Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Salah11]

The circumstantial evidence points to one man who happens to be RA.

 

[ClearAhead]

The circumstantial evidence points to one man who happens to be RA.

Yes!

Something that was said on MS podcast the other day, the DT thrives on diversion to take the focus off from RA. That’s true, it’s what their theories, their potential theories or their anticipated theories achieve. JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Why do you suppose RA's defense lawyers didn't look at them more closely then and address them individually?

Not certain why you are asking me... I don't have any particular insight on Allen's defense strategy and practices, except to say in general that they have big problems.

 

[Trebor5591]

I believe it's going to be the confessions to his wife and mother that do him in with a jury. MO

Plus, if RA's voice is the same voice that said "Guys, down the hill" on Libby's video of BG, that will be strong evidence. If it is not the same voice, then the Prosecution has a big problem, IMO.

 

[tlcya]

Plus, if RA's voice is the same voice that said "Guys, down the hill" on Libby's video of BG, that will be strong evidence. If it is not the same voice, then the Prosecution has a big problem, IMO.

correct. We have read in the probable cause affidavit for the search of RA's home that his voice is "consistent" with that of the bridge guy. But at trial we will hear that and decide for ourselves. as will the jury.

ETA my opinion is those recorded confessions in RAs own words are the ones the defense team are MOST worried about.

 

[ClearAhead]

correct. We have read in the probable cause affidavit for the search of RA's home that his voice is "consistent" with that of the bridge guy. But at trial we will hear that and decide for ourselves. as will the jury.

ETA my opinion is those recorded confessions in RAs own words are the ones the defense team are MOST worried about.

I agree, confessions, over and over again, in his own words. That will be very powerful. I suspect the prosecution will also present a mental health history of RA. How has MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) impacted his life, especially in terms of anger management? How was it treated, was he ever institutionalized, any prior history of suicide, alcoholism or drug use?

The DT walks a fine line.

They’re no longer allowed to blame the prison for his confessions but neither can they risk blaming his irrational behaviour around the time of his confessions on his mental health conditions that existed prior to his incarceration. They don’t want to portray him as impulsive or neurotic.

I will not be surprised at all if the P puts forth a theory suggesting RA was not coping well due to mental issues at the time of the murders. It’s really the only motive that makes sense in acting alone, assuming he does not have a hidden history of pedophilia in his past.

MOO and JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

I agree, confessions, over and over again, in his own words. That will be very powerful. I suspect the prosecution will also present a mental health history of RA. How has MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) impacted his life, especially in terms of anger management? How was it treated, was he ever institutionalized, any prior history of suicide, alcoholism or drug use?

The DT walks a fine line.

They’re no longer allowed to blame the prison for his confessions but neither can they risk blaming his irrational behaviour around the time of his confessions on his mental health conditions that existed prior to his incarceration. They don’t want to portray him as impulsive or neurotic.

I will not be surprised at all if the P puts forth a theory suggesting RA was not coping well due to mental issues at the time of the murders. It’s really the only motive that makes sense in acting alone, assuming he does not have a hidden history of pedophilia in his past.

MOO and JMO

Do we know if his wife was away around the time of the murders? I remember it was mentioned on the threads but I couldn't find it.

Because if that's the case I can understand why the DT wants to keep Dr Wala's testimony of dependency out of the trial. IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

No more casting aspersions at Ronald Logan. As per Judge Gull's ruling and my previous Admin Note regarding non POIs (including Ronald Logan), speculation on any of the named individuals is off limits.

We love Vinnie, but if content at an approved source is not in line with WS TOS or policies, it's not up for discussion here.

 

[Melted]

Brought back to exactly the spot the phone stopped moving many hours earlier, and one of the victims laid over the phone and killed... without the phone moving at all.

Not plausible.

MOO

They don’t have the exact spot the phone stopped moving, from the cross examination of the phone forensic expert he stated that the apple health data could only account for how many steps were taken, it wasn’t gps based. The last known gps transmission was from the Snapchat video as Snapchat provided that to the phones file system.

So the steps could be any direction and we can see the defense start to hone in on this and the fact that once in a car the apple health would stop recording steps.

