Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[sunshineray]

Thi quote below is included in the body of the crime scene description but there's no footnote.
The highlighting is mine.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

Part I - The Crime Scene
Page 30:
"The Defense has provided the court with
twelve crime scene and autopsy photographs,
marked as exhibits 5-16, as “confidential.” These
photographs support the descriptions provided
in the previous paragraphs."

I'm just curious, does that document contain a detailed description of the clothes the girls were wearing, the clothes that were disgarded in the creek and the ones that were missing altogether from the scene? TIA if you know.

 

[Inthedetails]

Glad to be useful for something! And something that's actually about the case and the girls, not the legal drama.

MOO

I hear ya! I stopped following the case because of the drama, figuring I'd pick it up again when the trial actually happens. But, I pop in from time to time.

Thanks again.

jmo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I may not be as up-to-date in this case as I would like and this may have been already dicussed but I have counted 3 different locations for Libby's shoes through the years.
1. As reported by Kelsi, in a driveway under the bridge before they were found.
2. As seen in a picture from the day the girls were found cought in a log in the river.
3. As reported in the defense Frank memorandum, under Abby's leg at the crime scene.
Sorry if I am late to the party with this question but I would really appreciate if any of you can clarify what is the reason to have 3 reported Libby's shoes found.
Thanks!

My opinion is there are errors in the crime scene description depicted in the franks.
I went through line by line last night and made a chart that I will have to try to remove permanently from my computer hard drive.

What they described as belonging to whom. Where things were found, the manner in which they were found were contradictory at times.

I think in their effort to sensationalize the crime scene and persuade the public this was a spooky Odin sacrifice ( instead of an attack by a sexual predator) they made errors in their statements.

The summation is that he abducted these girls at gunpoint and made them undress, and killed them separately. I believe at some point after the fatal wound to Abby she was redressed by Libby or RA or both by whatever clothes were easily accessible.
I think Libby was killed moments before RA fled the scene. RA then dumped some clothes in the creek and took others as souvenirs.
What clothes the victims were redressed in make no difference in the guilt of RA.
Perhaps it lends to motive or mindset of the predator during the crime it doesn’t change the outcome.
All my opinion.
thanks FG for posting this link. I was wrestling with the SCRIBD version last night and those ads were obnoxious.


FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

 

[sunshineray]

I found Footnotes on Page 30 in the copy you linked: This is the problem I have, the Defense claims things in the body of the document as fact and then footnotes of "speculation" or a "theory made by them not supported by any facts" follows.

Has anyone ever seen a FM even remotely written or worded in this manner? I have not.

<see emphasis mine>.

17
This stick configuration is a spot-on resemblance for the rune called “Hagal”. This rune is used to depict the word
‘Hail”. Therefore, the combination of the Hagal rune found on Abby and the Ansuz rune found on the tree when
combined would proclaim “Hail Odin.” This sentiment (“Hail Odin”) was one of the many easter eggs BH
left behind on his Facebook page on multiple posts. (We're basing BH's easter eggs on his FB as fact???)
18
The Defense team speculates that because of the lack of blood visible in the crime scene photos, especially
concerning Abby, that the murderers may have saved the blood to be used in future rituals. This is merely a theory
admittedly not supported by any facts currently in possession of the Defense, but a theory that would certainly
explain the lack of expected blood at the crime scene.
19
The F resembles a rune called “Ansuz” which stands for “Odin”. Again, when paired with the Hagal rune found
on Abby, the combination would proclaim: “Hail Odin.” This “F” symbol was the same “F” symbol found in many
of BH's Facebook pages which will be attached, including H’s creepy self-drawn illustration in which a red “F” rune was found at the base of a tree where a man appeared to be sacrificed on a tree.

All JMO

It's just a remarkable piece. I'll only elaborate to say, I wonder who exactly, wrote what exactly, in it??

