Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39

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Right before the Bail Hearing? Can some WS members who live close by check please? The flowers stand as a symbol that the community cares and wants to see Justice done. It might be convenient to some to remove the flowers, so the community will forget and get on with 'business as usual'.

Did anyone check if the flowers had been removed from the bridge? I wonder who would do that if indeed that is the case. We know G couldn't remove them but it reminds me of Gabe Watson- filmed removing flowers from his wife Tina's grave. Tina mysteriously drowned on her honeymoon off Townsville and Gabe served time for manslaughter but was acquitted of her murder. Life insurance was an issue in that case too. Tina's parents fought long and hard to get that guy behind bars for her murder. What suffering some families go through! Let's hope the case against the accused in this case covers all bases.
 
Did anyone check if the flowers had been removed from the bridge? I wonder who would do that if indeed that is the case. We know G couldn't remove them but it reminds me of Gabe Watson- filmed removing flowers from his wife Tina's grave. Tina mysteriously drowned on her honeymoon off Townsville and Gabe served time for manslaughter but was acquitted of her murder. Life insurance was an issue in that case too. Tina's parents fought long and hard to get that guy behind bars for her murder. What suffering some families go through! Let's hope the case against the accused in this case covers all bases.

I remember that case, he was a piece of work.:furious:
 
Baden-Clay makes second bid for bail, by Marissa Calligeros,
www.brisbanetimes.com.au
This article refers to accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay's attempt at a second bid for bail less than two weeks before Christmas.
It states: 'If successful, Mr Baden-Clay could return home for Christmas'.

Return home? Where is home? He destroyed his home the night he allegedly murdered Allison. This destroyed 'home' for the girls. The rented house has been vacated. The girls have been resettled into a new 'home' with their maternal grandparents. So where is home for GBC? Is it with TM? Is it his parents home? Is it his sister's home? Wonder what the reporter meant when writing that because GBC has no home to return to for Christmas, unless they meant his parent's house IMO. If he gets bailed, this could mean more unnecessary distress for the Dickies re probable Family Court action before Christmas re access over the girls. I imagine that the BC seniors may seek access to the girls for Christmas which could allow GBC access if he is living at his parents house.
Potentially there is a risk of jeopardy to the case as the girls could be 'witnesses' and 'interfering with witnesses' is something the Bail Judge must bear in mind IMO. So its not just a matter of his Legal right to apply for Bail, it is also about the potential impact of Bail on others involved in the case. My opinion only.
 
Hi All, as a Brookie local, I have followed the Baden-Clay threads since Allison first went missing, but this is my first post. I can confirm the flowers from the fence outside the house have been removed, but the flowers on the bridge are very much still in place (drove over the Kholo Creek Bridge just yesterday).
 
Baden-Clay makes second bid for bail, by Marissa Calligeros,
www.brisbanetimes.com.au
This article refers to accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay's attempt at a second bid for bail less than two weeks before Christmas.
It states: 'If successful, Mr Baden-Clay could return home for Christmas'.

Return home? Where is home? He destroyed his home the night he allegedly murdered Allison. This destroyed 'home' for the girls. The rented house has been vacated. The girls have been resettled into a new 'home' with their maternal grandparents. So where is home for GBC? Is it with TM? Is it his parents home? Is it his sister's home? Wonder what the reporter meant when writing that because GBC has no home to return to for Christmas, unless they meant his parent's house IMO. If he gets bailed, this could mean more unnecessary distress for the Dickies re probable Family Court action before Christmas re access over the girls. I imagine that the BC seniors may seek access to the girls for Christmas which would allow GBC access if he is living at his parents house.
Potentially there is a risk of jeopardy to the case as the girls could be 'witnesses' and 'interfering with witnesses' is something the Bail Judge must bear in mind IMO. So its not just a matter of his Legal right to apply for Bail, it is also about the potential impact of Bail on others involved in the case. My opinion only.

