Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[IBsleuthin]

I am sorry I wasn't here 2 days ago to warn you of the sensitive nature of photos.

It's ok, your beer drinking, TV watching kitteh made it all better. kay:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Don't be so hard on yourself. Your view of this crime is being clouded by the very simple and very common act of seeing yourself in Jodi's place.

How would YOU feel if a man called you those things? (maybe one has). And in seeing yourself in her place you can sympathize with her plight and therefore POSSIBLY??? justify what she did.

Maybe not quite to the extent to which JA allegedly did this but certainly you can see how it may happen.

Also, you are falling prey to the way JA looks. Whether we like to admit it or not, she looks like a frail, innocent girl. The defense might dress her but that chick knows exactly how to play the part.

I will guarantee that if JA was a heavy set, dirty haired chick sitting up there with a tear drop tattooed at the corner of her eye and the grim reaper tattooed on her neck with her greasy hair slicked back in a pony tail and a tongue piercing, we would all immediately say 'GUILTY'.

But she simply doesn't look hard.

As I say, don't be so hard on yourself, you are viewing all of this remotely through the TV or computer and it's distant from us anyway.

Wait, you may have hit on something here. Though I've never been called names such as those to my knowledge, I was broken hearted once in cruel way (not just a regular break-up). I know I've never forgiven that person for the disruption it caused in my otherwise happy young life. Maybe I just hate some men that come close to reminding me of the one I knew who disregarded my worth.

No, I could care less what JA looks like. I've been friends with all types throughout my life. Looks don't easily fool me or scare me.

 

[Sulamith]

This is so depressing.
What's with the string of emails between the husband and wife, the Hughes, and TA? Why aren't they allowed to be read outloud in their entirety in court?

Hearing about these emails causes me to wonder how or why TA could be so uncaring to another person too. Why use JA to the degree he did and treat her badly in public? Just because she let him? How is that such an upstanding person/gentlemen? I don't get it. Are people going to suggest that JA wrote those emails? Why would the couple have been concerned enough to write them to him in the first place?

Now I'm beginning to wonder what's wrong with me because I can understand how a person with a disorder could possibly be pushed to extreme behavior (not to excuse but to explain). Don't they have the "do onto others as you would want them to do unto you" saying in Mormonism?

On the other threads most people are bashing and name calling the new witness, Alyce L. I find that so disgusting and my stomach hurt after I read over there for awhile. Where's the compassion for her? All she is doing is testifying according to her expertise. It's her truth and a way to look at how people may develop the way they do. They're calling her a has been from the 70's, etc. So what happens if one ever crosses a person who posts like this? This is troubling to me indeed. I have compassion for people who are treated unfairly and for people who are bullied.

Oh and we may as well get the stake ready for Jean C. They're ready to wish her ill will too for some reason. Nice.

BBM There is nothing wrong with you Woe.be.gone. I also can understand how a person could be pushed to the extreme. I do not want to get banned so I won't say anymore. (It was not going to be about you but about some players in this trial.) But, I have the same questions as you do and so does my DH so I have one person IRL to talk to about it.

 

[slanda]

This is so depressing.
What's with the string of emails between the husband and wife, the Hughes, and TA? Why aren't they allowed to be read outloud in their entirety in court?

Hearing about these emails causes me to wonder how or why TA could be so uncaring to another person too. Why use JA to the degree he did and treat her badly in public? Just because she let him? How is that such an upstanding person/gentlemen? I don't get it. Are people going to suggest that JA wrote those emails? Why would the couple have been concerned enough to write them to him in the first place?

Now I'm beginning to wonder what's wrong with me because I can understand how a person with a disorder could possibly be pushed to extreme behavior (not to excuse but to explain). Don't they have the "do onto others as you would want them to do unto you" saying in Mormonism?

