Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[arielilane]

July 30, 2024, Day 1 pre-trial hearing


Up early in Delphi. First of three days of pre-trial hearings today in the case of Richard Allen, charged in the 2017 murders of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German.





Heads up: Only after we’re out of the hearing. No phones, no electronics powered up in courthouse on this case.


Lunch break takeaways in Delphi … 1/


Defense team argued that arrangements have been made to move Richard Allen from Wabash Valley prison to Cass County Jail, modifying safekeeping order from Nov 2022. Carroll sheriff says he’s ok w/that, as long as Allen isn’t returned to jail in Delphi. 2/


Judge Gull takes safekeeping motion under advisement. 3/


Next: Defense asks to compel prosecutor to hand over evidence w/better organization of 26TB of case files. Prosecutor says he’s giving Allen’s attys what they need, even ‘spoon feeding’ them, but they want things prosecutors don’t have. Judge takes that under advisement, too 4/


After lunch schedule: A motion from Allen’s team to dismiss. Later this week: motions to suppress statements Allen made, prosecution’s list of words and phrases that should be banned from the trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. 5/


Of note: This morning’s hearing, scheduled to start at 10 am, was delayed until after 11 am. Judge Gull said she didn’t anticipate the construction between Fort Wayne and Delphi.
Court session resumes at 1:30 pm.

Also of note: No phones/cameras/electronics at all allowed 6/


Cx: session resumes at 1:20 pm


Afternoon session...


Here’s an afternoon wrap from Delphi, in the first of three days of pretrial hearings on murder charges against Richard Allen, charged in 2017 murders of Delphi teens Libby German and Abby Williams 1/


Allens attorneys argued to dismiss the case, building off what they called intentional efforts ignore a trail that led to involvement, they say, by a local man who was involved in ritualistic killings in name of Odin. 2/


Atty Andrew Baldwin called it ‘an extreme remedy, but that Allen was saddled with charges that should have aimed to someone else who police didn’t adequately investigate before clearing. Prosecutor: no evidence to back those claims, warrant dismissal. 2/



Judge Fran Gull took matter under advisement. Hearings continue in murder case Wednesday. Richard Allen, dressed in prison orange, didn’t speak during today’s hearings. He mouthed, ‘I love you,’ to his wife and mother in the gallery on the way out. 3/


More details later at http://basedinlafayette.com 4/



July 31, 2024, Day 2 pretrial hearing


Day 2 of 3 of pretrial hearings in the Delphi murders case.
A lunch break summary. 1/



The day is devoted to a motion to suppress statements and confessions Richard Allen made to inmates, prison staff and his family while in custody, since being charged in Oct 2022 in the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. 2/


Defense case revolves around Allen’s conditions at Westville Correctional Facility, a prison where he was sent for safekeeping shortly after his arrest. Attys are lining up an argument that the move kept Allen from due process, right to counsel, 5th amendment rights. 2/


During two hours on the stand, former warden at Westville testified that Allen confessed to him, saying he’d murdered the girls, calling them by name. Prosecution suggests that the situation involves 61 incriminating statements over two months offered by Allen. 3/


Judge Fran Gull takes under advisement a motion from the prosecution to dismiss the effort to suppress Allen’s statements. She expresses concern about defense arguments that ‘state actors’ were involved in generating statements, particularly when made to his wife and family. 4/


Hearing resumes at 1 pm. 5/


At one point, Richard Allen found Jesus and tried to make things right with God by confessing more than 60 times to the Delphi murders of Abby & Libby, an Indiana State Police detective testified today.

Allen's defense team looks to toss it all Details:

Details: https://basedinlafayette.com/p/isp-detective-allen-confessed-60 r=2fe&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web



Long day wraps in Carroll Circuit Court. Among the highlights in motion to suppress statements made by Richard Allen about the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. A few highlights: 1/



An ISP detective says Allen, in phone calls and video from his prison cell, confessed to family, guards and inmates “60-plus times … and that’s being conservative.”Says two-month string of confessions came in 2023 after Allen says he found Jesus. 2/



Defense attys press questions about how confessions were inconsistent and came during terrible conditions in Westville Correctional Facility unit where Allen was held in ‘a prison inside a prison.’ Said conditions made him crack physically, mentally. 3/


Final arguments come Thursday morning to start Day 3 of pretrial hearings in the case.
More tonight at http://basedinlafayette.com 4/