Legislation relevant to the bail application -

Bail Act 1980 (Qld)
13 When only the Supreme Court may grant bail
Only the Supreme Court or a judge of the Supreme Court may
grant bail to a person charged with an offence under the
Criminal Code if, on conviction, the sentencing court will
have to decide which of the following sentences to impose on
the person—
(a) imprisonment for life, which cannot be mitigated or
varied under the Criminal Code or any other law;

16 Refusal of bail
(1) Notwithstanding this Act, a court or police officer authorised
by this Act to grant bail shall refuse to grant bail to a
defendant if the court or police officer is satisfied—
(a) that there is an unacceptable risk that the defendant if
released on bail—
(i) would fail to appear and surrender into custody;
or
(ii) would while released on bail—
(A) commit an offence; or
(B) endanger the safety or welfare of a person
who is claimed to be a victim of the offence
with which the defendant is charged or
anyone else’s safety or welfare; or
(C) interfere with witnesses or otherwise
obstruct the course of justice, whether for the
defendant or anyone else;
or
(b) that the defendant should remain in custody for the defendant’s own protection.

(2) In assessing whether there is an unacceptable risk with respect
to any event specified in subsection (1)(a) the court or police
officer shall have regard to all matters appearing to be
relevant and in particular, without in any way limiting the
generality of this provision, to such of the following
considerations as appear to be relevant—

(a) the nature and seriousness of the offence;
(b) the character, antecedents, associations, home
environment, employment and background of the
defendant;

(c) the history of any previous grants of bail to the
defendant;
(d) the strength of the evidence against the defendant;

First bail application, 22 June 2012-Brisbane Supreme Court - some comments from Justice Boddice-

Justice Boddice said Mr Baden-Clay’s ties to the community, his obligation to his daughters and his obligations to his business must be balanced against “the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment” and what that might mean to a person.

“The applicant is facing the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment, flight is a real possibility, a real possibility,” he said.

“Although he may have property and other work relationship ties with Queensland, that is not an unusual factor and would not necessarily prevent flight of someone determined to abscond because of fear of a lengthy prison sentence.”

Justice Boddice disagreed with the defence submission that the Crown case was “weak”. While circumstantial, it could “be taken by a jury as strong evidence”.

After a 25-minute address to the court, where he outlined both the defence and prosecution arguments for and against bail, Justice Boddice ended the speculation with a simple sentence.

“The applicant has not satisfied me that his continued detention in custody is not justified,” he said in denying the application.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz2Dqe3XA61.


Kate Kyriacou From: The Courier-Mail June 22, 2012
Explosive new details of the police case against Gerard Baden-Clay have emerged during his unsuccessful bid for bail in the Supreme Court in Brisbane.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/secur...lay-bail-hearing/story-e6frea6u-1226405320824
 
Hi All, as a Brookie local, I have followed the Baden-Clay threads since Allison first went missing, but this is my first post. I can confirm the flowers from the fence outside the house have been removed, but the flowers on the bridge are very much still in place (drove over the Kholo Creek Bridge just yesterday).
Thank you Eclair for that feedback.
 
Baden-Clay makes second bid for bail, by Marissa Calligeros,
www.brisbanetimes.com.au
This article refers to accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay's attempt at a second bid for bail less than two weeks before Christmas.
It states: 'If successful, Mr Baden-Clay could return home for Christmas'.

Return home? Where is home? He destroyed his home the night he allegedly murdered Allison. This destroyed 'home' for the girls. The rented house has been vacated. The girls have been resettled into a new 'home' with their maternal grandparents. So where is home for GBC? Is it with TM? Is it his parents home? Is it his sister's home? Wonder what the reporter meant when writing that because GBC has no home to return to for Christmas, unless they meant his parent's house IMO. If he gets bailed, this could mean more unnecessary distress for the Dickies re probable Family Court action before Christmas re access over the girls. I imagine that the BC seniors may seek access to the girls for Christmas which could allow GBC access if he is living at his parents house.
Potentially there is a risk of jeopardy to the case as the girls could be 'witnesses' and 'interfering with witnesses' is something the Bail Judge must bear in mind IMO. So its not just a matter of his Legal right to apply for Bail, it is also about the potential impact of Bail on others involved in the case. My opinion only.