On the other threads most people are bashing and name calling the new witness, Alyce L. I find that so disgusting and my stomach hurt after I read over there for awhile. Where's the compassion for her? All she is doing is testifying according to her expertise. It's her truth and a way to look at how people may develop the way they do. They're calling her a has been from the 70's, etc. So what happens if one ever crosses a person who posts like this? This is troubling to me indeed. I have compassion for people who are treated unfairly and for people who are bullied.

Oh and we may as well get the stake ready for Jean C. They're ready to wish her ill will too for some reason. Nice.

I understand and I feel the same way.

 

[SMK]

This is so depressing.
What's with the string of emails between the husband and wife, the Hughes, and TA? Why aren't they allowed to be read outloud in their entirety in court?

Hearing about these emails causes me to wonder how or why TA could be so uncaring to another person too. Why use JA to the degree he did and treat her badly in public? Just because she let him? How is that such an upstanding person/gentlemen? I don't get it. Are people going to suggest that JA wrote those emails? Why would the couple have been concerned enough to write them to him in the first place?

Now I'm beginning to wonder what's wrong with me because I can understand how a person with a disorder could possibly be pushed to extreme behavior (not to excuse but to explain). Don't they have the "do onto others as you would want them to do unto you" saying in Mormonism?

On the other threads most people are bashing and name calling the new witness, Alyce L. I find that so disgusting and my stomach hurt after I read over there for awhile. Where's the compassion for her? All she is doing is testifying according to her expertise. It's her truth and a way to look at how people may develop the way they do. They're calling her a has been from the 70's, etc. So what happens if one ever crosses a person who posts like this? This is troubling to me indeed. I have compassion for people who are treated unfairly and for people who are bullied.

Oh and we may as well get the stake ready for Jean C. They're ready to wish her ill will too for some reason. Nice.

Your post reminded me of how I have had to "harden myself" , not only with watching criminal cases but with life in general. I too have a complex nature which sees both sides of things and as you know, this can drive one crazy. I can't even look at a lot of things in the newspaper for fear I will be drawn into feeling sorry for both sides or wondering if things are as black and white as they have been made to appear.

I don't like bashing one side and painting the other side as angelic, either- bothered me during the Casey Anthony trial that experts called for the defense were all dismissed or made fun of. I hear you. Been there. Recall that Websleuths is a victim friendly website so in order to discuss the victim it is best to venture onto other sites. (I just found this in the past, with my own posting here about various cases)

Insofar as Travis goes, I had many questions about him from the start and his Mormonism puts an extra onus on him: the crime scene photos make me sympathize deeply with him, and yet I too had questions as to why he became involved as he did and what motivated some of it. I began my posting here with serious questions about his relating to women but soon learned it was counter-productive.

In any case, I understand your questions.

 

[crimesnooper]

When Jodi told LV about the pics (of children and of *advertiser censored*) computer forensics were sent to check his computer. They found nothing. You are telling me all that stuff is just hiding? When these things are checked for, they look at EVERYTHING. His cache, Internet history, deletions, everything. Not one thing was found. It is not just a TH saying something would have been found. Computer forensics are saying if it was ever there they would have found it. Juan also another computer expert coming.


And tell me, if Jodi really saw this why did she change her story? If it really happened, why the inconsistency? Did she mix up the word computer with the word bed? Juan also proved that on the day in question, Jan 21. they never even saw each other that day. She could not have seen him when she said she did.

So, for all those for some weird reason giving this horrible lie any credence, ask yourself: why does Jodi need so badly for us to believe that this man was a pedophile? The man she supposedly spent years "protecting" and avoiding "de-edifying."

At some point, you have to start applying Occam's razor. The simplest answer is usually the right one. If no *advertiser censored* was found on Travis' computer, it's because it was never there.

Thanks for your info. Mine were really questions. I was not sure(did not watch the beginning of the trial) if there was testimony about the how completely they serached his computer. But the reason some of us might not completely dismiss her claim is that he was leading in a sense a double life. And I was hoping someone more versed in that area( how pediphiles first present)could shed some light on what the talking heads are saying. And I'm not saying I beleive her..but I do wonder on this point. NOT that it negates what I feel she has done..premeditaed murder.