August 1, 2024, Day 3 pretrial hearing


Back for Day 3 of pretrial hearings in the Delphi murders case.
Here’s a look at the arguments from Day 2: ISP detective: Allen confessed ’60-plus’ times to Delphi murders.
Defense looks to toss it all: https://basedinlafayette.com/p/isp-detective-allen-confessed-60




Today’s hearings concentrate on prosecution motion to ban some words and phrases, mainly tied to the defense team’s third party theory of a Norse pagan ritualistic sacrifice. Testimony this morning includes an expert who called the scene “textbook.” 2/


Prosecutor claps back, saying the expert on ritualistic murders was working only with info spoon fed to her by Richard Allen’s attys. Expected this afternoon: what detectives know, and testimony of ex-wife of one man the defense says might have played a role in Odinist plot. 3/



Long day, 11 1/2 hours, in court just ended in Carroll County.A few highlights for now … 4/

Judge Gull ended session siding w/defense, agreeing to vacate a safekeeping order that had Richard Allen in a state prison since November 2022. Back in custody of Carroll County. Sheriff says tonight he’s not ready to say where Allen is going. Cass Co Jail past few days. 5/


Much of the day was given to prosecution’s effort to limit certain phrases from the trial, mainly revolving around defense’s third party, Odinist suspects theory. In play: more data from Libby German’s cellphone, alibis and brutal blood pattern descriptions from the scene. 6/




More later tonight (it’ll be late, friends) at http://basedinlafayette.com





@davebangert

 

[Inthedetails]

Realistically - if a juror starts to think on their own that some other guy may have done the crime, regardless of the evidence, what stops them from voting that RA is not guilty? I know it is not supposed to work this way, but what would stop someone arguing to the rest of the jury that it *could* have been someone else? I understand they're told instructions by the judge, but again, what stops them?

What stops a jury member from not following the rules? Honesty, integrity, commitment to the rule of law we have in our nation, plus influence of other jury members who are honest, have integrity, and commitment to the rule of law.

jmo

 

[acehard]

It's very strange that he confessed 61 times and still pleading not-guilty. If his wife and mother say they forgive him, will he change his plea to guilty? Somethings not adding up here.

 

[grannygates]

Respect for your opinion.

However, this would be my question if the man in the video is not the one who uttered, “Guys, down the hill.”

If the man whom we call BG didn’t say it but we can hear it, then this other man who did say it had to be right in the vicinity. Why hasn’t this BG man come forth?

He has to be right out of the frame, this other man, since we can hear him, so why hasn’t this BG man, who was RIGHT THERE and had to hear someone say those words to two young girls who were later found slaughtered…

WHY hasn’t he told the police immediately after A and L were found the very next day that he had passed by a man, whom you may believe isn’t shown saying “G, DTH,” with the information that he saw and heard a man say that to two girls and give a description of the man he heard telling them that, the exact time that they were near each other, and so on?

Or, if the one we SEE on video did not say those words and the other man nearby did, then I would presume BG was an accomplice if he didn’t race to tell LE the moment he heard about the girls.

I don’t believe that is the case, though. I believe BG said it and is the culprit. In my opinion that is also RA.

JMO

Based on the emails between the FBI and DC, they refer to having at least 6 suspects within days of the murders. There’s a lot of options.

And with all due respect, I think that this case will have everyone second-guessing whether they would be willing to come forward as a witness.

Even if this man was completely innocent and not involved whatsoever, if he came forward, no one would believe him. He would be in jail right now or convicted. People are convicting him based upon appearing an image and are completely unwilling to believe that this could ever possibly be someone that was simply caught in the background of a video.. There’s no way he would come forward even if he was completely innocent. MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Because he is worried about his wife and mother rejecting him.

My hunch, which is speculation only, not a fact, is there is something more personal that his wife and mom don't want him to talk about. The info that detectives have talked to his daughter's friends is a hint (not a fact) that RA has some sort of history that perhaps the family has kept hidden and wants to keep hidden.

It's possible that RA is ready to come clean with all of it and release that burden of shame, but his mom and wife don't want him to.

Speculation only. jmopinion at the moment

 

[arielilane]

Justice for Abby & Libby

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819353422245642396

https://twitter.com/x/status/1814376350876131562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1814088394701500704

 

[Ravenmoon]

So, I am curious about the video.
It is supposed to be 43 seconds long ( I think)
We have only been allowed to see about 2 seconds, at most.
The defense doesn't want the video to be presented to the jury.
Is there something on the video, perhaps BG's hand, a view of the gun, etc. And whatever tha could be, is directly associated with Richard Allen.
Maybe his hand has a scar or a finger once broken that shows predominantly... maybe the gun has something unique?

