Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #17

[Mani]

...before I go though! Do any locals recall if there was ANY rain/drizzle at all on the night/morning of Allisons' disappearance? Police may have noticed that it was dry under one vehicle (or trailer etc) and yet wet under the car/s.

Good question.

 

[spratsmum]

Interesting post mum73. This is my virgin post after reading all your posts for a couple of weeks with great interest. I agree that the angle being pushed from GBC side of the family all along has been - Allison was depressed. I know for a fact that this was communicated by OW to their church where her husband is a Pastor. Initially they requested prayer for 'a relative who had 3 small children who had gone missing and was depressed.' I can only assume this was what OW thought was true as she seemed to have a close relationship with ABC even though they lived a long way apart at the time of death. They used to live closer until a few years ago- the W family also lived in Brisbane. I don't think OW would or could be part of anything sinister. All just my opinion of course.

Isn't that an interesting way the prayer request was put, I am sure there would have been some publicity in Townsville and you would thought it would have been put in a mre personal way e.g "Olivia's SIL Allison, is missing and we ask for prayers for her and her three children".

 

[memorandumtopartner]

I def think Allison made sure she was found, you go girl.

Yes, indeed.

 

[mum73]

The phone situation troubles me too.

If the phone was intentionally disposed of, by the killer, then presumably it contains information that incriminates the killer.

ABCs phone would include regular correspondence with her husband so personally I don't see why GBC would need to dispose of her phone? And any correspondence between the two would be mirrored on GBCs phone so disposing of ABCs phone would only solve half the problem.

The only reason I could think of is that GBC may have (hypothetically) used ABCs phone to contact an accomplice.

Alternately the phone fell into the creek and is lost in the mud?

Or, lending support to an alternate theory - did ABC use the phone to contact someone else, and arrange a mystery meeting after GBC went to bed and before GBC reported her missing (a fellow Footy Show fan perhaps...). Thereby incriminating a 3rd party. In this case I believe police would have a record of the call/text (through telecoms records) but may be having difficulty identifying the owner of the number she contacted?

I'm keen to hear peoples theories as to what could be on that phone that made it so important to dispose of?

Maybe it's what it doesn't contain that's more incriminating! I wonder how many times he called his wifes' phone after he realised she was missing??
I think the perp only thought of the phone after dumping the body (or it would have been in the creek too); and that they disposed of it at a later date.

 

[CJ60]

Thanks for the info. It is good to get a perspective from someone who does know more about those areas.(I don't know the creek or the scout areas). The police searching those areas was after the body was found though wasn't it. Thats why I said they didn't search, when they were searching for Allison- I meant.

agree with your last comment.

Oh yes - that is what I meant, too. They searched up Bunya and Wirrabarra after Allison was found. I was hoping they may have found something that would have linked the cars to that area. The police may have some idea of where she was left, if she was left further upstream. Tyre marks were mentioned at one stage?

 

[CJ60]

My husband and I are avid boaters who spend nearly every weekend on the water in the bay. I am familiar with tides and variations with rainfall but did not know how different it is in creeks

My husband explained it to me last night in simple (aka dumba$$) terms lol. So I understand now that the water can get very high there. I def think Allison made sure she was found, you go girl.

So true... this is where my biblical post came in - someone upstairs thought 'get away with murder...not on my watch' and the heavens opened..

Hey - do you think a certain holy man would let me write his sermons?? Surely I would do a better job?

JMO

 

[Bayside]

Interesting post mum73. This is my virgin post after reading all your posts for a couple of weeks with great interest. I agree that the angle being pushed from GBC side of the family all along has been - Allison was depressed. I know for a fact that this was communicated by OW to their church where her husband is a Pastor. Initially they requested prayer for 'a relative who had 3 small children who had gone missing and was depressed.' I can only assume this was what OW thought was true as she seemed to have a close relationship with ABC even though they lived a long way apart at the time of death. They used to live closer until a few years ago- the W family also lived in Brisbane. I don't think OW would or could be part of anything sinister. All just my opinion of course.

I think any woman whos husband is out having sex with and having a relationship with another woman or women is entitled to be depressed.

Gerard would have been better off putting that energy (and it takes a LOT of time energy to cheat on you partner) into his troubled business.

If he had done that to begin with he might not be in this trouble now, to busy thinking with his willy not his brain.

 

[Aussie_expat.sg]

Originally Posted by mum73
...before I go though! Do any locals recall if there was ANY rain/drizzle at all on the night/morning of Allisons' disappearance? Police may have noticed that it was dry under one vehicle (or trailer etc) and yet wet under the car/s.

Good question.
QUOTE]

I wondered the same thing but for a different reason. I wondered if the rain washed away tracks, drag marks, etc.

