong? He is entitled to his own opinion, especially having experienced working with her directly.

The SCOIN unanimously agreed to keep her on the case, so it speaks volumes that they believe she absolutely can do the job or they would have removed her. They had the opportunity and power to do so, but did not. How does that make them wrong?

Her Motion to deny RA to be moved again does not require a hearing. Not all Motions to the Court are granted hearings, the Judge has the power to rule on them with/without a hearing. Again, how does that make her wrong?

MOO

From the interview conducted with BMcD by Court TV about her interview with Lebrato, I believe he was pretty clear, regardless of ”walking it back,” as you refer to it. I don’t see it as that. I see it as a statement of fact. It does not negate what he expressed prior to that statement.

When BMcD was asked how emphatic BL is in his belief that RA is innocent, BMcD’s response was that he believed not just that he is “not guilty, but that he’s innocent of these charges and not involved at all according to Bill Lebrato. That was a bit surprising to me..…and I pushed back on that a bit, ‘you’re a defence attorney that’s your job to say that’ .… He doesn’t say that very often and he’s never felt as strongly about a client’s innocence as he does in this case.” ”Yes, 100% innocent, he said”

When asked about the Odinist angle Lebrato responded to BMcD, “I thought it was hocus pocus. I honestly didn’t… I’d never heard of it. Ummm, and the more I got into it, Ummmm, that’s, that’s a real thing. It’s a real thing, and, it’s scary.” BMcD then asks, “In what way?” Lebrato responds, “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.” He also stated, “Mr. Baldwin and Mr. Rozzi were on to something right away.”

As well, BMcD shared, “Yeah, and he said that you know, their defence strategy probably would have been a little bit different than Rozzi and Baldwin, but not too different. Oh, they were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing, alleging there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen’s home. It appears they were following a similar path, not identical, but a similar path.”

Personally, I don’t think what he said can be called, “walking it back.”

With regard to his statements about Gull’s fairness, well, in his experience thus far with her, he sees her as being fair. I have to wonder if he and Scremin had remained on the case, if his opinion of her “fairness” would have changed. How fair does he feel she is now that she denied having RA moved which occurred after they left the case? I really don’t think he would find that fair having witnessed what he did of RA’s situation in prison which he also commented on. As far as I know, he didn’t “walk that back.” JMHO

 

[Yemelyan]

Just wanted to bring forward this article originally published on Feb. 18th, 2017: Memorial grows as police continue search for Delphi girls' killer

"Friday evening, state police hustled back to the crime scene where friends Abby Williams and Libby German were found dead Tuesday. Undercover officers did some work and left about a half-hour later."

 

[Boxer]

For clarification, when you say the first photo of BG do you mean the sketch or the video?

It was a still from the video.

 

[Boxer]

From the interview conducted with BMcD by Court TV about her interview with Lebrato, I believe he was pretty clear, regardless of ”walking it back,” as you refer to it. I don’t see it as that. I see it as a statement of fact. It does not negate what he expressed prior to that statement.

When BMcD was asked how emphatic BL is in his belief that RA is innocent, BMcD’s response was that he believed not just that he is “not guilty, but that he’s innocent of these charges and not involved at all according to Bill Lebrato. That was a bit surprising to me..…and I pushed back on that a bit, ‘you’re a defence attorney that’s your job to say that’ .… He doesn’t say that very often and he’s never felt as strongly about a client’s innocence as he does in this case.” ”Yes, 100% innocent, he said”

When asked about the Odinist angle Lebrato responded to BMcD, “I thought it was hocus pocus. I honestly didn’t… I’d never heard of it. Ummm, and the more I got into it, Ummmm, that’s, that’s a real thing. It’s a real thing, and, it’s scary.” BMcD then asks, “In what way?” Lebrato responds, “Well, I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.” He also stated, “Mr. Baldwin and Mr. Rozzi were on to something right away.”

As well, BMcD shared, “Yeah, and he said that you know, their defence strategy probably would have been a little bit different than Rozzi and Baldwin, but not too different. Oh, they were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing, alleging there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen’s home. It appears they were following a similar path, not identical, but a similar path.”

Personally, I don’t think what he said can be called, “walking it back.”

With regard to his statements about Gull’s fairness, well, in his experience thus far with her, he sees her as being fair. I have to wonder if he and Scremin had remained on the case, if his opinion of her “fairness” would have changed. How fair does he feel she is now that she denied having RA moved which occurred after they left the case? I really don’t think he would find that fair having witnessed what he did of RA’s situation in prison which he also commented on. As far as I know, he didn’t “walk that back.” JMHO

What other crime is suspected of being Odinist?

 

[FromGermany1]

Conspiracy minded people are gullible people.

I would say: they are rather super distrustful people.

 

[Jade]

Because they believe their client, an innocent man has been sitting in jail being mistreated for over a year. On Jan 18, 2024 the D asked the SC to order a trial within 70 days.

Said every criminal defense attorney:

[…]

Performing is part of the job.

[…]

I would defend a client who I knew was guilty of horrific crimes. They have to be proved guilty. I've had cases where people were guilty as hell but they couldn't prove it. And if they can't prove it, he's not guilty. In that case, the person walks free. That's American justice.

[…]

Was I horrified by my client? In the murder arena, you just don't have that sort of mindset. You're thinking, I'm going to do the darndest I can to defend this person as well as I possibly can. You want to prevail. You're battling the other side. Whether or not he gets off is up to the jury.

[…]
Defending the indefensible? Lawyers on representing clients accused of nightmarish crimes


imo