Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

[vinayd]

This is exactly why JG is tired of them playing in her court room. I watched Defense Diaries last night and Motta called her "an old war horse" who doesn't remain stoic (not in her skillset) and speaks her mind. I like it. It could have been a sneak diss but I wouldn't mind if people thought I was nonsensical and a straight shooter. A real follower of the law IMOO.

Another interesting point they made was the defense could have stuck to the trial timeline. The State could run up the clock leaving the D to end it with no time to rebuttal witnesses. They also believed Baldwin requested the transcript so they can issue another order to get rid of JG. They said they should ask for the audio too.

 

[Emma Peel]

Exactly. And why would the Odinist white supremacist ritualists want to murder two young Caucasian girls anyway? And then why would the innocent neighborhood drug store guy go on to confess to killing those two young girls over 20 times. What are the staggering odds of this fantastical perfect storm occurring? Not very, IMO

I don't think it's necessarily a perfect storm.

The odds of an Odinist, racist or non-racist or any member of any other denomination, or even an atheist committing such a murder ... is really no different than for any brutal CSA murder.

These sickos commit a crime such as this for the same reason: they are CSA monsters.

The murderer pretending that Odin/Satan made them commit the sacrifice ... and staging it accordingly ... is just part of the self-satisfaction.

JMO

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

The 4 girls/witnesses saw RA going straight forward and seemingly "on a mission" from the FB in direction of the MHB. He seemed completely focused, as he didn't even know, how many girls he had seen (3, he thought). He didn't greet back, when one girl said a "hello" to him.
IMO/MOO, nobody would behave like that, if he didn't expect, that his (next) victims would be at the MHB at a certain time. If it wasn't clear from the start, that Abby and Libby would arrive and would have a reason going to/onto the MHB, why should RA behave like someone with a goal to fulfill? If he had waited for any x-arbitrary girl/woman to show up in the area, he would have rather ambled around, I imagine. But it seems, he had a plan and he had an exact time (with the help of someone, who would have known as the first). IMO

I always thought it was because those 3 girls were going in the opposite direction as him or opposite the MHB where he possible plan trap or corner a victim/s. Just speculating but perhaps as a result it reduced the chance of them being potential victims. On the other hand they were potential witnesses whose very presence could have been a source of irritation or frustration to BG/RA who intended to commit a crime and get away with it. Additionally, part of this plan could have also included being as negligible in people’s memories as possible so that even his clothes didn’t stick out to them.

Also, by saying hello to him that one girl could have drawn more attention to BG/RA and thus increased BG’s/RA’s risk of being noticed by het two friends. Possible annoyance may explain his rude response of giving her a dirty look which, with his creepy demeanor, made his presence more remarkable to the witnesses’ memories that afternoon.

Also, since it was a group of 3 older teenagers he may have possibly thought there was too big a risk of at least 1 girl getting away and getting help or perhaps all 3 fighting back even if took out his gun or knife. He may have thought it would be better to wait for other potential victims, such as those who were younger, smaller or alone who he could corner, overpower and intimidate into not fighting back so that he could maintain more control when he abducted and attacked them. He probably also wanted his victims to be as isolated to reduce the chances of any potential running or screaming from getting the attention of other visitors.

JMO and speculation and am open to the theory that he went there specifically to target Libby and Abby. I also think it is possible that RA used his local knowledge about the school day off and kids or minors liking to hang out at that park to his advantage to plan his crimes and his weapons in advance as well. Perhaps he was more like the Zodiac or GSK in this case in that his victims were chosen based on opportunity or perceived vulnerability. Also, if the CVS he worked at is as popular a place for kids to grab a snack or go to work at after school like the one in my town is, I can see the possibility that perhaps he overheard kids’ plans to go to the park that Monday. Just my own thought theory or thought though.

 

[Willow Knight]

Richard Allen stated he passed 3/4 girls when he arrived. Richard Allen told the investigator what time he arrived and the 3/4 girls AND Richard Allen confirm his arrival time. These girls never stated they saw two men dressed as twins.

