ARREST!!! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#23

[Trooper]

I doubt Mr CLay will be making any decisions regarding his children visiting him in the watch house. That will be a matter for the Prison Manager to decide..

 

[The Dark Shadow]

I am just feeling so teary tonight.....The Morcombe's are just so very giving. How anyone could think them bad shocks me. They have been to hell and back and I think they will play through the "what if's" for the rest of their lives. The thought of not knowing for so long.....and then the knowing of something so awful befalling your own babe,.....well we all know, there just couldnt be anything worse.

I am not at all surprised they are willing to help the SHEs.....Just so teary tonight

100% agree :thumb: The Morcombes are true heroes IMO.

Nads, personally, I think that their is a big difference between supporting and loving a person and rejecting something horrid that they have done. I believe that you can still love a person and support them, but despise what they have done. It would be wrong for a parent to try and make out someone to be innocent if they knew that they were guilty.......but it is not wrong in my opinion for a parent that has accepted their child's guilt to support them in whatever way is needed. It is something called "unconditional love" and the support wouldn't involve trying to get them off for something they are guilty of. It would involve lovingly encourage them to confess if they are indeed guilty. It would involve sitting in the court room during the trial. It would involve visiting them in prison, writing them letters, being there if they ring you. It could involve sending in whatever they need whilst in prison or carrying out personal business for them or putting money into their prison account as required and allowed. Believe me .......it takes love to do these things for a prisoner. That love can speak volumes to that prisoner's heart in very positive ways even though it has come from someone who intensely dislikes whatever horrid act they have committed. If a prisoner becomes remorseful for their crime and wants to change their ways and their life..........they need the helping hand of unconditional love to support them through. This is obviously just my opinion and thoughts. I can understand if others may struggle with this idea and have a different opinion which of course they are entitled to.

While I am posting, I just wanted to say thanks to those who answered my questions in previous posts and responded to my posts. Again my "thanks" post wasn't working again and I wasn't in a position at the time to individually respond to the posts. So thank you!

What an absolutely beautiful post. Thank you, Seeking :hug:

 

[Seeking]

Yes because he is not booked in at the Hilton.

Just because they might be used to getting what they want when they demand it doesnt work like that.

Even tho this isnt law I think if you kill the childrens mother you should lose the right to have visits from your children. The girls will be old enough when he gets out to make that choice.

I understand the sentiment Bayside expresses in regards to "losing the right to have visits from your children because of what you have done". However, I believe that it wouldn't be impossible that the girls may one day still want to see their father. I believe that people respond differently to these types of trauma's, and I am sure that their responses and feelings my fluctuate over time throughout their lives. The reality is that he is still their father and they may still love him despite this horrid crime that he is alleged to have committed.

I am reminded of a beautiful woman who I know. She is now a grandmother and has endured horrible pain in her life. Her mother died of natural causes when she was around 7. After this time she endured unspeakable abuse at the hands of her father over several years. She never reported it as to do so she would have also lost her father....She was the victim of serious jailable offences. The thought of losing her father despite her abuse was unbearable to her. Despite her pain she kept that feeling for the remainder of his life until she herself was well and truly a grandmother several times over. She hated what he did to her, but she still loved him. She forgave him from the depths of her heart. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. In forgiving him she made herself whole and removed the bitterness from her heart. She grew to be a compassionate and beautiful woman who was able to help others and give of herself. This was part of her healing. The pain of her hurts is deep within her and does surface at times throughout her life, yet she still forgives. Without forgiveness her pain is worse.

Obviously just my opinion and one perspective on this situation. Hoping and praying that the girls will heal of these deep hearts and grow to be the beautiful young women that Allison was raising them to be.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I understand the sentiment Bayside expresses in regards to "losing the right to have visits from your children because of what you have done". However, I believe that it wouldn't be impossible that the girls may one day still want to see their father. I believe that people respond differently to these types of trauma's, and I am sure that their responses and feelings my fluctuate over time throughout their lives. The reality is that he is still their father and they may still love him despite this horrid crime that he is alleged to have committed.