 

[SMK]

Thanks for your info. Mine were really questions. I was not sure(did not watch the beginning of the trial) if there was testimony about the how completely they serached his computer. But the reason some of us might not completely dismiss her claim is that he was leading in a sense a double life. And I was hoping someone more versed in that area( how pediphiles first present)could shed some light on what the talking heads are saying. And I'm not saying I beleive her..but I do wonder on this point. NOT that it negates what I feel she has done..premeditaed murder.

I agree.

There is no evidence supporting the claim that Travis had any pedophilia tendencies or behavior. So it is highly likely that this is more of Jodi's character assassination attempts. Nor would it excuse premeditated murder even if founded in empirical evidence.

That said, as he was leading a double life there is nothing wrong with examining the claim.

I don't think Travis has the features indicated in this profile: I think he was far too gregarious, assertive, congenial, etc. Just what I have been able to glean thus far.

PERSONALITY TRAITS OF THE PEDOPHILE

From A Profile of Pedophilia:
Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism,
Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues
RYAN C. W. HALL, MD, AND RICHARD C. W. HALL, MD, PA

It is difficult to present a classic personality pattern for
pedophilia because of the various subgroups that exist.53

Some individuals who have pedophilia are able to present
themselves as psychologically normal during examination
or superficial encounters, even though they have severe
underlying personality disorders.6,46,54 Studies have shown
that people with pedophilia generally experience feelings
of inferiority, isolation or loneliness, low self-esteem, internal dysphoria, and emotional immaturity. They have
difficulty with mature age-appropriate interpersonal interactions, particularly because of their reduced assertiveness,
elevated levels of passive-aggressivity, and increased anger or hostility.5,23,27,28,55-63 These traits lead to difficulty
dealing with painful affect, which results in the excessive
use of the major defense mechanisms of intellectualization,
denial, cognitive distortion (eg, manipulation of fact), and
rationalization.6,24,46,53,56,62 Even though pedophiles often
have difficulty with interpersonal relationships, 50% or
more will marry at some point in their lives.15,32,53,55,56,61,64

http://www.abusewatch.net/pedophiles.pdf

 

[shelley921]

Ask yourself this: if the email really said what was suggested, why didn't the defense call Sky Hughes themselves to explain it? Wait until Sky Hughes is called in rebuttal to explain what this email meant. I have a feeling that she was bluffing to get Jodi away from Travis, or Jodi was lying on Travis when the Hughes' told her they didn't like her and just told her to leave him then. When the Hughes were presented with pedophile letters Travis supposedly wrote, they were shocked and saddened. When they learned they were forgeries, they were pizzed. I would bet money it's the same situation here.

Two of Travis' exes have take the stand and they both said he was kind, respectful, attentive and never ever treated them bad. I trust them more than anyone else because they were actually in a relationship with him. Why was the Jodi the only one to get the very worst of Travis? It makes no sense.

BBM - yes good point. I bet this is the case. What I remember hearing was that the Hughes told Travis not to bring Jodi to their home anymore - they did not like her or want her around their children.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Wait, you may have hit on something here. Though I've never been called names such as those to my knowledge, I was broken hearted once in cruel way (not just a regular break-up). I know I've never forgiven that person for the disruption it caused in my otherwise happy young life. Maybe I just hate some men that come close to reminding me of the one I knew who disregarded my worth.

No, I could care less what JA looks like. I've been friends with all types throughout my life. Looks don't easily fool me or scare me.

It does sound like this trial may have hit an old emotional wound in you. Without even realizing it, you may have identified more with JA than the victim, TA. It has touched some old wounds in me also. I was raped one time. He was a man in my office who I went out with once. But I knew it would be my word against his and I couldn't prove it in a court. So I had to see him at work, afterwords, but couldn't talk about what he did to me for fear of also losing my job.

