Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[al66pine]

What a cluster...

@CrimeAway.
Is the word you're thinking of .........cluck?

 

[DI_Isokawa]

After a first quick look at the supplemental material and the description of the Joel Souza's wound it doesn't sound like a full 250 grain load was in that round. Just a very preliminary observation, I could be wrong.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Starline Brass website - from their FAQ on reloading.

FAQS | Rifle, Handgun, and Pistol Brass

How do I get started reloading?
Let's Get Ready to Reload

So you think you want to reload some ammo? Maybe you just purchased your first centerfire firearm and you want to save some money on practice ammo? Maybe you want to create some customized loads that the ammo factories don't offer? Maybe you want to fine-tune your loads to give you more success on the range or in the field? Maybe you need to reload out of necessity because you own firearms with rare chambering? Maybe you are looking for a great new hobby? There are lots of reasons to reload, but today, most people start reloading for one major reason - you can save money.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The filing indicates that Thell Reed, also an armorer, did not intentionally provide the live rounds, but that ammunition he brought to an earlier, separate production might have made its way to the set of "Rust."
...
Reed told authorities he had brought an "ammo can" of live rounds to another set, earlier in summer, at the request of Seth Kenney, a movie gun supplier who is affiliated with the New Mexico prop firm PDQ Arm & Prop LLC, the target of Tuesday's search warrant.
...
"Thell stated his ammunition may match the ammunition found on the set of 'Rust,'" the affidavit states.
...
The filing states "Rust" prop master Sarah Zachry said the ammunition for that production was from multiple sources, including rounds Gutierrez Reed brought from a previous production and some provided by another person. It's not clear how this narrative fits with the one about live rounds from a previous set.
...
Zachry said she found some cartridges in the box would rattle, which signified them being "dummy rounds," however, others did not, which led her to believe some were live, according to the filing.
Weapons expert points to possible explanation for how live rounds got on 'Rust' set

While adding in negligence from yet another party may mitigate HGR's liability it seems like she's still responsible for loading a live round into the gun. I can't see any way that can't be true. MOO.

Why did Thell bring live rounds to another set “at the request of Seth Kenney”? Who is Seth Kenney? I thought live rounds on set was a huge no-no, and TR is extremely experienced.

Blood on many hands in this mess.

ETA: Seth Kenney was known.
Seth Kenney, who owns a weapon and prop rental company in Lake Havasu City, was an “armorer mentor” for Gutierrez Reed and had suggested her for the job, and he supplied the guns used on set, according to the LA Times.

LA Times: Arizona gun expert worked on 'Rust' before fatal shooting

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Gutierrez Reed described loading the revolver with five dummy rounds before lunch on Oct. 21. She said the sixth round would not fit in the gun, so after lunch she cleaned it out and then was able to load it.

She said she “didn’t really check it too much” before loading the final bullet because the gun had been locked up during lunch.“We had the gun the whole time before that, and nothing happened, and I wasn’t in there, and they weren’t even supposed to be pulling the hammer back,” she told investigators.

Snipped & BBM.

She didn't check it too much? She wasn't the only one with the keys, so it should have been checked thoroughly every single time.

 

[PrairieWind]

The cluster gets worse:

‘Rust’: Warrant Sheds Light on How Alleged Live Ammo Ended Up On Set – The Hollywood Reporter

As I read this, HGR's dad, TR, is blaming the armorer SK (the proposed John Doe not yet named in any complaints - he will be after this).

Of course, the FBI will be able to say whether this story remotely checks out. But it does make a kind of sense. I would be happy if someone could weigh in on how they see this cluster.

Has the FBI been involved? Not sure.
There is now some definite blaming going on among folks. These are allegations being thrown around by HGR's attorney. This new info is confusing, but it all still comes down to HGR didn't do her job as far as I can see. There are lots of folks to blame, but this was HER job.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

‘Rust’ Investigators Reveal New Details About Source of Live Rounds

Tue, November 30, 2021, 5:08 PM

Seth Kenney, the weapons expert who supplied the guns for the film,
described how a couple years back, he received ‘reloaded ammunition’ from a friend,'” the investigators wrote in the search warrant affidavit.