I am reminded of a beautiful woman who I know. She is now a grandmother and has endured horrible pain in her life. Her mother died of natural causes when she was around 7. After this time she endured unspeakable abuse at the hands of her father over several years. She never reported it as to do so she would have also lost her father....She was the victim of serious jailable offences. The thought of losing her father despite her abuse was unbearable to her. Despite her pain she kept that feeling for the remainder of his life until she herself was well and truly a grandmother several times over. She hated what he did to her, but she still loved him. She forgave him from the depths of her heart. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. In forgiving him she made herself whole and removed the bitterness from her heart. She grew to be a compassionate and beautiful woman who was able to help others and give of herself. This was part of her healing. The pain of her hurts is deep within her and does surface at times throughout her life, yet she still forgives. Without forgiveness her pain is worse.

Obviously just my opinion and one perspective on this situation. Hoping and praying that the girls will heal of these deep hearts and grow to be the beautiful young women that Allison was raising them to be.

Seeking, you write such beautiful, heartfelt and compassionate posts. Thank you.

You even made me have to log back in just to post this, before I once again head off to bed..

 

[Makara]

interfering with a corpse....


what manner of 'man' is this?

IMO Trooper, the interference with a corpse means that GBC allegedly murdered Allison at their home and then removed her dead body to the Kholo Creek area. It is a crime to remove a body from it's final resting place without the 'signing off' of a doctor, police etc. For example, if a family member, who has been ill for months, dies in your home due to the illness and you decide to bury them in the backyard without notifying authorities of their death, you could and probably would be charged with interference of a corpse.

 

[CaseClosed]

I think that you're completely right - they were bluffing about the whole no accomplices thing. But further to this, I've just spent the past hour searching for the posts (this thread and particularly the last) that I read last night/this morning and I can't find them. I know that I read numerous posts about no more arrests will be made (links and all) and posters discussing this! I've got the flu and am not 'with it' completely, but I'm fairly sure that 'anything' about this is not there any more, that's why some 'regulars' just signing in tonight, have not heard this at all.

I was here yesterday and last night, read all the previous thread and this one, and the first I heard of "no more arrest" was this evening. I don't believe it was mentioned yesterday or this morning at all.

 

[XyzQuestions]

It certainly is most odd that it came to light that Allison didnt attend the cross country event (rumoured and I cant remember if that ws wednesday or thursday)......and she didnt attend "classroom help" for her children on the wednesday (though he did)..He did go to the doctor and went to the chemist on the Thursday morning.

Could he have been texting Kerry Anne Walker....pretending he was Allison on the Thursday.....He may have known fully well that he had to report her missing on the friday morning, because he committed (pretending on text message) to Kerry Anne, that she was going to bring items to KAWs home on the friday afternoon.

Certainly is suss!!!

Hi again. Allison picked the girls up from school on the Thursday afternoon. She spoke to one of the other mums at that time who has given a statement to the police.
I have a point to discuss though I am not sure if it has already discussed in early threads. It's about her clothes and GBC story of either Allison going for a late night walk or watching tv. I agree with other locals that have posted that no one in their right mind would walk around Brookfield late at night because there are not many street lights. If she went for a walk at night to get out of the house because of an argument it is unlikely that she would go and get changed into walking clothes first. I am not sure but she may have had different clothes on when she picked up the girls from school. I was wondering if the clothes she was found in might have been put on her after she was murdered. If GBC had not seen her go out for this supposed walk how would he know exactly what she was wearing when he reported her missing on the Friday? I have been trying to think of flaws in his story to the police. Has anyone else discussed this?

 

[Trooper]

He must have undressed her and dressed her again.. interference with a corpse?

 

[Makara]

I understand the sentiment Bayside expresses in regards to "losing the right to have visits from your children because of what you have done". However, I believe that it wouldn't be impossible that the girls may one day still want to see their father. I believe that people respond differently to these types of trauma's, and I am sure that their responses and feelings my fluctuate over time throughout their lives. The reality is that he is still their father and they may still love him despite this horrid crime that he is alleged to have committed.

I am reminded of a beautiful woman who I know. She is now a grandmother and has endured horrible pain in her life. Her mother died of natural causes when she was around 7. After this time she endured unspeakable abuse at the hands of her father over several years. She never reported it as to do so she would have also lost her father....She was the victim of serious jailable offences. The thought of losing her father despite her abuse was unbearable to her. Despite her pain she kept that feeling for the remainder of his life until she herself was well and truly a grandmother several times over. She hated what he did to her, but she still loved him. She forgave him from the depths of her heart. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. In forgiving him she made herself whole and removed the bitterness from her heart. She grew to be a compassionate and beautiful woman who was able to help others and give of herself. This was part of her healing. The pain of her hurts is deep within her and does surface at times throughout her life, yet she still forgives. Without forgiveness her pain is worse.