Another time, a psychologist who I was being seen by for a problem having to do with sex, tried to have sex with ME in his office! When I stopped his advances, he tried to make me feel like there was something wrong with ME, by saying he had never seen a person before who could turn their feelings on and off like a faucet. Well I did because I knew it was wrong and would destroy our doctor/patient relationship. I never went back to see again after that day. I wanted to report his unethical behavior to whoever licenses him, but again, it was my word against his.

I felt powerless in these two incidents against the men. My anger at them has only grown in the time since. So these are some of my own emotional buttons. Perhaps I identify too strongly with JA and how and why she did what she did to Travis. She took her rage and anger to the criminal level, something I don't think I could do.

 

[SMK]

It does sound like this trial may have hit an old emotional wound in you. Without even realizing it, you may have identified more with JA than the victim, TA. It has touched some old wounds in me also. I was raped one time. He was a man in my office who I went out with once. But I knew it would be my word against his and I couldn't prove it in a court. So I had to see him at work, afterwords, but couldn't talk about what he did to me for fear of also losing my job.

Another time, a psychologist who I was being seen by for a problem having to do with sex, tried to have sex with ME in his office! When I stopped his advances, he tried to make me feel like there was something wrong with ME, by saying he had never seen a person before who could turn their feelings on and off like a faucet. Well I did because I knew it was wrong and would destroy our doctor/patient relationship. I never went back to see again after that day. I wanted to report his unethical behavior to whoever licenses him, but again, it was my word against his.

I felt powerless in these two incidents against the men. My anger at them has only grown in the time since. So these are some of my own emotional buttons. Perhaps I identify too strongly with JA and how and why she did what she did to Travis. She took her rage and anger to the criminal level, something I don't think I could do.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, and I'm sorry that you had to go through such horrible ordeals.

I too have noticed some old trauma wounds resurfacing with this case: Yes, it makes one imagine being JA and begins to color perceptions:

But when I watch youtbube footage of her she does not come across as I believe I would (I think I would be more sad and subdued) and I too do not think murder would have been my reaction to abandonment by TA (probably deep depression).

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Your post reminded me of how I have had to "harden myself" , not only with watching criminal cases but with life in general. I too have a complex nature which sees both sides of things and as you know, this can drive one crazy. I can't even look at a lot of things in the newspaper for fear I will be drawn into feeling sorry for both sides or wondering if things are as black and white as they have been made to appear.

I don't like bashing one side and painting the other side as angelic, either- bothered me during the Casey Anthony trial that experts called for the defense were all dismissed or made fun of. I hear you. Been there. Recall that Websleuths is a victim friendly website so in order to discuss the victim it is best to venture onto other sites. (I just found this in the past, with my own posting here about various cases)

Insofar as Travis goes, I had many questions about him from the start and his Mormonism puts an extra onus on him: the crime scene photos make me sympathize deeply with him, and yet I too had questions as to why he became involved as he did and what motivated some of it. I began my posting here with serious questions about his relating to women but soon learned it was counter-productive.

In any case, I understand your questions.

I'm of the same mind as you on your post. Some of the talking head commentators on TV are now making fun of the defense witnesses. I heard AL compared to the maid on The Brady Bunch (her looks I assume). But maybe they are all out of anything new to say and have to say something on air and stuff like that slips out. It's still unprofessional.

Very few things in life, especially people's motives and actions, are black and white. There are shades of gray in all of us. I see many of those shades in this crime. To me, Travis was a very complex man who had a fling with a complex woman, which resulted in a toxic mixture. His Mormonism played a much larger part in his psyche than a lot of people believe, IMO.

I question if he truly ever wanted to get married. I think his friends pressured him about it, always trying to find "the one" for him. They seemed to be trying harder than him to find her. I noticed his last blog was about finding a wife. I can see Jodi reading that over and over, making her angrier and angrier. He wanted a woman to look up to and admire him and help find the gold in him. She might have thought, "didn't I do that?" Yet he spurned her. And she just couldn't take that.

