Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[TTF14]

I'm pretty sure if one of NM's investigators was leaking discovery to random internet sleuths

Like Fig Solves?

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Ri None of this was public info, so MS allege the messages do in fact indicate disclosure of the discovery to 3rd parties. i.e exactly what MW was apparently also doing. The difference is this time, we have the messages, whereas currently, police are still trying to crack his iPhone.

I don't think I knew this. Do you have a theory about why they'd still be trying to crack his iPhone, especially considering he essentially accepted a plea in the form of the diversion program?

IMO MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Like Fig Solves?

IMO MOO

Sure, if there's actual evidence of this. Is there? Or just more speculation?

 

[m00c0w]

I don't think I knew this. Do you have a theory about why they'd still be trying to crack his iPhone, especially considering he essentially accepted a plea in the form of the diversion program?

IMO MOO

Additional charges are always possible.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Listening to the episode now but I hope before it ends I learn that MH informed Lebrato and Scremin in November 2023 about what he did in terms of violating the protective order by sharing the aforementioned information with that group of YouTubers and podcasters.

That way Lebrato and Scremin could escalate that info to JG and the prosecution and later the following year to AB and BR.

However, considering that MH is still working for the DT I doubt it since it is my impression that months ago Lebrato and Scremin would both have reported him immediately and it would have addressed it with JG and the prosecution months ago in a hearing or such.

Not sure what exactly MH was thinking. Not only did MH have access to paralegals and other staff and team members working with DT to share this information without violating the protective order but he nearly sabotaged or put at risk the integrity of the case and the process to obtaining both justice for Libby and Abby and fair trial for RA. After all the shifts and changes that RA and his fellow Defense team members were already experiencing at that time why take that chance?

No way he logically thought that the Odinists would annihilate all of them. It’s not like they are being added to the Clinton’s’ 2016 Hit List or being forced to go the depths of the Atlantic in a mini-submarine operated by a Dell keyboard. They are trying a criminal court case like normal.

Also, AS saying she knows how BR and AB thinks gives me the impression that she probably feels that way because of the insight she unfortunately gained from MH as she read through their filed court documents and paid attention to any interviews or press conferences they gave as they prepared for trial. Perhaps thanks to that and particularly MH she feels like at this point she can predict how they will respond to prosecutions motions and strategy as they manage their own research, strategize and prepare themselves and their team for trial without ever really talking to them herself directly. JMO

After everything they have been through why put themselves, RA, Libby’s and Abby’s loved ones, JG, the trial and their team’s members, staff, expert witnesses, time, money, and resources at risk again for a repeat of their Fall 2023 experience? I do find it find somewhat hard to believe they or any rational DT would again, IMO.

And at one point AS said she'd been talking to AB all day...THAT, if true, needs some explaining... immediately, IMO

 

[TTF14]

And at one point AS said she'd been talking to AB all day...THAT, if true, needs some explaining... immediately, IMO

what was the timeframe? Was it when they were off the case or was it when they were representing RA?

ETA: Oops, this was supposed to be a quote of and response to @sunshineray's post.

 

[sunshineray]

RSBBM

Rational would be the key word here. A DT working to provide a vigorous and competent defense would not have to stoop to the level Rozzi and Baldwin have done from the first day they were appointed. That tells me all I need to know about their <lack of> character.

IMO

I think maybe this DT has confused being zealous with being a zealot. Thinking that they're acting with high energy enthusiasm for their client but are really being fanatically amoral in their actions? MO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think maybe this DT has confused being zealous with being a zealot. Thinking that they're acting with high energy enthusiasm for their client but are really being fanatically amoral in their actions? MO

You're giving them more of the benefit of doubt than I am capable of SSR.

They have proved to deceive from the start and put out that ridiculous, PR Statement the day after they specifically told Judge Gull they didn't intend to try the case in the Media, no need for a gag order.

Then they make the very sneaky planned move in getting the Franks Memo out around the gag order, then leaking photos and other defense info., etc, etc. Now these allegations of association with the Internet cranks and The Doo Process Gang from the MS. I have never seen a Defense attorney in any case I've followed stoop to this level of misconduct.

When does one too many coincidences become one too many? I think they are derelict in their duties as Defense Attorneys in this case, and I think they've done it for their 15 minutes of fortune and fame with RA being just a tool for them to use.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

If a defense attorney has withdrawn or been withdrawn, he has no authority to have or retain discovery. If he is further disseminating sensitive information by giving access to anyone to view, copy, screenshot, memorize, that goes beyond the pale. Silent endorsement of strategic viewing, closed door (virtual) meetings -- this is like a bad spy novel. Zero control over where it goes from there -- reckless and unethical. But has all the markings of intentionality.

Fear of Odinists? Patently absurd. Fear of being boxed out permanently? Maybe.

What's it say, if the only way to prevent a guilty verdict is to resort to dirty pool?

I hope there's a full investigation into these breaches. Officers of the court have a DUTY to protect sensitive materials from snookery.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

You're giving them more of the benefit of doubt than I am capable of SSR.

They have proved to deceive from the start and put out that ridiculous, PR Statement the day after they specifically told Judge Gull they didn't intend to try the case in the Media, no need for a gag order.

Then they make the very sneaky planned move in getting the Franks Memo out around the gag order, then leaking photos and other defense info., etc, etc. Now these allegations of association with the Internet cranks and The Doo Process Gang from the MS. I have never seen a Defense attorney in any case I've followed stoop to this level of misconduct.

When does one too many coincidences become one too many? I think they are derelict in their duties as Defense Attorneys in this case, and I think they've done it for their 15 minutes of fortune and fame with RA being just a tool for them to use.

JMO

I think it's worse than this. That is if worse is possible.