If that is possible, would it change anyone's mind about him being on the bridge with the girls?

If it's not anything like that, does anyone have a theory about why we haven't seen it, or why the defense doesn't want the jury to see it?

 

[Inthedetails]

So, I am curious about the video.
It is supposed to be 43 seconds long ( I think)
We have only been allowed to see about 2 seconds, at most.
The defense doesn't want the video to be presented to the jury.
Is there something on the video, perhaps BG's hand, a view of the gun, etc. And whatever tha could be, is directly associated with Richard Allen.
Maybe his hand has a scar or a finger once broken that shows predominantly... maybe the gun has something unique?

If that is possible, would it change anyone's mind about him being on the bridge with the girls?

If it's not anything like that, does anyone have a theory about why we haven't seen it, or why the defense doesn't want the jury to see it?

My understanding is LE didn't release more of the video to the public because it contains info only the perp would know (such as a gun). They released only enough for the public to come forward with tips about the voice.

I think they will play all of it at trial.

jmo

edited to add: and tips about his looks, not just the voice. The public didn't need the whole video to see what he looked and sounded like.

 

[ClearAhead]

Realistically - if a juror starts to think on their own that some other guy may have done the crime, regardless of the evidence, what stops them from voting that RA is not guilty? I know it is not supposed to work this way, but what would stop someone arguing to the rest of the jury that it *could* have been someone else? I understand they're told instructions by the judge, but again, what stops them?

I think you’re looking at it a little bit backwards. The jury is instructed to solely focus on if the evidence presented by the P proves the defendant to be guilty BARD. If it does “guilty”!

But if during deliberations jurors vote “not guilty” that indicates they don’t think the state has proved the defendant is guilty BARD…..indicating someone else must be responsible for committing that crime and the wrong guy got arrested and charged.

MOO

 

[MollyDDD]

That would likely come out during jury deliberations. If a jury member expressed that he was using his own non-evidence based opinion to form a verdict, the jury foreman should alert the judge.

Not a lawyer, this is my understanding though, from having served on a jury for a criminal trial.

jmo

It only takes is one person’s doubt. Whether or not they have to explain their reasoning to the other jurors or to the judge, while I doubt that, I am not positive.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I assume he could just do this himself without need of his lawyers? Like, what would stop him standing up in court and just blurting out what he wants to?

I thought about that, too.
Just a thought/ opinion:
His family in the courtroom could be the reason.
They have not wanted to hear his confessions and have told him that he has been brainwashed into believing he is the killer.
It sounds like his biggest fear is that his family won't love him anymore and that they will abandon him.
It's my opinion that is keeping him from blurting out his guilt in the courtroom.

All just my opinion

 

[grannygates]

So, I am curious about the video.
It is supposed to be 43 seconds long ( I think)
We have only been allowed to see about 2 seconds, at most.
The defense doesn't want the video to be presented to the jury.
Is there something on the video, perhaps BG's hand, a view of the gun, etc. And whatever tha could be, is directly associated with Richard Allen.
Maybe his hand has a scar or a finger once broken that shows predominantly... maybe the gun has something unique?

If that is possible, would it change anyone's mind about him being on the bridge with the girls?

If it's not anything like that, does anyone have a theory about why we haven't seen it, or why the defense doesn't want the jury to see it?

I would hope that if there was actually identifying information on that video, that the law-enforcement would’ve released it to the public to help people narrow down the search for the suspect. I think that they just straight up don’t want people to convict a person based on maybe possible looking similar to an man in the background of a video. I’m sorry I’m being very repetitive but IMO it’s not evidence of being involved in the crime. MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I've lost track of initials - is DG the father of LG? Or can someone pls give me a hint as to who DG might be? Was this maybe a typo and maybe meant to have been DC?

Darn. My sincere apologies.
That should say DC for Doug Carter!

 

[photographer4]

I think Libby's video is powerful evidence which is why the DT wants so desperately to suppress it. But seeing him right there, alone with them, moments before they are never heard from again is very important evidence. And if it is true that one of the girls is heard saying 'GUN' during the audio portion, that will be very damning. IMO

I do agree it is very important to the case! I guess I'm just over here hoping that the State can show how they arrived at some random BG = RA, BARD and here is why.