 

[lil_buddy]

It does sound like this trial may have hit an old emotional wound in you. Without even realizing it, you may have identified more with JA than the victim, TA. It has touched some old wounds in me also. I was raped one time. He was a man in my office who I went out with once. But I knew it would be my word against his and I couldn't prove it in a court. So I had to see him at work, afterwords, but couldn't talk about what he did to me for fear of also losing my job.

Another time, a psychologist who I was being seen by for a problem having to do with sex, tried to have sex with ME in his office! When I stopped his advances, he tried to make me feel like there was something wrong with ME, by saying he had never seen a person before who could turn their feelings on and off like a faucet. Well I did because I knew it was wrong and would destroy our doctor/patient relationship. I never went back to see again after that day. I wanted to report his unethical behavior to whoever licenses him, but again, it was my word against his.

I felt powerless in these two incidents against the men. My anger at them has only grown in the time since. So these are some of my own emotional buttons. Perhaps I identify too strongly with JA and how and why she did what she did to Travis. She took her rage and anger to the criminal level, something I don't think I could do.

Please file a report with the licensing board even if you don't have proof. They will investigate and if several women come forward, they will at least file some sort of disciplinary action. Also, you could review him on yelp, avvo, www.healthgrades.com, www.ratemds.com, www.vitals.com.

You could be helping your fellow women to avoid that s(umbag.

 

[SMK]

I'm of the same mind as you on your post. Some of the talking head commentators on TV are now making fun of the defense witnesses. I heard AL compared to the maid on The Brady Bunch (her looks I assume). But maybe they are all out of anything new to say and have to say something on air and stuff like that slips out. It's still unprofessional.

Very few things in life, especially people's motives and actions, are black and white. There are shades of gray in all of us. I see many of those shades in this crime. To me, Travis was a very complex man who had a fling with a complex woman, which resulted in a toxic mixture. His Mormonism played a much larger part in his psyche than a lot of people believe, IMO.

I question if he truly ever wanted to get married. I think his friends pressured him about it, always trying to find "the one" for him. They seemed to be trying harder than him to find her. I noticed his last blog was about finding a wife. I can see Jodi reading that over and over, making her angrier and angrier. He wanted a woman to look up to and admire him and help find the gold in him. She might have thought, "didn't I do that?" Yet he spurned her. And she just couldn't take that.

Yes, agreed.

As for what I bolded in your post above: I could not agree more:

I think his last blog post of May 18 was for JA highly, highly incendiary and I think it may have "driven her over the edge" more than the email of May 26! Wholly agree!

 

[shelley921]

Please file a report with the licensing board even if you don't have proof. They will investigate and if several women come forward, they will at least file some sort of disciplinary action. Also, you could review him on yelp, avvo, www.healthgrades.com, www.ratemds.com, www.vitals.com.

You could be helping your fellow women to avoid that s(umbag.

YES - please heed this good advice. If some previous woman had reported this creep maybe YOU would not have been victimized.

 

[SMK]

Please file a report with the licensing board even if you don't have proof. They will investigate and if several women come forward, they will at least file some sort of disciplinary action. Also, you could review him on yelp, avvo, www.healthgrades.com, www.ratemds.com, www.vitals.com.

You could be helping your fellow women to avoid that s(umbag.

Excellent point: He probably counts on non-reporting due to "his word against [unstable] client's": He should not be allowed to continue, and ShadyLadySleuth should not have had such an experience to begin with.