 

[MiniMoo]

I'm just curious, does that document contain a detailed description of the clothes the girls were wearing, the clothes that were disgarded in the creek and the ones that were missing altogether from the scene? TIA if you know.

I read from Pages 1-Pages 130 and it does mention clothes and nudity earlier on - even the shoe and mobile phone under one girl. Just maybe not in such detail although it does go into the two bras and how clean Abby was including the clothes. No blood on them.

Photos were being provided as exhibits, however.

 

[m00c0w]

I may not be as up-to-date in this case as I would like and this may have been already dicussed but I have counted 3 different locations for Libby's shoes through the years.
1. As reported by Kelsi, in a driveway under the bridge before they were found.
2. As seen in a picture from the day the girls were found cought in a log in the river.
3. As reported in the defense Frank memorandum, under Abby's leg at the crime scene.
Sorry if I am late to the party with this question but I would really appreciate if any of you can clarify what is the reason to have 3 reported Libby's shoes found.
Thanks!

Can you provide a citation for point 1? IIRC, Kelsi actually stated that the creek was being searched when someone found the shoe and called up to her and described the shoe, which she then confirmed was Libby’s. I believe this was covered in multiple places including the DTH podcast, chapter 1.

MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

After reading that Final Draft...

I had no idea about the ritual argument nor about the branches and twigs on the girls until I saw it here when skimming through and then in that draft in more detail. It was there, however, that I really did pay better attention.

I still feel the perpetrator did it all alone.

Not just that, but to be so meticulous and thorough - he has either done it before or practiced using animals or something. Mind you, if he is a skilled hunter that could explain a thing or two. But to be in a place that long (1 hour and 17 minutes I think I read) with two murdered victims leaving next to zero DNA evidence behind isn't usually the trademark of someone new to killing.

 

[Willow Knight]

I absolutely do NOT think RA was carrying extra clothes.

Just wondering where they came from.

IMO MOO

I didn't think Richard Allen was carrying extra clothes either, at first. But the more I think about it, it wouldn't surprise me anymore. The actions carried out that day are evil, perverted, and planned. IMO Camera, tripod, extra clothes. Possible IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm just curious, does that document contain a detailed description of the clothes the girls were wearing, the clothes that were disgarded in the creek and the ones that were missing altogether from the scene? TIA if you know.

This is what the FM Page 29 of 136 said about Abby: BBM

Abby was fully clothed. In fact, Abby was dressed in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans. No blood appeared on Abby’s clothing, meaning that she was likely murdered while naked and then dressed by the murderers after she expired and after the blood had stopped spilling from her neck.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

 

[grannygates]

I remembered there was confusion over what Libby was wearing, how everyone thought it was sweatpants and tie dye t shirt and the jeans surprised everyone. I found this old tweet from Fox59 with photos of what they were reported to be wearing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/831560713462222848

 

[MiniMoo]

I remembered there was confusion over what Libby was wearing, how everyone thought it was sweatpants and tie dye t shirt and the jeans surprised everyone. I found this old tweet from Fox59 with photos of what they were wearing.

View attachment 516538

https://twitter.com/x/status/831560713462222848

So, these are definitely the clothes.

 

[grannygates]

So, these are definitely the clothes.

Oh, I should have wrote that they were “reported to be” wearing. I wasn’t there, of course, so I don’t know for certain. (I edited my post) I just hope an investigator looked into it because it’s odd.

 

[mrjitty]

Has anyone ever seen a FM even remotely written or worded in this manner? I have not.

RSBM. This is why I found the recent Murder Sheet podcast so fascinating - was the MW strategy actually an attempt to build a supporter base by use of leaks and wild speculation in motions?

<see emphasis mine>.

The Defense team speculates that because of the lack of blood visible in the crime scene photos, especially
concerning Abby, that the murderers may have saved the blood to be used in future rituals. This is merely a theory admittedly not supported by any facts currently in possession of the Defense, but a theory that would certainly explain the lack of expected blood at the crime scene.