Richard Allen state he walked then stood on the first platform, watching fish.

A witness only saw one person on the first platform, not two people dressed as twins.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

IMO
This whole Click conversation has been an exercise in... something?

In the beginning, I thought Click was a good cop, doing a good job.
Now I know he had every right to access the PCA,
All the information he brought to LE was from his own investigation.
The judge and the P allowed him and the D to discuss the 2023 phone data.

In the end, I still think Click was a good cop, doing a good job.
Five stars to him for being one of the many we can be proud of.

I’m not saying he was a bad cop. Please understand that. I think he just may have gotten overzealous and tunnel visioned and perhaps his ego got in the way of him taking a step back and applying logic and reason. IMO
Unfortunately I think he was used by defense to push their narrative and will be tossed aside like yesterday’s bird cage liner. JMO
And I hate that for him.
Perhaps if he had picked up the phone and spoken to the lead investigator in good faith his concerns would have been quelled and he would have never been entangled with defense.
Perhaps not, all I know now is that I am having a hard time with him not testifying that he was in employment by defense yet had access to defense discovery. It’s not a good look for a witness under oath JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think it's necessarily a perfect storm.

The odds of an Odinist, racist or non-racist or any member of any other denomination, or even an atheist committing such a murder ... is really no different than for any brutal CSA murder.

These sickos commit a crime such as this for the same reason: they are CSA monsters.

The murderer pretending that Odin/Satan made them commit the sacrifice ... and staging it accordingly ... is just part of the self-satisfaction.

JMO

I agree. I could definitely see someone staging a crime to blame Odinists...but not Odinists.

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree. I could definitely see someone staging a crime to blame Odinists...but not Odinists.

Yes, the purpose of staging is generally to create confusion and misdirect LE’s investigation away from the perp. No point in staging when it focuses on the identity of the perp/s.

That’s far more than even a signature - more like an autograph!

 

[katydid23]

IMO
This whole Click conversation has been an exercise in... something?

In the beginning, I thought Click was a good cop, doing a good job.
Now I know he had every right to access the PCA,
All the information he brought to LE was from his own investigation.
The judge and the P allowed him and the D to discuss the 2023 phone data.

In the end, I still think Click was a good cop, doing a good job.
Five stars to him for being one of the many we can be proud of.

"In the end, I still think Click was a good cop, doing a good job.
Five stars to him for being one of the many we can be proud of."


IMO, that remains to be seen.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, the purpose of staging is generally to create confusion and misdirect LE’s investigation away from the perp. No point in staging when it focuses on the identity of the perp/s.

That’s far more than even a signature - more like an autograph!

True.
On top of that, how could a gang of Odinists had been there that day, performed a ritual sacrifice in broad daylight, and no one reported seeing them, coming or going? And there were no footprints for multiple men at the crime scene? No DNA left by any of them while they performed this sacrifice?

Didn't happen, imo.

 

[snooptroop88]

The 4 girls/witnesses saw RA going straight forward and seemingly "on a mission" from the FB in direction of the MHB. He seemed completely focused, as he didn't even know, how many girls he had seen (3, he thought). He didn't greet back, when one girl said a "hello" to him.
IMO/MOO, nobody would behave like that, if he didn't expect, that his (next) victims would be at the MHB at a certain time. (snipped)

I always thought it was because those 3 girls were going in the opposite direction as him or opposite the MHB where he possible plan trap or corner a victim/s. Just speculating but perhaps as a result it reduced the chance of them being potential victims. On the other hand they were potential witnesses whose very presence could have been a source of irritation or frustration to BG/RA who intended to commit a crime and get away with it. Additionally, part of this plan could have also included being as negligible in people’s memories as possible so that even his clothes didn’t stick out to them.

Also, by saying hello to him that one girl could have drawn more attention to BG/RA and thus increased BG’s/RA’s risk of being noticed by het two friends. Possible annoyance may explain his rude response of giving her a dirty look which, with his creepy demeanor, made his presence more remarkable to the witnesses’ memories that afternoon.