Great post Fuskier. Thank you.
 
Hi All, as a Brookie local, I have followed the Baden-Clay threads since Allison first went missing, but this is my first post. I can confirm the flowers from the fence outside the house have been removed, but the flowers on the bridge are very much still in place (drove over the Kholo Creek Bridge just yesterday).

Welcome Eclair and thank you for the feedback about the flowers on the bridge.
 
Hi Mods
I know this is O/T - Are we able to start a thread re Ramage or leave here?
Has some similarities re what Allison went through :furious:
Thanks

Loophole that helped evil bully

Date
July 9, 2011

John Silvester

There's no place among us for James Ramage, now free after serving his time for strangling his wife.

James Ramage walks free after serving eight years for the manslaughter of his wife Julie.

IMAGINE grabbing a large jar from your pantry only to find it won't open. You apply all your strength but it stubbornly refuses to move. So you try again, squeezing for 10, 20 and finally 40 seconds, then it gives way.

Your arms ache and your wrists hurt, but then there is fleeting satisfaction over a minor victory.

Now imagine using the same strength while having those hands around someone's throat - a person flailing against you, fighting for life.
James Ramage leaves Beechworth Prison yesterday.

James Ramage leaves Beechworth Prison yesterday.
<modsnip>

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/loophole-that-helped-evil-bully-20110708-1h6ns.html#ixzz2DvdqBlyo
 

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Hi Mods
I know this is O/T - Are we able to start a thread re Ramage or leave here?
Has some similarities re what Allison went through :furious:

Loophole that helped evil bullyDate July 9, 2011 by John Silvester

There's no place among us for James Ramage, now free after serving his time for strangling his wife.
James Ramage walks free after serving eight years for the manslaughter of his wife Julie.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/loophole-that-helped-evil-bully-20110708-1h6ns.html#ixzz2DvdqBlyo
Agree with John Silvester: "there is no place among us for James Ramage". It does have similarities with Allison's case. Julie was allegedly a victim of Violence in the home before she was murdered.

www.heraldsun.com.au Killer on parole uses an alias:
[...Ramage admitted that he had strangled the mother of his two children after he had bashed her at their family home.
He then buried her in a shallow grave near Kinglake...].

Following widespread community outrage over his Sentence, Provocation laws were changed in Victoria.

The Victorian Adult Parole Board is an independent statutory body established under the Corrections Act 1986.
The General Manager of the Victorian Parole Board is Mr. David Provan.
The address of the Victorian Adult Parole Board is:-
Adult Parole Board of Victoria
4/444 Swanston St
Carlton VIC 3053
Tel: 03 9094 2111
Email: apb.enquiries@justice.vic.gov.au
 
I drove over the bridge yesterday for the 1st time; tears welled up when I saw all the flowers I've been reading about for the past 7 months. Heartfelt thanks to all the WS members keeping them fresh.
 
We just came back from the Christmas Tree lighting and they were there on the way in, but he said 'they've all gone' and I was already over the bridge at that time. I will check also and let you guys know.

Council removed them perhaps? Not happy if that's the case. So very appreciative of those who have been there to put those flowers there to honour Alison.
 
Have driven past Arthur Gorrie and its neighbours several times a week for the past few months thanks to a temporary relocation and i can tell you there sure aren't any flowers there
 
Have driven past Arthur Gorrie and its neighbours several times a week for the past few months thanks to a temporary relocation and i can tell you there sure aren't any flowers there

I was told this week that the "rookie" cops that were first on scene at GBC's saw all the scratches on his face and called for more senior police straight away. The senior guy said that they had to stop NBC as he was going down the outside stairs with a vacuum, he had a lot of questions about that. Very credible. IMO.
 
I have provided the address of the Victorian Parole Board above for anyone who wants to write to them to protest the lenient sentancing.
 