I’m not saying this is true obviously it’s just my opinion on something they are going to pursue in defense

 

[Vern]

They don’t have the exact spot the phone stopped moving, from the cross examination of the phone forensic expert he stated that the apple health data could only account for how many steps were taken, it wasn’t gps based. The last known gps transmission was from the Snapchat video as Snapchat provided that to the phones file system.

So the steps could be any direction and we can see the defense start to hone in on this and the fact that once in a car the apple health would stop recording steps.

I’m not saying this is true obviously it’s just my opinion on something they are going to pursue in defense

I believe that the actual testimony was that he could not tell the exact path/route that was taken by the girls and RA from the bridge to the site of their murder because the phone was not GPS tracked. That only the number of steps that weere taken before that phone stopped moving could be determined.

The snapchat video lasted for 48 seconds (by testimony), the phone stopped moving at 1432hrs ... well after the video had stopped.

Please see transcripts of Sgt Cecil's testimony linked in media thread.

Edit to add - transcripts in this linked post:

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

ETA this is a pdf download so not what you asked for. Leaving it stand as it’s easy to download though. Yes thank you steeltowngirl, that's the pdf download link for Harshman, I guess his transcript is not published on scribd site yet?

www.websleuths.com

 

[Arkay]

So the steps could be any direction and we can see the defense start to hone in on this and the fact that once in a car the apple health would stop recording steps

I’m sorry, but I am confused by your comment regarding a car.
We are talking about Libby’s phone, right?
Obviously she didn’t leave her death site by car, nor did her phone.

Are you saying that the murderer took her phone and drove away with it, hence it stopped recording steps?

I know it’s been discussed many times before, but IMO the murderer would not take her phone, disappear from the scene of the crime where he believes no one spotted him, and then drive BACK to where he’d escaped notice and return his victim’s phone and place it under the body of a victim. In the middle of the night, when ostensibly he’d long been home.

That’s asking to be caught. The phone stores more info and evidence than we ever know.
It’s just not plausible or reasonable. He would have to know, too, that since Abby and Libby weren’t coming home, people would be out there looking for them.

IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

They don’t have the exact spot the phone stopped moving, from the cross examination of the phone forensic expert he stated that the apple health data could only account for how many steps were taken, it wasn’t gps based. The last known gps transmission was from the Snapchat video as Snapchat provided that to the phones file system.

So the steps could be any direction and we can see the defense start to hone in on this and the fact that once in a car the apple health would stop recording steps.

I’m not saying this is true obviously it’s just my opinion on something they are going to pursue in defense

I think that might’ve been the D’s plan had the SODDI defense been allowed but that didn’t happen. Too many holes in a story about a nameless ‘somebody’ who took them away in a car, then that ‘somebody’ brought them back hours later to the same spot without anyone noticing and violently murdered them. It’s missing too much, the Who, Why, and Where did they go?, What’s the point of it aside from a desperate attempt to express a theory?
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

They don’t have the exact spot the phone stopped moving, from the cross examination of the phone forensic expert he stated that the apple health data could only account for how many steps were taken, it wasn’t gps based. The last known gps transmission was from the Snapchat video as Snapchat provided that to the phones file system.

So the steps could be any direction and we can see the defense start to hone in on this and the fact that once in a car the apple health would stop recording steps.

I’m not saying this is true obviously it’s just my opinion on something they are going to pursue in defense

The Prosecuting team did not have to show their whole case regarding this at this hearing that the D team wanted.
They spoke of the Apple data and when it Stopped (at this hearing) that does NOT mean they do not have more phone information so I would bet that they do indeed have their last steps and EXACT SPOT

A CAR ??? WHERE would a car come into play for Libby's phone / steps ?? I guess I am confused --there was not a car involved in their murders except the discussion of a car parked at the old building !!

The 3 day hearing was for other issues so the Prosecution only had to provide response to what was brought up at this hearing.
Nothing more--
They are obeying the GAG order in place ( To the public) and do not have to provide any more evidence they have until Trial.