It appears they're willing to swing loose with the rules whether representing RA or not representing him. Almost like selling discovery... to a select group, expecting them to present it. What's the end game to that? I don't know, but it sure smells bad.

Seems like some folks need to answer to some things. Under oath.

If getting caught delays this trial further, that's on them.

And if there's an explanation that smells less bad, same remedy. Put them in the witness box and ask for it, under threat of perjury.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think I knew this. Do you have a theory about why they'd still be trying to crack his iPhone, especially considering he essentially accepted a plea in the form of the diversion program?

IMO MOO

Because other's culpability needs to be established? Right is right and wrong is wrong. MO

 

[sunshineray]

And at one point AS said she'd been talking to AB all day...THAT, if true, needs some explaining... immediately, IMO

what was the timeframe? Was it when they were off the case or was it when they were representing RA?

ETA: Oops, this was supposed to be a quote of and response to @sunshineray's post.

Does it matter? I don't see how it would negate former defense from breaching their NDAs about the protection of discovery. MO

 

[TTF14]

Does it matter? I don't see how it would negate former defense from breaching their NDAs about the protection of discovery. MO

There's literally no evidence that Baldwin and Rozzi did anything during the time they were not even representing Richard Allen. A couple of podca$ster$ who said someone who works in their office did something is not evidence of even that person doing it, much less two other people who weren't even on the case.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

There's literally no evidence that Baldwin and Rozzi did anything during the time they were not even representing Richard Allen. A couple of podca$ster$ who said someone who works in their office did something is not evidence of even that person doing it, much less two other people who weren't even on the case.

IMO MOO

I very much disagree that there's literally no evidence and feel that's why opening phones leads to better investigations...what's there to hide? Hope they subpoena AS's phone records too. AJMO

 

[katydid23]

There's literally no evidence that Baldwin and Rozzi did anything during the time they were not even representing Richard Allen. A couple of podca$ster$ who said someone who works in their office did something is not evidence of even that person doing it, much less two other people who weren't even on the case.

IMO MOO

The evidence is in the photocopied messages. This isn't just the 'word' of the MS podcasters. They have the receipts and the whistleblower who handed them over.

And B and R were always still involved in the case. They refused to relinquish and took it to SCOIN. So they were still part of RA's case, and they were actively associating with all these riff raff, trying to leak certain ideas and narratives to Social Media platforms.

Just look at the narrative this 'leak' was about---'the rogue pings of Libby's phone which could prove RA's innocence.'

Then we just recently had this exact same narrative in the most recent Motion filed by the DT---the exculpatory Pings re-emerge, just like the receipts from MS described.

 

[TTF14]

I very much disagree that there's literally no evidence and feel that's why opening phones leads to better investigations...what's there to hide? Hope they subpoena AS's phone records too. AJMO

I'm not sure what you mean by opening phones leads to better investigations....was that a typo or am I being obtuse?

 

[TTF14]

The evidence is in the photocopied messages. This isn't just the 'word' of the MS podcasters. They have the receipts and the whistleblower who handed them over.

And B and R were always still involved in the case. They refused to relinquish and took it to SCOIN. So they were still part of RA's case, and they were actively associating with all these riff raff, trying to leak certain ideas and narratives to Social Media platforms.

Just look at the narrative this 'leak' was about---'the rogue pings of Libby's phone which could prove RA's innocence.'

Then we just recently had this exact same narrative in the most recent Motion filed by the DT---the exculpatory Pings re-emerge, just like the receipts from MS described.

It's still their word without seeing the evidence. How do we know they aren't leaving parts out? Context matters. I'm not fans of theirs, so I can't blindly trust their motive$ and would like to see the texts in their entirety. Do they owe me this? No. But I can't believe them without seeing it with my own eyes.

IMO MOO

 

[katydid23]

It's still their word without seeing the evidence. How do we know they aren't leaving parts out? Context matters. I'm not fans of theirs, so I can't blindly trust their motive$ and would like to see the texts in their entirety. Do they owe me this? No. But I can't believe them since without seeing it with my own eyes.

IMO MOO

Ok, but you do agree that there ARE some messages between this cast of characters discussing these subjects? ----You think they may be out of context or something, but the group chat conversations existed?

 

[sunshineray]

The evidence is in the photocopied messages. This isn't just the 'word' of the MS podcasters. They have the receipts and the whistleblower who handed them over.

And B and R were always still involved in the case. They refused to relinquish and took it to SCOIN. So they were still part of RA's case, and they were actively associating with all these riff raff, trying to leak certain ideas and narratives to Social Media platforms.

Just look at the narrative this 'leak' was about---'the rogue pings of Libby's phone which could prove RA's innocence.'

Then we just recently had this exact same narrative in the most recent Motion filed by the DT---the exculpatory Pings re-emerge, just like the receipts from MS described.

The BG was not on the bridge data and the girls were taken offsite and brought back pings is all part of the DT's plan of attack, all propagated by youtubers/SM...so D's hands are clean.

AB says in an email to MS I don't know AS, yet AS says she's been talking with AB all day. Needs investigation immediately. Maybe MH will wind up being a whistleblower himself? AJMO

 

[m00c0w]

And at one point AS said she'd been talking to AB all day...THAT, if true, needs some explaining... immediately, IMO

what was the timeframe? Was it when they were off the case or was it when they were representing RA?

ETA: Oops, this was supposed to be a quote of and response to @sunshineray's post.

I’m also willing to believe some of these… interesting individuals… are just making things up to get cred inside their group. I’m less likely to believe, for instance, that AS spent all day talking directly to an actual defense attorney than I am to believe a defense investigator who thinks he’s doing the right thing because of the Odinist conspiracy is slipping discovery to some influencers to help fight the good fight.

JMO