 

[marlywings]

Hi first timer here, As I read your posts all sorts of things go through my head in regards to how one could remain so composed if they had in fact been party to such an inhumane act as ABC's murder. Firstly one would be so paranoid about talking to the accomplice/s, in case the conversation was being listened to i.e. listening devices being placed.At the same time the perps would feel an incredible need to support on another to vent and be sure the other was not crumbling with guilt IMO.Therefore it would be very much in their interest to find a 'Safe Space' to meet.What better place than the 5th. Story ?? of a highrise building with a shared reception (where visitors have to be announced, then accepted ) for his own privacy. Not to mention the security the place would have for the benefit of it's tenants. I would think he could even reject police through the receptionist , if he didn't want to see them. No chance of bugging the 'Safe place'. In my humble opinion people who are under survelance or suspicion (guilty or innocent) would need support and a 'Safe' place' to talk. What better place than the room he has chosen IMO.

Hello Mothergoose & welcome...that's a good point about him possibly hiding away on 5th floor...although I'm not sure he'd have a choice about rejecting police if they paid him a visit there??

 

[marlywings]

I wondered the same thing but for a different reason. I wondered if the rain washed away tracks, drag marks, etc.

On the night of 19th it was cloudy & dark..no moon (possumheart??), very light showers were recorded in Brisbane & surrounding areas. Very little or no rain was recorded in Brisbane until the weekend prior to the body being found..28th - 29th April... some residents said they recorded around 100mm.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/201204/html/IDCJDW4019.201204.shtml

Residents of nearby Wirrabara Rd said there was a torrent on Saturday, when one rain gauge recorded more than 100mm, dragging debris downstream to the Brisbane River, near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found under a bridge yesterday.

http://www.news.com.au/national/hor...ns/story-e6frfkvr-1226343136055#ixzz1wnblTXjh

 

[Mothergoose]

I sometimes get a horrible gut feeling that the police have absolutely nothing in this case. I did some searching on different stages of decomposition (sorry if I offend anyone) last night. By day ten the degree of decomposition would have been well advanced and after all the rain and the turbulence of the creek (if the body was washed downstream) I can't imagine there would have been much chance of finding any concrete evidence to link anyone to her murder.By this stage the skin would have come away from her hands (called gloving) and her fingernails would be disconnected. DNA from under her fingernails would have been non existent IMO. If you can't link someone to the body what is left ?
Affair/s, previous DV, strange behavior certainly draw suspicion but I think the time lapse between death and finding dear Allison are going to make it almost impossible to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt IMO. Anyone else have this fear?:banghead:

 

[memorandumtopartner]

is there any evidence that gerard was violent to his wife? that's a horrible thing to level at a bloke if not, imho.

 

[Toowong(s)]

Yes I agree...with all the reports about Allison, her tribute page I don't think mentioned GBC at all either. There's been virtually nothing about GBC....except for this one...

Gerard Baden-Clay's life and career built on honesty

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...built-on-honesty/story-e6freoof-1226340594889

He was cheating on his wife...honesty??..pffftt.

I am sure there was a media report that ABC was in fact aware of the affair, and that the affair was relatively public knowledge - I have searched for a link but cannot find it now sorry, perhaps someone else can dig it out of previous threads - I'm sure it was posted.

However I'm certain that it was reported that ABC was aware of the affair, which indicates (to me at least) that a mutal understanding could have been in place between ABC and GBC (and therefore indeed honesty prevailed, albeit in unusual circumstances...)

Also, I've personally not seen any media reports about "other" or "multiple" affairs. With due respect to those that are thinking along those lines, who are entitled to their opinions - as far as I can tell comments suggesting a history of multiple infidelities and also DV on this forum stem from unverifired opinion/rumour only.

Public opinion seems strongly against GBC therefore not much to be gained for his friends to come out in support. However witnesses on this site stated they had seen him at the Brookfield Show and he appeared to be consoled and supported by friends from time to time.

Incidentally, I watched the Iron Lady (Thatcher movie) on the weekend and the phrase "business as usual" was used often. When under seige by IRA bombings or other dramas, Thatcher always used the phrase it is "business as usual" in other words will not show weakness to those that seemed determined to bring us down....

Please note I am not defending/supporting GBC here - just trying to retain a balanced point of view in assessing what is known (vs rumour/opinion).