Like this is just wild IMO. Why on earth would a theory not supported by any facts be included in a Franks motion - when the speculated theory has nothing at all to do with the relief sought?

Where does this theory even come from?

MOO

 

[TTF14]

RSBM. This is why I found the recent Murder Sheet podcast so fascinating - was the MW strategy actually an attempt to build a supporter base by use of leaks and wild speculation in motions?



Like this is just wild IMO. Why on earth would a theory not supported by any facts be included in a Franks motion - when the speculated theory has nothing at all to do with the relief sought?

Where does this theory even come from?

MOO

I'm guessing the theory came from how the crime scene was staged to look like heathens/pagans committed the crime.

IMO MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

RSBM. This is why I found the recent Murder Sheet podcast so fascinating - was the MW strategy actually an attempt to build a supporter base by use of leaks and wild speculation in motions?



Like this is just wild IMO. Why on earth would a theory not supported by any facts be included in a Franks motion - when the speculated theory has nothing at all to do with the relief sought?

Where does this theory even come from?

MOO

From Planet Mars or AB's fanfic mind IMO. I think this is yet another reason Judge Gull is so disgusted with R&B.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

From Planet Mars or AB's fanfic mind IMO. I think this is yet another reason Judge Gull is so disgusted with R&B.

JMO

That content was clearly not written for her IMO, so it would be pretty obvious to her that it was an end run around the gag order. No surprise that when the crime scene photos then leaked she put 2+2 together. Maybe she was wrong, but you can see why she would have thought that.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

That content was clearly not written for her IMO, so it would be pretty obvious to her that it was an end run around the gag order. No surprise that when the crime scene photos then leaked she put 2+2 together. Maybe she was wrong, but you can see why she would have thought that.

MOO

What do you mean she put 2 and 2 together?

 

[Justice101]

After reading that Final Draft...

I had no idea about the ritual argument nor about the branches and twigs on the girls until I saw it here when skimming through and then in that draft in more detail. It was there, however, that I really did pay better attention.

I still feel the perpetrator did it all alone.

Not just that, but to be so meticulous and thorough - he has either done it before or practiced using animals or something. Mind you, if he is a skilled hunter that could explain a thing or two. But to be in a place that long (1 hour and 17 minutes I think I read) with two murdered victims leaving next to zero DNA evidence behind isn't usually the trademark of someone new to killing.

The perpetrator had LOTS of time. If you look at the Hughes video timeline from the PCA, wasn't there like 75 to 90 minutes between the BG video abduction and when BG was again seen out on the road heading towards the Harvester.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I remembered there was confusion over what Libby was wearing, how everyone thought it was sweatpants and tie dye t shirt and the jeans surprised everyone. I found this old tweet from Fox59 with photos of what they were reported to be wearing.

View attachment 516538

https://twitter.com/x/status/831560713462222848

The flyer put out during the search also said Libby was wearing sweatpants.
That information had to have come from KG and BP who saw them last. It was important information at that time so I think it’s correct.
Did Libby change clothes? If she changed in the car on the way to the trails or had a backpack with a change of clothes in it, KG would have known and no way, in my opinion would she withhold that information from LE with her sister missing.
So, was Abby half dressed in jeans? Probably, Gray Hughes saw the leaked crime scene photo and said that’s what he saw.
The question then is, are those Libby’s jeans?
I 100% do not believe anyone else was at the crime scene but Libby, Abby, and their killer(probably RA). But I 55% do not believe those are Libby’s jeans and I have no notions or ideas as to how that occurred. One possible explanation is I’m just wrong and I can except that, but it still won’t make sense to me.

 

[TTF14]

But I 55% do not believe those are Libby’s jeans and I have no notions or ideas as to how that occurred. One possible explanation is I’m just wrong and I can except that, but it still won’t make sense to me.

By "not Libby's jeans" do you mean you think they are Abby's jeans? Or some unknown person?