Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*
IMAGE Discussion Thread

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Sillybilly]

I’m self reporting this post to get clarification from the Mods as to what may or may not be discussed now in light of Judge Gull’s ruling.

A lot of names have been thrown around so I think it’s important that we know how to move forward.

From the ruling:

"The case law is quite clear that the nexus must not be based on speculation, conjecture, rumors, or hearsay, but rather on admissible evidence"

As the Court has not seen any "admissible evidence" to support such speculation, this equates to / aligns with WS policy that speculation must be based on some "known fact".

Going forward, any general discussion of Odinism or speculation on any of the named individuals is off limits.

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Abby & Libby One Year Video

 

[katydid23]

I’m not sure his case is like any we have ever had before really. It isn’t quite solitary confinement as you pointed out since he had a tablet / inmate “companions” and visits from a medical professional.

If it 'isn't quite solitary confinement', why are so many here claiming it is, and claiming it is why he had a meltdown?

But it’s also not normal for a man to be held in a prison before he’s even convicted, is it? MOOOOO

No, but it was not a usual situation for a small town, to have to try and protect an accused child killer from himself and others.

This is the first case I’ve heard of a pre trial detainee being kept as he was and it’s scary imo! If it’s ok to do this to RA then who says it can’t happen to anyone else accused of a crime? MOOOOOOOOO

It takes very unusual circumstances for it even to be considered ---it has to be a high profile violent crime in which there are lots of incoming threats of retaliation and a threat of self harm as well. Not many cases would fit that criteria.

Apparently, there were 22 other pre-trial detainees being housed in Indiana prisons at the time as well. So it does happen.

 

[shonyakay]

Replying to @cybersleuth I made a mistake on the date of the email the date was actually February 17, 2017 not September 17, 2017. Sorry for the confusion. That info came from Day 1/ Motion to Supress hearing. Can you direct me to the transcripts where I can search for certain words in them? When I put in a word to search the Adobe pdf files of the transcripts nothing comes up. Tia.

 

[shonyakay]

Abby & Libby One Year Video

Thank you so much for posting. There are so many pictures I have never see in this. Did AW make this tribute?

THEY are the reason this case has touched all of our hearts.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thank you so much for posting. There are so many pictures I have never see in this. Did AW make this tribute?

THEY are the reason this case has touched all of our hearts.

Yes AW made it. It’s on the Abby and Libby.org – Abigail Williams & Liberty German News / Information site.

 

[Vern]

Replying to @cybersleuth I made a mistake on the date of the email the date was actually February 17, 2017 not September 17, 2017. Sorry for the confusion. That info came from Day 1/ Motion to Supress hearing. Can you direct me to the transcripts where I can search for certain words in them? When I put in a word to search the Adobe pdf files of the transcripts nothing comes up. Tia.

Day 1 of the recent Three Day Hearings?? Whose testimony as I have no idea what details you are actually looking for??

"E-mail" in the search bar ... page 6, line 5

 

[shonyakay]

Yes.

Day 1 of the recent Three Day Hearings?? Whose testimony as I have no idea what details you are actually looking for??

Yes. Day 1 of the recent hearings. Although I don't know if the back and forth between the prosecution and defense are even available.
You can try searching that date in Holeman's first testimony.

@Cyber sleuth I found a link from a Defense filing earlier this year that mentions the February 17, 2017 email. In the filing it lists the names of third party suspects so I doubt I can post that.

 

[shonyakay]

Day 1 of the recent Three Day Hearings?? Whose testimony as I have no idea what details you are actually looking for??

"E-mail" in the search bar ... page 6, line 5

Thank you so much Vern. It's in the Holeman transcript you posted....

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenholemanjuly30-pdf.530451/

Volume 1 page 11
Lines 6 - 23
@Cyber sleuth

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thank you so much Vern. It's in the Holeman transcript you posted....

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/allenholemanjuly30-pdf.530451/

Volume 1 page 11
Lines 6 - 23
@Cyber sleuth

Thank you.

I appreciate you finding it for me. I had read it but it made no sense to me so I had “misfiled” it in my memory.

 

[photographer4]

If it 'isn't quite solitary confinement', why are so many here claiming it is, and claiming it is why he had a meltdown?


No, but it was not a usual situation for a small town, to have to try and protect an accused child killer from himself and others.