Obviously just my opinion and one perspective on this situation. Hoping and praying that the girls will heal of these deep hearts and grow to be the beautiful young women that Allison was raising them to be.

BBM.

Seeking, please give that beautiful woman you know a warm and loving hug whenever you can. :hug:

 

[CaseClosed]

Up until he was taken in by the police and charged, GBC had said nothing to the police other than the initial report that ABC was missing.

Of course we don't know what, if anything, he said to the police when he was arrested and questioned. If he did answer any questions with anything other than "no comment", it is possible that police are trying to verify statements he made about his activities on 18 April.

If the police believe that there was premeditation and intent to murder ABC, they might be attempting to prove that GBC's movements and actions on 18 April were linked in some way to the murder. JMO.

One of the TV news reporters said yesterday that GBC did not say a word whilst being held at the Indro police station. He maintained his silence.

 

[Trooper]

he can maintain his silence till the grave...

it must be killing Gerard to be without his wretched cellphone.. how they surgically removed it from his ear is a complete mystery to me, but I love it. shutup and sitdown, Gerard. your days of talking are over.

 

[CaseClosed]

Yep apparently this is the case. GBC, being the girl's legal guardian, can make an application for the children to visit. IMO this is outrageous! Doesn't he lose all rights once he is incarcerated or does that only come into play if he is convicted? Now that Allison's parents have been granted custody of the girls, doesn't GBC forfeit his rights as legal guardian?

Me thinks I need to go Google. :banghead:

The Dickies have only temporary custody until Monday, when further arrangements may be made. This is what they said yesterday on TV news.

GBC doesn't seem to be in a stable emotional state right now, which am sure would have a bearing on any visitation agreements.

 

[Bayside]

I understand the sentiment Bayside expresses in regards to "losing the right to have visits from your children because of what you have done". However, I believe that it wouldn't be impossible that the girls may one day still want to see their father. I believe that people respond differently to these types of trauma's, and I am sure that their responses and feelings my fluctuate over time throughout their lives. The reality is that he is still their father and they may still love him despite this horrid crime that he is alleged to have committed.

I am reminded of a beautiful woman who I know. She is now a grandmother and has endured horrible pain in her life. Her mother died of natural causes when she was around 7. After this time she endured unspeakable abuse at the hands of her father over several years. She never reported it as to do so she would have also lost her father....She was the victim of serious jailable offences. The thought of losing her father despite her abuse was unbearable to her. Despite her pain she kept that feeling for the remainder of his life until she herself was well and truly a grandmother several times over. She hated what he did to her, but she still loved him. She forgave him from the depths of her heart. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. In forgiving him she made herself whole and removed the bitterness from her heart. She grew to be a compassionate and beautiful woman who was able to help others and give of herself. This was part of her healing. The pain of her hurts is deep within her and does surface at times throughout her life, yet she still forgives. Without forgiveness her pain is worse.

Obviously just my opinion and one perspective on this situation. Hoping and praying that the girls will heal of these deep hearts and grow to be the beautiful young women that Allison was raising them to be.

I understand what you are saying and I bet they will want to see him at stages when they are older. I just dont think they should be forced to go to keep him happy.

My father was accused of killing my mother but not charged as there was not enough evidence, her body was never found so that made it more difficult. He did the "she went for a walk and never came home " line too.

Anyway we were forced to stay with him until my grandmother stepped in. Now I remember this man being cruel, abusive and full of hate, evil man.

When I was older I did want some contact with him, dont know why but I did. It did not end well but I gave it a go. I have hated this man for as long as I can remember, to the point of it making me very bitter.

I avoided all family events where I knew he would be. Anyway when I had kids they didnt have any grandparents and I felt guilty about that esp as he lived a 15 min drive away. I did not tell my young children about my history with him.

I took them to a family event where he was and they met him and did this more often so they had a chance to know him. Over time I watched him carefully with my kids and I can honestly say that he really loved them. He ended up being a wonderful grandfather and my kids loved him.

We had a falling out about ten years ago and I have only spoken to him once at my brothers funeral, real awkward then again I ran into him on Mothers Day visiting my Nan. When my daughter had children she asked me would I be upset if she contacted him and let him see her kids. To be honest I felt betrayed as now an adult she knew what he did and still wanted to see him, double standards I know. Of course I told her it didnt bother me but it bothered me very single time haha. When she would talk about him I said I dont want to hear about him.