“Seth described the ammunition stuck out to him due to the suspected live round to have (sic) a cartridge with the Starline Brass logo on it… He described how the company only sells components of ammunition, and not live ammunition, and therefore it had to be a reloaded round.”

The search warrant affidavit also includes new details from interviews with Hannah Gutierrez Reed, the 24-year-old armorer on the film, as well as her father, veteran film armorer Thell Reed.

Gutierrez Reed described loading the revolver with five dummy rounds before lunch on Oct. 21. She said the sixth round would not fit in the gun, so after lunch she cleaned it out and then was able to load it.

She said she “didn’t really check it too much” before loading the final bullet because the gun had been locked up during lunch.“We had the gun the whole time before that, and nothing happened, and I wasn’t in there, and they weren’t even supposed to be pulling the hammer back,” she told investigators.

Her father, Thell Reed, provided a statement to investigators on Nov. 15, and gave a follow-up interview on Nov. 17. He offered his own theory on the origin of the live rounds. In his telling, he and Kenney worked together on another project in August or September, where they provided live fire training for actors on a firing range. Kenney asked Reed to bring some live rounds in case they ran out of ammunition.

Reed brought a can that included live ammo, and after the training, Kenney took the rounds home, according to the affidavit. Reed said he made several attempts to get the ammunition back from Kenney, but that Kenney told him to “write it off.” The can included .45-caliber rounds, and Reed suggested they might match the rounds found on the set of “Rust.”

PDQ MEDIA ARM & PROP, LLC :: Arizona (US) :: OpenCorporates
Agent Name
SETH KENNEY
Status
Active
Incorporation Date
20 September 2017 (about 4 years ago)
Company Type
Domestic LLC

And then - SK provided guns and ammo t0 HGR / Rust. Well, well, well, now we're starting to get nearer to the truth ...

I'd say SK is in real trouble, right along with HGR and DH.

JMO

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The filing indicates that Thell Reed, also an armorer, did not intentionally provide the live rounds, but that ammunition he brought to an earlier, separate production might have made its way to the set of "Rust."
...
Reed told authorities he had brought an "ammo can" of live rounds to another set, earlier in summer, at the request of Seth Kenney, a movie gun supplier who is affiliated with the New Mexico prop firm PDQ Arm & Prop LLC, the target of Tuesday's search warrant.
...
"Thell stated his ammunition may match the ammunition found on the set of 'Rust,'" the affidavit states.
...
The filing states "Rust" prop master Sarah Zachry said the ammunition for that production was from multiple sources, including rounds Gutierrez Reed brought from a previous production and some provided by another person. It's not clear how this narrative fits with the one about live rounds from a previous set.
...
Zachry said she found some cartridges in the box would rattle, which signified them being "dummy rounds," however, others did not, which led her to believe some were live, according to the filing.
Weapons expert points to possible explanation for how live rounds got on 'Rust' set

While adding in negligence from yet another party may mitigate HGR's liability it seems like she's still responsible for loading a live round into the gun. I can't see any way that can't be true. MOO.

SMB

Zachry said she found some cartridges in the box would rattle, which signified them being "dummy rounds," however, others did not, which led her to believe some were live, according to the filing.

And she didn't raise the alarm to someone, anyone, everyone?!!!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

‘Rust’ Producers’ ‘The Tiger Rising’ Presented Red Flags – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[Ruby12345]

SMB

Zachry said she found some cartridges in the box would rattle, which signified them being "dummy rounds," however, others did not, which led her to believe some were live, according to the filing.

And she didn't raise the alarm to someone, anyone, everyone?!!!

From the original yahoo article, it was after the shooting. She probably shouldn't have touched them though IMO.

 

[GatorFL]

Alec set to give an interview w/ABC: ABC News Alec Baldwin Interview With George Stephanopoulos Set – The Hollywood Reporter

 

[PrairieWind]

And then - SK provided guns and ammo t0 HGR / Rust. Well, well, well, now we're starting to get nearer to the truth ...

I'd say SK is in real trouble, right along with HGR and DH.