It takes very unusual circumstances for it even to be considered ---it has to be a high profile violent crime in which there are lots of incoming threats of retaliation and a threat of self harm as well. Not many cases would fit that criteria.

Apparently, there were 22 other pre-trial detainees being housed in Indiana prisons at the time as well. So it does happen.

1. Probably because that’s what it’s been called by the media?

Attorneys split on appeal potential in Delphi double murder case

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Since late October of 2022, Richard Allen has remained in solitary confinement, mostly in a maximum security state prison but recently in a county jail, awaiting trial …

fox59.com

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen wants to appeal rulings, raising possibility of trial delay

The development could lead to another delay in the long-awaited trial, currently set to start on Oct. 14.

www.jconline.com

Delphi suspect Richard Allen's lawyers say he's treated like POW

Attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen, accused of murdering two Indiana teenage girls in 2017, say he's been treated like a prisoner of war in a motion to move him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

2. He’s an accused. Not convicted child killer. Big difference imo. When they arrested and placed him into the conditions they did, on what grounds did they do so? Did he have counsel? What made it ok to keep him in this situation for a prolonged period exceeding several months? I’m genuinely asking that the state justify this. It’s outrageous imo. And I offer this link to show how long he was held in this situation: ‘Safekeeping’ order ends for Richard Allen. Pivotal pretrial testimony in play in Delphi murders
Looks like arrested 2022 and moved to county in August 2024. This is disgraceful imo.

3. Are there any other instances that you know of like RA’s with the accused being held in “solitary confinement” (per media links above) for as long as RA had been? In the same conditions he was facing? If so, pls link me as I would be interested to know which case set this precedent that made this ok. I’m not a lawyer and this is the first such case I have followed. I wonder if RA’s case has just set a scary precedent and wonder what makes this ok?

 

[girlhasnoname]

After reading Holeman's testimony during the hearings linked about it was painfully obvious to me that Baldwin was trying to get him to speak or confirm certain things the D considered important, especially phone information.

Holeman was calm and professional, but he also was not playing games IMO and seemed to have shut Baldwin down fairly quickly. I would guess Rozzi will do the majority of cross at trial.

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

Thank you.

I appreciate you finding it for me. I had read it but it made no sense to me so I had “misfiled” it in my memory.

No worries.
Happens to me too.

 

[girlhasnoname]

1. Probably because that’s what it’s been called by the media?

RA was housed in the Maximum Security Segregation Unit in Westville under suicide watch. A unit of approx 150 inmates that were housed 2 per cell. RA was allowed his own cell and certain other privileges others were not. He was not stuck in a dark hole in the prison basement in a straight jacket. There was regular activity, his physical and mental were assessed during intake and he had consistent access to a MH therapist. He had rec time, access to religious services if he elected to attend, showers and clean clothes provided as any other person incarcerated in jail or prison.

Attorneys split on appeal potential in Delphi double murder case

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Since late October of 2022, Richard Allen has remained in solitary confinement, mostly in a maximum security state prison but recently in a county jail, awaiting trial …

fox59.com

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen wants to appeal rulings, raising possibility of trial delay

The development could lead to another delay in the long-awaited trial, currently set to start on Oct. 14.

www.jconline.com

Delphi suspect Richard Allen's lawyers say he's treated like POW

Attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen, accused of murdering two Indiana teenage girls in 2017, say he's been treated like a prisoner of war in a motion to move him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

2. He’s an accused. Not convicted child killer. Big difference imo. When they arrested and placed him into the conditions they did, on what grounds did they do so? Did he have counsel?

RA is a Defendant in a high profile double homicide in a County that did not have the resources to monitor or transport him safely. RA waived his right to a court appointed counsel during his first Court appearance. He stated he would be obtaining his own Attorney. He did not have counsel when moved, but that was RA's choice not the States. RA then submitted a letter to the Court asking for a public defense because he 'didn't realize how expensive it would be'. Rozzi and Baldwin were appointed by the Court after that. Here's a copy of that letter from Court Filings:


MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Abby & Libby One Year Video

What a beautiful thing. I was so torn between the sad emoji and the love emoji, but Love won out in the end.

I believe they will get the true justice they so desperately deserve. How sad these young lives were cut short at the hands of a monster that day?

#Justice4Abby&Libby - Always