(snipped)

It never occurred to me until I read these posts how strange it was that he had this attitude. Totally agreed. Nothing carefree or relaxed about him, and he's out on a hiking trail. Why?? If you're so captivated by your stock ticker (which you were watching on the phone we all hope you in fact had), why bother going out on the trails at all? What was the attraction for you that day on the trails? There must have been some draw, right? "Watching fish" is pretty carefree and relaxing, but you're not carefree and relaxed, and the draw evidently wasn't the fish, so what was it? I'm wondering also if he was making sure the witnesses didn't hear his voice. And we know one of the girls said he had something covering his mouth. Umm, face scarf that day? Why's that? Hiding your face? And maybe reluctant to let the witnesses hear your voice as well? And totally agreed, why so focused?

There are pretty much no voice samples for RA online. The YouTubers all had to scramble to get the same tiny little clip and analyze it. In light of how much there potentially could be, that in itself is a little odd. But his attitude that day with the group of girls amplifies it. The YouTubers got RL's voice. They've even got one of the D's Great Odinist Scare scapegoat's voice. But practically no voice clips at all for RA.

I already think he's guilty, but this is kind of the harpoon for me on this one. I know it seems such a little thing, but it's one little thing too many. And when you really think about it, it's incredibly telling he was like this that day, MOO.

 

[FromGermany1]

It never occurred to me until I read these posts how strange it was that he had this attitude. Totally agreed. Nothing carefree or relaxed about him, and he's out on a hiking trail. Why?? If you're so captivated by your stock ticker (which you were watching on the phone we all hope you in fact had), why bother going out on the trails at all? What was the attraction for you that day on the trails? There must have been some draw, right? "Watching fish" is pretty carefree and relaxing, but you're not carefree and relaxed, and the draw evidently wasn't the fish, so what was it? I'm wondering also if he was making sure the witnesses didn't hear his voice. And we know one of the girls said he had something covering his mouth. Umm, face scarf that day? Why's that? Hiding your face? And maybe reluctant to let the witnesses hear your voice as well? And totally agreed, why so focused?

There are pretty much no voice samples for RA online. The YouTubers all had to scramble to get the same tiny little clip and analyze it. In light of how much there potentially could be, that in itself is a little odd. But his attitude that day with the group of girls amplifies it. The YouTubers got RL's voice. They've even got one of the D's Great Odinist Scare scapegoat's voice. But practically no voice clips at all for RA.

I already think he's guilty, but this is kind of the harpoon for me on this one. I know it seems such a little thing, but it's one little thing too many. And when you really think about it, it's incredibly telling he was like this that day, MOO.

bbm
Agree so much.

 

[FromGermany1]

I agree. I could definitely see someone staging a crime to blame Odinists...but not Odinists.

IF the RA was threatened by Odinists, maybe it was because he had staged the CS this way and the O were outraged about it? Maybe they wanted RA to confess to his deed, so that their circle of men would be free of suspicion again?

 

[sunshineray]

IF the RA was threatened by Odinists, maybe it was because he had staged the CS this way and the O were outraged about it? Maybe they wanted RA to confess to his deed, so that their circle of men would be free of suspicion again?

Definitely another way to look at it. The sheer volume of confessions though doesn't lend itself to the RA confessed only because the Odinists threatened him. AJMO

 

[read67S]

How was the identity of the killer discovered?

 

[FromGermany1]

Definitely another way to look at it. The sheer volume of confessions though doesn't lend itself to the RA confessed only because the Odinists threatened him. AJMO

ONE confession would have been enough, yes.

 

[Emma Peel]

I agree. I could definitely see someone staging a crime to blame Odinists...but not Odinists.

Many interpretations are possible.

For example only, (because how can anyone know?), here's 2 possibilities:

1) murderer not in right mind - staged sacrifice out of the murder to absolve self and/or appeal to Odin. (this is a crazy person's thinking, but IMO, this murder was completely crazy). The staging was more of a signature: Message was: Purpose of this sacrifice was to honor Odin.
(This would still result in "blaming" Odinists. But the murderer - again - was in no state of mind to think that through/see the risk.)

