Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #38

[DrWatson]

There may be assets, but what is unclear is if any mortgages are held over the property. Given the number of companies listed on ASIC involving either GBC, NBC, EBC or a combination thereof, all involved in property, real estate, finance or mortgages, it could well be that the house was purchased in the name of Allison and GBC, financed through another one of their funny set ups, and the big boys providing the capital are calling in the money given that the capacity for earnings in the BC clan has dropped significantly. And no TM around anymore to take up any slack.

I don't think the $10 a week from Corrective Services will cover the short fall, nor the pension fund of Nigelaine (actual name used on ASIC so no parody) which will have been eaten away by the 2008 GFC and the impacts of the Brisbane floods on the real estate market in the Greater Brisbane Area as well as the general downturn in house prices.

All good points. But your post actually reminded me of something else: wasn't at least one of the so-called "debts" listed for GBC that of being a guarantor for somebody to the tune of about $300,000?

Now I know that strictly speaking, being guarantor is NOT a debt - unless the person you are guaranteeing defaults.

But - what is the status of a guarantor who is in jail on remand for murder, and if the guarantee was in both their names (i.e. Allison and GBC) or that of the business, then I would think this could really start to complicate matters for poor Geoff Dickie in terms of administering Allison's estate, couldn't it?

And it would also, I suspect, cause real problems for the terms of the loan for whoever it was that was being guaranteed by GBC.... would the mortgage company/bank play tough and insist on a new guarantor? Or would Allison's estate come into the equation - heaven forbid?

Just a thought that popped up after reading Rational's post....

 

[elmo343]

I'm thinking that paying for those big expensive lawyer fees might be a little more difficult now.

 

[alioop]

Mr Dickie now has to try to work out what the status of Allison's estate is. What are it's assets and liabilities. A tricky job given the companies and trusts that appear to be involved. The insurance and super are the easy part. Hopefully he will be given a copy of the forensic accountants report that will have investigated GBC's and Allison's complete financials. That will be a big help to him.

It is good that there appears to be at least one property that Allison had an interest in. At least we now know that they did have real estate as it made no sense to us that they wouldn't have had any.

There are some interesting comments in the various MSM about today's hearing and Allison's will. I need to put them all together to see if I can work out what Allison's will says. Whilst I feel a bit invasive of her privacy re her will, I think it is very relevant to the charges against him.

 

[Rational]

Mr Dickie now has to try to work out what the status of Allison's estate is. What are it's assets and liabilities. A tricky job given the companies and trusts that appear to be involved. The insurance and super are the easy part. Hopefully he will be given a copy of the forensic accountants report that will have investigated GBC's and Allison's complete financials. That will be a big help to him.

It is good that there appears to be at least one property that Allison had an interest in. At least we now know that they did have real estate as it made no sense to us that they wouldn't have had any.

There are some interesting comments in the various MSM about today's hearing and Allison's will. I need to put them all together to see if I can work out what Allison's will says. Whilst I feel a bit invasive of her privacy re her will, I think it is very relevant to the charges against him.

It may not show much at all, given that what was said elsewhere (sorry cannot remember exactly) that Allison's will predates the birth of the children, so it would be very short on specifics and sounds to be more like a will that is taken out by most people after they get married. So I am unsure how it would be relevant to the charges??

 

[enthralled]

Good thought, Enthralled. But I was thinking more along the lines of a property in the name of the BC Seniors. Or even one in joint name between NBC and GBC, or a third party entity such as yet another company. Was just thinking out loud, so to speak, and wondering where the money is coming from to pay for the defence.

Wouldn't "Allison" still be entitled to funds from the sale of a property that only has gbc and NBC or whoever on it. As long as that property was purchased whilst she was married to gbc she should be entitled to part of his share. If gbc isn't in on the deal and it can be proven, without a doubt, then I guess she wouldn't have a share.
It wouldn't surprise me if bcs purchased property and tried to make it look like gbc had no connection so that if Allison and gbc divorced she couldn't claim on those properties. The secret bc stash

 

[marlywings]

September 5, 2012

Mrs Baden-Clay's will was made in 1997, just before her marriage to Mr Baden-Clay and before she had any children

In it she lists her future husband as the sole executor and benefactor of her will and appoints Mr Dickie as the executor if Mr Baden-Clay could not fulfil the obligations.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ents-reveal-20120905-25ee1.html#ixzz25b2L89Xp

 

[enthralled]

I hope some of the funds raised can also be used to support mr & mrs Dickie too. With all this extra stress and also to raising the girls, they may have extra medical needs (they are not spring chickens). They need to make sure they have all their needs met so that they can take care of the girls. Things like medical and some recreation or pampering.