Things the D team wanted at 3 day hearing-
Including the SODDI theory that failed
Among the topics to be discussed are:

• Richard Allen’s Safekeeping
• Suppressing statements made by Richard Allen
• Allen’s defense request to dismiss case
• Other trial procedures

Libby's phone and Apple info will hold a lot more info and we will need to wait until Trial to hear about it. IMO

3 days of hearings in Delphi Murders trials underway

Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams in Delphi in 2017. He was arrested in October 2022.

www.wrtv.com

 

[ClearAhead]

The D is not denying RA’s battle with mental health. I’m not clear why they would state he was “cut off” from the moral support of his wife, mother and daughter. Their latest story just blamed his ‘solitary confinement’ as it was confirmed communication with his family was allowed. “grossly disorganized, delusional, paranoid and highly dysfunctional behavior”…..yikes, that’s quite an apt description of dependency. JMO

BBM

https://wgntv.com/news/indiana/richard-allen-reportedly-made-confessions-to-inmates-guards-attorneys-say-he-was-in-state-of-psychosis/

“The allegedly poor conditions he was kept in exacerbated Allen’s mental health conditions, according to his attorneys. According to them, Allen has “battled depression throughout most of his adult life.”….

Already suffering from a bona fide mental health disorder, and then having been cut off from the moral support of his wife, mother, and daughter, Allen was weakened to the point where he slipped into a state of psychosis plagued with grossly disorganized, delusional, paranoid and highly dysfunctional behavior. These behaviors were manifested through verbal confessions that he may have been drugged, verbal confessions to the double homicide (inconsistent with known facts about the crime scene) periods of not sleeping for days, paranoia, stripping off his clothes, drinking toilet water, covering himself with and eating his own feces, and many other socially unacceptable behaviors.”

BRADLEY ROZZI, ATTORNEY FOR RICHARD ALLEN

 

[Melted]

I believe that the actual testimony was that he could not tell the exact path/route that was taken by the girls and RA from the bridge to the site of their murder because the phone was not GPS tracked. That only the number of steps that weere taken before that phone stopped moving could be determined.

The snapchat video lasted for 48 seconds (by testimony), the phone stopped moving at 1432hrs ... well after the video had stopped.

Please see transcripts of Sgt Cecil's testimony linked in media thread.

Edit to add - transcripts in this linked post:

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

ETA this is a pdf download so not what you asked for. Leaving it stand as it’s easy to download though. Yes thank you steeltowngirl, that's the pdf download link for Harshman, I guess his transcript is not published on scribd site yet?

www.websleuths.com

Yes, that is what I said

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The problem with the defense trying to say that the girls were taken off premises is that the phone’s health app didn’t measure any more movement after about 2:30pm but LG’s phone was still on and connected to the Wells street tower until 5:44pm according to the defense’s 4th Franks.
I think it would be very improbable to abduct the girls to a 3rd location without LG’s health app reporting additional movement or the phone connecting to another tower at some point between 2:30pm and 5:44pm. Or if they were returned in the early hours then again the phone’s health data would have collected movement.
I have little doubt that we will know all the swipes and manipulation of the phone at trial.
I think the phone data will also support the prosecution timeline which will align with the ME’s report and that RA doesn’t have an alibi for that timeline.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aa...iIqMTvih7NMbQh2SCY_aem_ZMJqc_Vo_perQIVsL589vg

 

[m00c0w]

I agree, confessions, over and over again, in his own words. That will be very powerful. I suspect the prosecution will also present a mental health history of RA. How has MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) impacted his life, especially in terms of anger management? How was it treated, was he ever institutionalized, any prior history of suicide, alcoholism or drug use?

The DT walks a fine line.

They’re no longer allowed to blame the prison for his confessions but neither can they risk blaming his irrational behaviour around the time of his confessions on his mental health conditions that existed prior to his incarceration. They don’t want to portray him as impulsive or neurotic.

I will not be surprised at all if the P puts forth a theory suggesting RA was not coping well due to mental issues at the time of the murders. It’s really the only motive that makes sense in acting alone, assuming he does not have a hidden history of pedophilia in his past.

MOO and JMO

I think the state probably has a pretty reasonable understanding of why RA killed them at this point. The motive is probably easily pieced together between the dozens of confessions.

JMO