Anyway my daughter sees him often and he is a big part of her childrens life, he has taken them all over the world on holidays. When I saw him with them I again saw the deep love I saw when he was with my kids.

Funny thing is he is visiting my daughter in the morning and she wants me to come and bring my other two kids as he hasnt seen them in 10 years. I dont know if I will go, this case had made old feelings come up again for me so I will see.

It is probably about time to just forgive him and let it go.

 

[Makara]

Hi again. Allison picked the girls up from school on the Thursday afternoon. She spoke to one of the other mums at that time who has given a statement to the police.
I have a point to discuss though I am not sure if it has already discussed in early threads. It's about her clothes and GBC story of either Allison going for a late night walk or watching tv. I agree with other locals that have posted that no one in their right mind would walk around Brookfield late at night because there are not many street lights. If she went for a walk at night to get out of the house because of an argument it is unlikely that she would go and get changed into walking clothes first. I am not sure but she may have had different clothes on when she picked up the girls from school. I was wondering if the clothes she was found in might have been put on her after she was murdered. If GBC had not seen her go out for this supposed walk how would he know exactly what she was wearing when he reported her missing on the Friday? I have been trying to think of flaws in his story to the police. Has anyone else discussed this?

I did discuss this a while back. I found it interesting that GBC could recall exactly what Allison was wearing the last time he supposedly saw her. MSM later reported what she was wearing as 'walking gear'. I did suggest that he may have (along with an accomplice) dress her in the clothes he described to police after he'd killed her to fit in with the 'gone for a walk' scenario.

Sometime later another WS member suggested that what Allison was wearing when she was found (and as described by GBC) could have in fact been her pj's, although looking more like comfy day wear as opposed to traditional pj's. To me, this makes perfect sense because I do it myself as do many other women I know.

IMO, Allison did not go for a walk that night but 'things fell into place' with GBC alleging that she did and what she was wearing seemed to confirm it, in the mind of MSM at least.

MOO.

 

[justice23]

I understand what you are saying and I bet they will want to see him at stages when they are older. I just dont think they should be forced to go to keep him happy.

My father was accused of killing my mother but not charged as there was not enough evidence, her body was never found so that made it more difficult. He did the "she went for a walk and never came home " line too.

Anyway we were forced to stay with him until my grandmother stepped in. Now I remember this man being cruel, abusive and full of hate, evil man.

When I was older I did want some contact with him, dont know why but I did. It did not end well but I gave it a go. I have hated this man for as long as I can remember, to the point of it making me very bitter.

I avoided all family events where I knew he would be. Anyway when I had kids they didnt have any grandparents and I felt guilty about that esp as he lived a 15 min drive away. I did not tell my young children about my history with him.

I took them to a family event where he was and they met him and did this more often so they had a chance to know him. Over time I watched him carefully with my kids and I can honestly say that he really loved them. He ended up being a wonderful grandfather and my kids loved him.

We had a falling out about ten years ago and I have only spoken to him once at my brothers funeral, real awkward then again I ran into him on Mothers Day visiting my Nan. When my daughter had children she asked me would I be upset if she contacted him and let him see her kids. To be honest I felt betrayed as now an adult she knew what he did and still wanted to see him, double standards I know. Of course I told her it didnt bother me but it bothered me very single time haha. When she would talk about him I said I dont want to hear about him.

Anyway my daughter sees him often and he is a big part of her childrens life, he has taken them all over the world on holidays. When I saw him with them I again saw the deep love I saw when he was with my kids.

Funny thing is he is visiting my daughter in the morning and she wants me to come and bring my other two kids as he hasnt seen them in 10 years. I dont know if I will go, this case had made old feelings come up again for me so I will see.

It is probably about time to just forgive him and let it go.

:grouphug:

forgiveness is very complicated, every person deals with things in their own way. I think it is okay to not forgive someone who has hurt you, of course it will be great if we could forgive them and move on! but it is sooo personal and everyone deals with grief differently...

i envy people who can forgive someone who has hurt them deeply, but its ok for those of us that find it difficult to do so.

 

[Makara]

The Dickies have only temporary custody until Monday, when further arrangements may be made. This is what they said yesterday on TV news.

GBC doesn't seem to be in a stable emotional state right now, which am sure would have a bearing on any visitation agreements.

WHAT!! Oh no! I was feeling so relieved and thankful that the Dickies had custody of the girls. I hope these 'further arrangements' will extend their cusody indefinitely.