2) murderer staged intentionally such that those finding the crime scene a understand some kind of "message". That staged "message" could mean any number of things ... such as:

Message was: Odinist sacrifice - blame Odinists (and not me).
or
Message was: don't mess with the Odin brotherhood (you/yours could be next).
or
Message was: initiation/pledge to the brotherhood is complete.

That's it for me on this issue; I feel the fact that the staging opened a line of investigation ... that could go many ways ... that FBI felt worthy of pursuing ... is the relevant underlining issue here. And clearly, the Defense wishes to use it in their arguments. Anything more than that - we wait for trial.

JMHO

 

[vinayd]

How was the identity of the killer discovered?

Morning and welcome! I think the easiest answer to this may be the PCA that I've linked below.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[Emma Peel]

Definitely another way to look at it. The sheer volume of confessions though doesn't lend itself to the RA confessed only because the Odinists threatened him. AJMO

The volume of confession engagement (esp. for an inmate held in solitary) is certainly impressive.

It will be interesting to understand who the confession witnesses are, and the conditions/context/timeframe under which they witnessed RA "confession(s)" and how they had the opportunity to engage w/RA.

We can't be sure, but as described, there seem to be quite a few different witnesses reporting "confessions", rather than a situation where one or two "trusted confidants" of RA reported.

It appears that a number of people were on alert and motivated to document/report confessions from RA. It will be interesting to learn how many were in the Odin brotherhood. Snitching on a fellow inmate has no negative result when that inmate is a child killer. Again, we'll find out more at trial.

JMHO

 

[sunshineray]

The volume of confession engagement (esp. for an inmate held in solitary) is certainly impressive.

It will be interesting to understand who the confession witnesses are, and the conditions/context/timeframe under which they witnessed RA "confession(s)" and how they had the opportunity to engage w/RA.

We can't be sure, but as described, there seem to be quite a few different witnesses reporting "confessions", rather than a situation where one or two "trusted confidants" of RA reported.

It appears that a number of people were on alert and motivated to document/report confessions from RA. It will be interesting to learn how many were in the Odin brotherhood. Snitching on a fellow inmate has no negative result when that inmate is a child killer. Again, we'll find out more at trial.

JMHO

In my opinion, Odinists have absolutely nothing to do with RA continuing to confess, in person, on phone calls or in writing. I in fact think it's ludicrous to think "Odinists" have such a strong effect on RA's continued confessing whatsoever.

Considering the sheer number of confessions, I find it extremely interesting and odd that RA's defense team has not worked out a plea deal. It makes me wonder if that's all based on notoriety and possible monetary beneits down the road the case may bring. Just my opinion, my thoughts.

 

[sunshineray]

Many interpretations are possible.

For example only, (because how can anyone know?), here's 2 possibilities:

1) murderer not in right mind - staged sacrifice out of the murder to absolve self and/or appeal to Odin. (this is a crazy person's thinking, but IMO, this murder was completely crazy). The staging was more of a signature: Message was: Purpose of this sacrifice was to honor Odin.
(This would still result in "blaming" Odinists. But the murderer - again - was in no state of mind to think that through/see the risk.)

2) murderer staged intentionally such that those finding the crime scene a understand some kind of "message". That staged "message" could mean any number of things ... such as:

Message was: Odinist sacrifice - blame Odinists (and not me).
or
Message was: don't mess with the Odin brotherhood (you/yours could be next).
or
Message was: initiation/pledge to the brotherhood is complete.

That's it for me on this issue; I feel the fact that the staging opened a line of investigation ... that could go many ways ... that FBI felt worthy of pursuing ... is the relevant underlining issue here. And clearly, the Defense wishes to use it in their arguments. Anything more than that - we wait for trial.

JMHO

"...that the FBI felt worthy of pursing"? What the Odinists in Indiana? I'm sorry, not understanding what was meant by this? Are you saying the FBI is pursuing investigations on that subject because of Libby and Abby's murders? I've never read that but would be interested if you have a link.