 

[Megnut]

The D, in identifying the video, called it the one with Abby and supposed suspect (my paraphrase). Some of us l9ng suspected that the Abby had been clipped out of the video, which is why it was so truncated. IMO LE wanted to show the public as clear and close up an image as they could get without showing how close he was, including how fast he was gaining on them.

IMO RA's phone alone will convict him. If he had it with him like he said, it'll show exactly where he was and for how long. If there was evidence that he and his phone left at 1:30, we wouldn't be here and the D would have provided that as an actual defense.

If RA's phone isn't at the bridge at the time in question, how was he looking at a stock ticker?

RA likely used his phone at SOME point that day. In keeping with predictable habits and any anomalies. Was it powered off or in airplane mode or resting idle at certain points? Why? Anything RA could account for? Explain? Explain away?

If there's a suspicious black hole, what times bracket it? What time did he last operate it, what time did he resume? Who, when, where was his last confirmed location (at home, at work, at a store) and who, when, where was he seen again? Was his absence noted by anyone? Or was he, for instance, off of work that day and family out of town? Who would notice if RA disappeared for an hour and a half on a Monday afternoon? Anyone?

The totality of circumstantial evidence will tell a story.

Not every man who wears jeans and a blue jacket was at MHB thst day. Just one.

Not every man said he was looking at a specific site on his phone at MHB that day. If he can't produce a phone that confirms that, why not?

Many men might have the same kind of gun and similar bullets. But not every man. And so far, none (other than the one) whom LE can place at MHB.

The man seen walking, muddy, looking like he'd been in a fight, that either consistent with RA's confirmed timeline or it's not. By which I mean that if RA left at 3:30 and his phone data supported that, either with him or once he reunited with it and it was located back at his home, with all indication that he was back with it, then is it likely he was the man seen walking away? It's actually not impossible. He lived close enough that he could have gone home and returned before being seen, only difference being not the first time but the second time he left there.

The murder weapon, if it has now been revealed, did he have a habit of carrying one? Standard? Hooking? Does his confession bring greater clarity to the autopsy, the nature if the injuries? Does it match up with, say, freshly sawn twigs and branches? Is that PROOF he did it? If true, it's consistent. And it adds to the swelling tide of circumstantial evidence which, when added to the State's entire case, which we have yet to see in full, will leave scant room for reasonable alternatives.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

He did go into an institution for some mental health issues in 2019. So it seems it did weigh on him.

Well, until we know he's convicted, I'd say we know he went into an institution in 2019, so something was weighing on him - the what could be not related to this case we just don't know yet. I do wonder if he ever talked in his sleep and if so, what sort of things he may have said then or now???

 

[photographer4]

Darn. My sincere apologies.
That should say DC for Doug Carter!

Ahhh! I thought so but I wanted to ask to be sure! Ty!

 

[Inthedetails]

I do agree it is very important to the case! I guess I'm just over here hoping that the State can show how they arrived at some random BG = RA, BARD and here is why.

We know a fraction of what LE knows. I am expecting to hear evidence at the trial that we currently know nothing about.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

Well, until we know he's convicted, I'd say we know he went into an institution in 2019, so something was weighing on him - the what could be not related to this case we just don't know yet. I do wonder if he ever talked in his sleep and if so, what sort of things he may have said then or now???

Right, but I was replying to your post where you said:

"Didn't seem to bother him before he was accused of the crime at all. I wonder how he lived with himself and his guilt for all the years he walked about free if he did do this crime? ..."

So I replied that he did have an emotional meltdown of some kind, enough to be institutionalised, so you can't really say that it never bothered him and he seemed guilt free. Just sayin....

 

[Ravenmoon]

I would hope that if there was actually identifying information on that video, that the law-enforcement would’ve released it to the public to help people narrow down the search for the suspect. I think that they just straight up don’t want people to convict a person based on maybe possible looking similar to an man in the background of a video. I’m sorry I’m being very repetitive but IMO it’s not evidence of being involved in the crime. MOO

It's okay to be repetitive. I know that some people simply don't think that RA is the killer. I just don't understand why. I am not being confrontational if it comes out that way. It just shocks me.

I hear people wanting the proof of video, DNA, etc. But, circumstancal evidence is still extremely powerful and I feel like TV and movies have made people forget that!

A case CAN be won and many still are won on circumstancal evidence.

This case has so much of that evidence that I personally feel that there is enough beyond a reasonable doubt.

The video just could prove to be the electronic evidence that people are holding out for.

Something tells me that it probably is

JMO