 

[Blue Bottle]

It is probably about time to just forgive him and let it go.

Some inspirational heart felt posts tonight and ones which show that there is always hope that people can move on forward in their own way, at their own pace and leave behind in some other place, a past which they cannot change.

Sweet Dreams.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

I understand the sentiment Bayside expresses in regards to "losing the right to have visits from your children because of what you have done". However, I believe that it wouldn't be impossible that the girls may one day still want to see their father. I believe that people respond differently to these types of trauma's, and I am sure that their responses and feelings my fluctuate over time throughout their lives. The reality is that he is still their father and they may still love him despite this horrid crime that he is alleged to have committed.

I am reminded of a beautiful woman who I know. She is now a grandmother and has endured horrible pain in her life. Her mother died of natural causes when she was around 7. After this time she endured unspeakable abuse at the hands of her father over several years. She never reported it as to do so she would have also lost her father....She was the victim of serious jailable offences. The thought of losing her father despite her abuse was unbearable to her. Despite her pain she kept that feeling for the remainder of his life until she herself was well and truly a grandmother several times over. She hated what he did to her, but she still loved him. She forgave him from the depths of her heart. It brings tears to my eyes thinking about it. In forgiving him she made herself whole and removed the bitterness from her heart. She grew to be a compassionate and beautiful woman who was able to help others and give of herself. This was part of her healing. The pain of her hurts is deep within her and does surface at times throughout her life, yet she still forgives. Without forgiveness her pain is worse.

Obviously just my opinion and one perspective on this situation. Hoping and praying that the girls will heal of these deep hearts and grow to be the beautiful young women that Allison was raising them to be.

Seeking, if you are not a writer, you should be! Another beautiful, yet heartbreaking post.

I am the child of a criminal, my mother. She has been in and out of prison (long term, 3-5yrs, each time) since i was about 7 years old, due to a heroin addiction and its associated crimes.

Thankfully, in my case, i had a wonderful Dad, who made up for my mothers complete emotional destruction by being eveything my siblings and i needed. He has since passed away, and on the day i lost him, i felt like i lost both of my parents.

As a child, until about the age of 15, i desperately clung to the hope that my mother would stop being the neglectful, spiteful, lieing, sneaky, self-centred and psychopathic person that she was, and miraculously turn into the type of mother that all of my friends had. Even at my young age, I knew that she had made the choice to hurt us, i knew that she was responsible for breaking my Dad's heart, my heart and my siblings hearts, yet, i remember at times that i would beg my Dad to get back together with her, in the hope of having a complete, happy family.

So yes, in my case, i did still want to see the parent who had destroyed all of our lives, even with the elementary understanding i had.

As i grew older, wiser and more aware of what we actually had to endure as a result of my mother choosing drugs over us, i began to resent her, and now, unfortunately, i feel almost nothing towards her. She has only seen one of my children, and i intend to keep it that way. I have no idea how i would feel if anything ever happened to her, or how i will react when she finally succumbs to the ill-health that is the result of her 'alternative' lifestyle. It's just sad, really!

Has it effected my adulthood? Absolutely! on the negative side, I have OCD, agoraphobia (both mild) and had a drinking problem when i was younger. In the middle ground, I am a paranoid wreck when it comes to protecting my own children... completely smother them with love I have to let them know how much i love them regularly, or i panic. They will be absolutely horrified when i embarrass them as teens, lol, but of course, this is also a good thing, as they know i am always there for them, and will love them unconditionally. On the absolutely positive side, i am a criminologist because of my experience, i am extremely empathetic (almosty to a fault), and i feel a strong social responsibility to fight for children's rights :heartbeat::scale:

I am sorry for the huge post. I started writing and it just all came billowing out :blushing:. Anyway, just my 2c, and all my personal opinion in order to highlight the experiences of a child with a rotten parent.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/352441/20120615/allison-baden-clay-murder-marriage-gerard.htm

By Arlene Paredes | June 15, 2012 11:46 AM EST

<snipped>

The young Allison was a talented ballerina who was with the Australian Youth ballet. She has travelled around Australia and the UK with the young ballet group. She spoke six languages.

At work, Allison worked the corporate ladder from being a sales assistant to human resources manager at the national level at Flight Centre.

 

[XyzQuestions]

He must have undressed her and dressed her again.. interference with a corpse?

I was thinking that maybe her original clothes may have his blood on them? So IMO and purely speculation on my part, he may have got rid of them?