 

[Tiger09]

Maybe I'm different because while I've survived sexual abuse, when I look at Travis Alexander, I don't see a monster. I see one of my friends from college, one of my boyfriend's friends, a guy I might have worked with, hell he even resembles my older brother a bit. I've been in relationships where I've been used and I've done the using- no one escapes a relationship emotionally unscathed. It's just that this one is all public. I'm sure someone could twist anything that anyone's done into something evil to make them look bad- especially if they were facing the death penalty. Jodi played Travis, he figured it out and wanted out. She lost control so she planned a gruesome murder. She is capable of violent and evil rage. Let her out and another innocent person will die. I say innocent because Travis Alexander is not on trial- Jodi Arias is.

 

[SMK]

Maybe I'm different because while I've survived sexual abuse, when I look at Travis Alexander, I don't see a monster. I see one of my friends from college, one of my boyfriend's friends, a guy I might have worked with, hell he even resembles my older brother a bit. I've been in relationships where I've been used and I've done the using- no one escapes a relationship emotionally unscathed. It's just that this one is all public. I'm sure someone could twist anything that anyone's done into something evil to make them look bad- especially if they were facing the death penalty. Jodi played Travis, he figured it out and wanted out. She lost control so she planned a gruesome murder. She is capable of violent and evil rage. Let her out and another innocent person will die. I say innocent because Travis Alexander is not on trial- Jodi Arias is.

I agree- as I said, when I look at Jodi and her real persona and behavior, I no longer identify with her except in subtle and small ways.

 

[IBsleuthin]

It does sound like this trial may have hit an old emotional wound in you. Without even realizing it, you may have identified more with JA than the victim, TA. It has touched some old wounds in me also. I was raped one time. He was a man in my office who I went out with once. But I knew it would be my word against his and I couldn't prove it in a court. So I had to see him at work, afterwords, but couldn't talk about what he did to me for fear of also losing my job.

Another time, a psychologist who I was being seen by for a problem having to do with sex, tried to have sex with ME in his office! When I stopped his advances, he tried to make me feel like there was something wrong with ME, by saying he had never seen a person before who could turn their feelings on and off like a faucet. Well I did because I knew it was wrong and would destroy our doctor/patient relationship. I never went back to see again after that day. I wanted to report his unethical behavior to whoever licenses him, but again, it was my word against his.

I felt powerless in these two incidents against the men. My anger at them has only grown in the time since. So these are some of my own emotional buttons. Perhaps I identify too strongly with JA and how and why she did what she did to Travis. She took her rage and anger to the criminal level, something I don't think I could do.

Thank you for sharing these very personal details. From one human being to another I truly am sorry you have had these experiences in your life.

I have been learning to meditate and it has helped me greatly, part of a meditation I recently learned says this so I share this with you now...

"May you have love, May you have peace, may you have happiness."

 

[slanda]

Here is a link from an Arizona newspaper that further discusses the emails between the Hugheses and TA. The emails were discussed in a previous hearing.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...r-celebrity-becomes-issue.html?nclick_check=1

For fear of having to "duck and cover" I just left the link rather than describe the content of the emails.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks for your info. Mine were really questions. I was not sure(did not watch the beginning of the trial) if there was testimony about the how completely they serached his computer. But the reason some of us might not completely dismiss her claim is that he was leading in a sense a double life. And I was hoping someone more versed in that area( how pediphiles first present)could shed some light on what the talking heads are saying. And I'm not saying I beleive her..but I do wonder on this point. NOT that it negates what I feel she has done..premeditaed murder.

Despite all of JA's lies, there was one comment she made when she was on the stand that struck me as raw and real. It was like a flash of truth or something and I haven't been able to dismiss it from my mind. I hope somebody else remembers this too. I wish I had written down the date when she said this and exactly what she said. Prosecution was asking about the pedaphile accusation (but maybe not - it may be that she inserted an extra comment not directly tied to the question asked). I can't recall the exact context. Suddenly, JA's body language changed and she said something like - 'that's the day everything in our relationship changed'. Something about the way JA said that struck me as being truly genuine; I sensed real sadness in her expression.

It was as if she had uncovered something that even her boundaries, or lack thereof, couldn't justify or overlook.