So he was in Beechworth Prison. Nice cushy gig he had there then. :furious:

Hi Mods
I know this is O/T - Are we able to start a thread re Ramage or leave here?
Has some similarities re what Allison went through :furious:
Thanks

Loophole that helped evil bully

Date
July 9, 2011

John Silvester

There's no place among us for James Ramage, now free after serving his time for strangling his wife.

James Ramage walks free after serving eight years for the manslaughter of his wife Julie.

IMAGINE grabbing a large jar from your pantry only to find it won't open. You apply all your strength but it stubbornly refuses to move. So you try again, squeezing for 10, 20 and finally 40 seconds, then it gives way.

Your arms ache and your wrists hurt, but then there is fleeting satisfaction over a minor victory.

Now imagine using the same strength while having those hands around someone's throat - a person flailing against you, fighting for life.
James Ramage leaves Beechworth Prison yesterday.

James Ramage leaves Beechworth Prison yesterday.
<modsnip>

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/loophole-that-helped-evil-bully-20110708-1h6ns.html#ixzz2DvdqBlyo
 
I was told this week that the "rookie" cops that were first on scene at GBC's saw all the scratches on his face and called for more senior police straight away. The senior guy said that they had to stop NBC as he was going down the outside stairs with a vacuum, he had a lot of questions about that. Very credible. IMO.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rookie" cops. We don't have "rookie" cops in Australia. The police, irrespective of what state in Australia, are trained for a period of 16 weeks (depending on what state in Australia they are in) and once they graduate, they are fully fledged police men and women. Yes, there is a chain of command within the police force but if a police officer is called to a situation, they are expected to handle that situation on their own merit and not necessarily call in senior police. It is only when it is not within the realms of the general duties police officer, e.g. homicide, arson, armed robbery etc. that a specialised squad, trained in these particular situations is called in.

Thanks for the information AAAA, particularly in regard to NBC. IMO it is all just rumour at this stage but we only have to wait a few more months now until we hopefully will learn the full story. :twocents:
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "rookie" cops. We don't have "rookie" cops in Australia. The police, irrespective of what state in Australia, are trained for a period of 16 weeks (depending on what state in Australia they are in) and once they graduate, they are fully fledged police men and women. Yes, there is a chain of command within the police force but if a police officer is called to a situation, they are expected to handle that situation on their own merit and not necessarily call in senior police. It is only when it is not within the realms of the general duties police officer, e.g. homicide, arson, armed robbery etc. that a specialised squad, trained in these particular situations is called in...

Speculating - sounds like those Constables (aka rookies) recognised the scratches on GBC's face as being indicative that a 'murder' may have taken place and called senior Police. Well done Constables. Good call.
NBC going down the outside stairs with a vacumn cleaner :furious:
IMO indicates his potential involvement in more areas than just at the roundabout that night. It was also alleged that he refused to hand over the content of the vacumn when asked by Police [posted in an earlier Thread]. If there was nothing to hide, he would have no trouble handing over the contents of that vacumn cleaner at that time.
Sadly, the girls as witnesses - if the girls were home at that time, then they would know if NBC vacumned mummy's bedroom and/or the car that morning.
All in my opinion only.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "rookie" cops. We don't have "rookie" cops in Australia. The police, irrespective of what state in Australia, are trained for a period of 16 weeks (depending on what state in Australia they are in) and once they graduate, they are fully fledged police men and women. Yes, there is a chain of command within the police force but if a police officer is called to a situation, they are expected to handle that situation on their own merit and not necessarily call in senior police. It is only when it is not within the realms of the general duties police officer, e.g. homicide, arson, armed robbery etc. that a specialised squad, trained in these particular situations is called in.

Thanks for the information AAAA, particularly in regard to NBC. IMO it is all just rumour at this stage but we only have to wait a few more months now until we hopefully will learn the full story. :twocents:

"Rookie" wasn't meant to offend, it was just a quicker way to explain that the first constables called in more senior police, I know that police are police.
 
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