 

[Tishy]

Not sure about other locals, but from my point of view I have neither seen nor heard anything from them. Don't forget that the BC Seniors weren't really a part of the Brookfield "scene" like Allison and family were. With Allison sadly gone, and with GBC in the nick, the family is now talked about, but not heard from. At least from what I'm privy to. And bear in mind that I have one neighbor in particular who was VERY close to Allison, and was very involved in the organisation of the fund-raising event(s) - I would tend to get the local gossip quite readily.

Any other locals with different info?

Doc, being part of the Brookfield "scene", which way do you swing on GBC guilt or otherwise at the moment, given what actual facts we know?

 

[KG1]

Cant believe that disgusting baden-clay family have even been allowed to draw $67,000.00 from funds already. It is obviously all about the money to them. Just wish that they could be made pay back the money once he is convicted. IMO Allison's family should get all assets and the murderer should get all the debts. Let the bc family beg and grovel to cover debts. Damn shame their insurance policies couldnt be claimed on.

As I understood matters, GBC withdrew/sold 50% of the share portfolio, which he was entitled to as half owner. I am not sure whether this was before or after Allison's disappearance.

 

[Bayside]

I hope some of the funds raised can also be used to support mr & mrs Dickie too. With all this extra stress and also to raising the girls, they may have extra medical needs (they are not spring chickens). They need to make sure they have all their needs met so that they can take care of the girls. Things like medical and some recreation or pampering.

Very good points.

 

[Strangeworld]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...erard-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226465935990

"AN investment property bought for murdered Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay and her brother Ashley has been secretly sold by her husband, accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

The Gold Coast home jointly owned by the siblings and their partners was held in the name of World of Top Step Pty Ltd, the company owned by the Baden-Clays."

article is up on Courier Mail site. I wonder if the sale of the property can be made null and void?

 

[KG1]

Something odd about this house sale. How could GBC apply to Australian Securities and Investments Commission on August 21 to have Mrs Baden-Clay removed as director and secretary of WOTS while his finances are still under investigation with forensic accountant??

Wouldn't all his finances & anything related to that, had some sort of block put on them to stop any forms of transactions taking place while being investigated??

His finances are not frozen and he is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. He has appointed OW as his Power of Attorney, and she stands in his shoes whilst he is unable to conduct his affairs. Therefore she is able to submit documents to ASIC on his behalf re removal of a deceased director as he is still the other director. I can't see any reason that the auction could still not go ahead, with 50% of the proceeds to be held in Allison's estate. Maybe some of the creditors of GBC have lodged caveats on the property, so it is probably better that the status quo is maintained. Depends what name/s are on the title, or it may even be owned by a company, or still subject to a mortgage. Lots of questions and issues.

 

[summer_breeze]

His finances are not frozen and he is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. He has appointed OW as his Power of Attorney, and she stands in his shoes whilst he is unable to conduct his affairs. Therefore she is able to submit documents to ASIC on his behalf re removal of a deceased director as he is still the other director. I can't see any reason that the auction could still not go ahead, with 50% of the proceeds to be held in Allison's estate. Maybe some of the creditors of GBC have lodged caveats on the property, so it is probably better that the status quo is maintained. Depends what name/s are on the title, or it may even be owned by a company, or still subject to a mortgage. Lots of questions and issues.

Thank you KG1.

To clarify (perhaps just for me), even if Allison has been removed as Director of the company, she (her estate) still has a right to 50% of all proceeds/profits (and debt)?

Or is this also subject to the caveats of whose names were on the title, company charter type provisions, etc?