 

[Mani]

On the night of 19th it was cloudy & dark..no moon (possumheart??), very light showers were recorded in Brisbane & surrounding areas. Very little or no rain was recorded in Brisbane until the weekend prior to the body being found..28th - 29th April... some residents said they recorded around 100mm.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/201204/html/IDCJDW4019.201204.shtml

Allison may not have been in the water for the entire 11 days, Mothergoose. What if she was placed on the bank ( I hate the word 'dumped' as it appears irreverent towards a person's life that once was and has now been taken from them IMO ) and then with the rain and the rising creek, has been washed down in the current?
So she might have only been in the water for a couple of days, not the entire time. IMO

 

[Keyboredom]

...DNA from under her fingernails would have been non existent IMO. If you can't link someone to the body what is left ?
Affair/s, previous DV, strange behavior certainly draw suspicion but I think the time lapse between death and finding dear Allison are going to make it almost impossible to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt IMO. Anyone else have this fear?:banghead:

Nah, the police know who did it, they're just gathering enough evidence to make sure the charge sticks, and no doubt investigating and clearing anyone else who could be implicated before the defence tries to show locals with similar vehicles etc to the suspect/s 'might have' been responsible. There is already a high likelihood of a range of physical evidence being held in addition to anything circumstantial.

Read back on Hawkins and other's posts, if we think about the scientific and legal implications instead of the raw emotion, we can be pretty sure the person/people responsible are going to have their time in Court. There is nothing in the way the QPS are behaving that is vastly different to past investigations.

Much as we'd all like to lynch someone as soon as we have more than reasonable doubt, the police have to deal with highly qualified legal people whose sole job it will be to make sure their client is found not guilty. If Hawkins says he has faith in the current Commissioner, I have read enough of his posts to have faith too.

The :jail: will come.

 

[Mothergoose]

Hello Mothergoose & welcome...that's a good point about him possibly hiding away on 5th floor...although I'm not sure he'd have a choice about rejecting police if they paid him a visit there??

I guess you could be right but the receptionist could be instructed to say he is unavailable or out of the office etc. etc. etc. blah. blah. blah whether he was or wasn't and I don't think they could proceed to his room/office without a search warrant. He would at least give himself time to have his lawyer present. Some of these group offices with one receptionist have corridors like rabbit warrens. He could even have an escape route IMO. I think his move to this complex was well thought out given he hadn't received permission from the Franchise to make such a move. One could only conclude his motive was self preservation IMO.

 

[Mothergoose]

Nah, the police know who did it, they're just gathering enough evidence to make sure the charge sticks, and no doubt investigating and clearing anyone else who could be implicated before the defence tries to show locals with similar vehicles etc to the suspect/s 'might have' been responsible. There is already a high likelihood of a range of physical evidence being held in addition to anything circumstantial.

Read back on Hawkins and other's posts, if we think about the scientific and legal implications instead of the raw emotion, we can be pretty sure the person/people responsible are going to have their time in Court. There is nothing in the way the QPS are behaving that is vastly different to past investigations.

Much as we'd all like to lynch someone as soon as we have more than reasonable doubt, the police have to deal with highly qualified legal people whose sole job it will be to make sure their client is found not guilty. If Hawkins says he has faith in the current Commissioner, I have read enough of his posts to have faith too.

The :jail: will come.

I soooooo hope you are right !!

 

[squizzey1]

Nah, the police know who did it, they're just gathering enough evidence to make sure the charge sticks, and no doubt investigating and clearing anyone else who could be implicated before the defence tries to show locals with similar vehicles etc to the suspect/s 'might have' been responsible. There is already a high likelihood of a range of physical evidence being held in addition to anything circumstantial.

Read back on Hawkins and other's posts, if we think about the scientific and legal implications instead of the raw emotion, we can be pretty sure the person/people responsible are going to have their time in Court. There is nothing in the way the QPS are behaving that is vastly different to past investigations.

Much as we'd all like to lynch someone as soon as we have more than reasonable doubt, the police have to deal with highly qualified legal people whose sole job it will be to make sure their client is found not guilty. If Hawkins says he has faith in the current Commissioner, I have read enough of his posts to have faith too.

The :jail: will come.

I am with you there all the way. I know witnesses and they have been told alot more than the public or press, QPS just want watertight case so there is no stuff up.

 

[marlywings]

I am sure there was a media report that ABC was in fact aware of the affair, and that the affair was relatively public knowledge - I have searched for a link but cannot find it now sorry, perhaps someone else can dig it out of previous threads - I'm sure it was posted.

May 20, 2012

Gerard Baden-Clay cheated on his late wife Allison

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ate-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226361117032

 

[CJ60]

Allison may not have been in the water for the entire 11 days, Mothergoose. What if she was placed on the bank ( I hate the word 'dumped' as it appears irreverent towards a person's life that once was and has now been taken from them IMO ) and then with the rain and the rising creek, has been washed down in the current?
So she might have only been in the water for a couple of days, not the entire time. IMO

I agree, Mani. If Allison were left upstream, there was very little water around at that time; but the vegetation was quite dense. Allison could have been left near the side of the creek bed; not necessarily in the water. You only need to take a ride up there to see how easy it would be to leave Allison there, in the hope she wouldn't be found. But it rained.