JMO

I don't think this is placing blame on SK, at least not yet. This is HGR's attorney trying to place that blame. Obviously the fired cartridge had Starline brass markings on it. That is about all we can deduce from this at this point. HGR apparently obtained ammo from various sources. Did SK supply dummy rounds that had live rounds mixed in? I guess we will see. But it was still HGR's job to load the gun with dummy rounds. SHE is the expert. Her story seems to keep changing and that speaks volumes to me. I am well experienced with firearms and her story about loading the gun, the round not going in, etc. just makes very little sense.

 

[Kiranerys]

Alec set to give an interview w/ABC: ABC News Alec Baldwin Interview With George Stephanopoulos Set – The Hollywood Reporter

I really don't think this is a good idea!

 

[RANCH]

Alec Baldwin Says He 'Didn't Pull the Trigger' in First Sit-Down Interview Since Rust Shooting

When asked if he pulled the trigger on the gun that killed Hutchins, the cinematographer who worked on Rust, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger on them, never."

The preview didn't include Baldwin's explanation as to how the shot was fired from the gun.

Alec Baldwin Says He 'Didn't Pull the Trigger' in First Sit-Down Interview Since Rust Shooting

 

[MsMarple]

Alec Baldwin Says He 'Didn't Pull the Trigger' in First Sit-Down Interview Since Rust Shooting

When asked if he pulled the trigger on the gun that killed Hutchins, the cinematographer who worked on Rust, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger on them, never."

The preview didn't include Baldwin's explanation as to how the shot was fired from the gun.

Alec Baldwin Says He 'Didn't Pull the Trigger' in First Sit-Down Interview Since Rust Shooting

So it was a magic gun? I'm not well versed in weapons but I thought this particular gun wouldn't fire unless the hammer was cocked?

 

[DI_Isokawa]

When asked if he pulled the trigger on the gun that killed Hutchins, the cinematographer who worked on Rust, Baldwin said, "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger on them, never."

So on top of all the other lapses, AB was handed a gun that was on half *advertiser censored*? I believe either DH or HGR said they spun the cylinder at least part way. To release the cylinder you have to put the gun on half *advertiser censored*. Did either of them lower the hammer to the uncocked position?

Somebody should dig out or take pictures of what one of these replicas look like when fully cocked and half cocked for loading/inspection.

And I wouldn't automatically rule out an unintended discharge of a half-cocked weapon. Something like that is still a possible explanation of how Zachry shot herself.

 

[PrairieWind]

So it was a magic gun? I'm not well versed in weapons but I thought this particular gun wouldn't fire unless the hammer was cocked?

He is full of crap. I give him the benefit of the doubt on a lot of this stuff, but this is just crap. Revolvers don't fire themselves.

 

[MajorHoople]

After a first quick look at the supplemental material and the description of the Joel Souza's wound it doesn't sound like a full 250 grain load was in that round. Just a very preliminary observation, I could be wrong.

I might be wrong too, but I'm under the impression that Joel Souza was shot with the same bullet that passed completely through Halyna Hutchins and with most of it's energy spent lodged into Mr. Souza's shoulder.

 

[Cool Cats]

Right now this is Wednesday. I assume tomorrow - Thursday - will be when we find out how Alex pointed and shot a gun at someone when he says he doesn't do that.

"I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger on them, never."

Baldwin's ABC interview will air on Thursday at 8 p.m. EST and will begin streaming later that evening on Hulu.

Alec Baldwin wiped his tears as he talked about the accidental killing of a cinematographer on the set of his film, and he threw a grenade at the gun.

Baldwin sat down with George Stephanopoulos for his first interview since the deadly shooting.

Next week, a two-hour 20/20 special will delve into the events ahead of the shooting on Rust and the investigations. The episode will air on Friday, Dec. 10 at 9:01 p.m. EST on ABC and be available to stream on Hulu the next day.

 

[CrimeAway]

So on top of all the other lapses, AB was handed a gun that was on half *advertiser censored*? I believe either DH or HGR said they spun the cylinder at least part way. To release the cylinder you have to put the gun on half *advertiser censored*. Did either of them lower the hammer to the uncocked position?

Somebody should dig out or take pictures of what one of these replicas look like when fully cocked and half cocked for loading/inspection.

And I wouldn't automatically rule out an unintended discharge of a half-cocked weapon. Something like that is still a possible explanation of how Zachry shot herself.

Interesting possiblity. Thank you for sharing.