 

[they'll get you]

"AN investment property bought for murdered Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay and her brother Ashley has been secretly sold by her husband, accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay"
Did the Dickies buy this for Allison & Ashley for their investment? Being next door it sounds like it. If this is the case I can't believe what I'm seeing. How low can these <mod snip> stoop to. now the Dickies have an added burden of the costs of a legal team to pay.
<modsnip>

 

[Nads]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...erard-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226465935990

"AN investment property bought for murdered Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay and her brother Ashley has been secretly sold by her husband, accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

The Gold Coast home jointly owned by the siblings and their partners was held in the name of World of Top Step Pty Ltd, the company owned by the Baden-Clays."

article is up on Courier Mail site. I wonder if the sale of the property can be made null and void?

Oh my, he did this while in jail pretending, allegedly, to be depressed and needing psychiatric care!

What a rotter!

 

[Nads]

His finances are not frozen and he is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. He has appointed OW as his Power of Attorney, and she stands in his shoes whilst he is unable to conduct his affairs. Therefore she is able to submit documents to ASIC on his behalf re removal of a deceased director as he is still the other director. I can't see any reason that the auction could still not go ahead, with 50% of the proceeds to be held in Allison's estate. Maybe some of the creditors of GBC have lodged caveats on the property, so it is probably better that the status quo is maintained. Depends what name/s are on the title, or it may even be owned by a company, or still subject to a mortgage. Lots of questions and issues.

An offer has already been accepted. There will be no auction. Will be interesting to see if the Dickies are able to get the sale halted now.

 

[KG1]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...erard-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226465935990

"AN investment property bought for murdered Brookfield mother Allison Baden-Clay and her brother Ashley has been secretly sold by her husband, accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

The Gold Coast home jointly owned by the siblings and their partners was held in the name of World of Top Step Pty Ltd, the company owned by the Baden-Clays."

article is up on Courier Mail site. I wonder if the sale of the property can be made null and void?

Doesn't this just prove that it is all about money? He is just so 'distraught' in relation to his wife's death that he is very cunningly able to continue wheeling and dealing from inside the medical/protected area of Arthur Gorrie. What an absolute creep of an excuse for a human being he is, aided and abetted by the whole clan. Just a sleaze - words fail me. And I guarantee that Allison's brother and his wife knew zilch about these plans. If, as stated, the house is next door to Allison's parents' house, then what blatant effrontry to sell it under their noses. They should all be in jail. I hope the ATO is looking at them long and hard.

 

[they'll get you]

oh my, he did this while in jail pretending, allegedly, to be depressed and needing psychiatric care!

What a rotter!

all assets involved should be frozen now

 

[KG1]

Thank you KG1.

To clarify (perhaps just for me), even if Allison has been removed as Director of the company, she (her estate) still has a right to 50% of all proceeds/profits (and debt)?

Or is this also subject to the caveats of whose names were on the title, company charter type provisions, etc?

Hi Summer, As I understand things, once she is removed as a director of the company, that is the end of her connection to the company. The company is a separate legal entity, and the director/s have control of that company to trade, sell assets of the company or whatever he/they want to do, so long as it is legal and within the Corporations Act.
However, this company may be a Trustee Company holding the assets for beneficiaries, whereby all company property is held on trust for beneficiaries, such as GBC and Allison and Ashley and his wife.
It is impossible to know what the situation is without knowing who or what entity holds the legal title and if there are beneficiaries.

 

[marlywings]

His finances are not frozen and he is still presumed innocent until proven guilty. He has appointed OW as his Power of Attorney, and she stands in his shoes whilst he is unable to conduct his affairs. Therefore she is able to submit documents to ASIC on his behalf re removal of a deceased director as he is still the other director. I can't see any reason that the auction could still not go ahead, with 50% of the proceeds to be held in Allison's estate. Maybe some of the creditors of GBC have lodged caveats on the property, so it is probably better that the status quo is maintained. Depends what name/s are on the title, or it may even be owned by a company, or still subject to a mortgage. Lots of questions and issues.

Thanks KG...what I'm really curious about though is, his finances are still under investigation by forensics accountant...this is still ongoing. Why would he be allowed anywhere near anything to do with the finance side of it??

Say for example, computer/phone is still being tested by forensics, he wouldn't be allowed to use it while this testing is still ongoing...why then with finance??