Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[petedavo.au]

https://www.thoughtco.com/bleach-and-alcohol-make-chloroform-607720

Bleach + Alcohol => Chloroform

Acetone + Bleach => Chloroform


https://www.thoughtco.com/mixing-bleach-with-alcohol-or-acetone-3980642

Spooks,

Many thanks, it's hard to believe Chloroform is so easy to make.

Even made accidentally.
http://6abc.com/news/cleaning-crew-sickened-in-lower-merion/783538/

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[Canning Vale]

Canning Vale - that's another thing - the CSK wasn't so dumb as to keep driving around Bay View Tce. Putting a camera there at least made it look like the police were doing something to catch the killer. But they did nothing with what they videod. Incompetence really by someone on the case. As you say CV he would have used Stirling Highway and side streets. The whole thing isn't right and I don't know why. MOO

It’s possible to get to Stirling Hwy from Freshwater Pde. That route would bypass Stirling Hwy Claremont . That’s along Princess Rd, where another incident also occurred.

 

[petedavo.au]

Quote from 2nd link above:

"Chloroform is a central nervous system depressant. Exposure can knock you out, while high doses can lead to coma and death....
In books and movies, criminals use chloroform-soaked rags to knock out their victims. While chloroform has been used in some real-life crimes, it's actually almost impossible to knock someone out with it. About five minutes of constant inhalation are needed to cause unconsciousness."
BBM

IMO, If the real CSK used chloroform to knock out his victims, he certainly didn't incapacitate them with chloroform while sitting parked up in Claremont or on Stirling Highway! 5 minutes is an eternity while trying to evade detection.

One would also have to be confident that if administered in the confines of a vehicle cabin, that only the intended target is affected. Maybe spraying the cleaner onto a rag or inside of a particle mask would concentrate the dose, and prevent himself from being affected. But how would he know how much would work without testing it?

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[Innerchild]

I have been reading several West Australians shortly after Ciara went missing. I can't quote them directly because I don't have a copy of the article or a link to them. They are a text source via the NLA. There were a few things at the time like a Re-enactment video done shortly after Ciara went missing. This is also quoted below. I have attempted to look for it online as it was shown on the TV on 23 March 1997 but to no luck.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2007/s2089795.htm
"(Excerpt from "Australian Story" - February 2004)
SUPERINTENDENT DAVID CAPORN, HEAD MACRO TASK FORCE: I think one of the very tangible ways that this crime could be solved is in the tracing of the particularly significant items of jewellery that are missing in relation to this case.
POLICE RE-ENACTMENT VIDEO – 1997: Ciara has a silver watch and silver earrings - two in the left ear, one in the right - and had a distinctive Claddagh brooch pinned to her jacket.
(End of excerpt)"

She wasn't seen leaving the Continental but she was witnessed walking pass Cafe Belissimo which I believe was from a friend. The friends arrived in Claremont 11.30pm, Ciara left 11.55pm but there was some time in there where her friends didn't know where she was. It is possible she met the allegedly accused there and when she left he grabbed his car and left catching up with her on Stirling Highway.

I find it interesting that when I tried to find this 2004 Australian Story episode "He who waits"on a link to the media thread here, on the abc webites but it seems to have disappeared. It is either replaced by a transcript or another Australian Story episode. He who Waits had a picture of JC's car retrieved on the beach which was why I wanted to have a look. So, what did this vision have (He Who Waits), that has made it disappear?

The Conti had cctv when JR disappeared so it's unusual that they didn't release any for CG. It would have been embarrassing for WAPOL if the same two cops on the JR cctv were seen in the Conti the night CG disappeared!

Peter Waygers actively campaigned against having cctv. Cops secret cctv was on Stirling Hwy, not Bay View Tce.

Cops denied they hadn't checked the cars, but probably didn't check all of them until the article accusing them came out. It's possible that the accused arrived in Claremont earlier and parked, so wouldn't have been on the footage around the time CG disappeared.

It is possible she met the accused at the Conti, and he arranged to give her a lift meeting her on Stirling Hwy, but I think they would have been all over that from reports from friends or other witnesses or cctv. Unless, she was talking to cops.

If he was watching from pub he could have easily left after her going down Bay View and into the laneway behind 322 Stirling Hwy. He could have used his car parked there or ran along the lane way to come out near where CG was last seen.

Frankie and hi friends were adamant the CSI documentary got it wrong hen it showed her leaning over talking to someone in a car. Frankie's friend only saw a ford car (maybe station wagon) slow down and he identified the make of the car by the shape of the brake lights but it didn't stop, as he reported in websleuths. JMHO.

 

[Canning Vale]

One would also have to be confident that if administered in the confines of a vehicle cabin, that only the intended target is affected. Maybe spraying the cleaner onto a rag or inside of a particle mask would concentrate the dose, and prevent himself from being affected. But how would he know how much would work without testing it?

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There was a movie where the killer administered himself, timed how long he was asleep. It's called the Vanishing with Jeff Bridges, Sandra Bullock and Keiffer Sutherland. Jeff Bridges knocks himself out to see how long he'd sleep. It came out in 1993.

 

[Pandit]

It’s possible to get to Stirling Hwy from Freshwater Pde. That route would bypass Stirling Hwy Claremont . That’s along Princess Rd, where another incident also occurred.

What was this other incident along Princess Road CV? Do you have any more details?

If he used that route, it assumes I think Ciara was attacked by blitz around the corner of Freshwater Parade parking his car close behind Stirling Highway then exiting by Princess Road avoiding the highway altogether after crossing it on at least one, probably two or three times previously specifically looking for girls to target. Do you think this indicates he's aware there are cameras along the highway?

I wonder how long he had to wait for the right moment when the coast was clear and for the right lone girl to cross his path.

 

[Innerchild]

Does anyone recall any mention of a Rockingham taxi on the night JR was taken

Any reason for asking? I've not heard of a Rockingham taxi, but it looked like a taxi pulled up outside Conti at 00.03.15 (3 min and 15 sec after midnight). Three people who had just came out of Conti went to kerb and male put his hand out in headlights as if to stop a taxi. They got turned away and looked like Jane may have bent over to talk to occupants. She came back to stand by pole until she disappeared from cctv after 00.04.33.

What do you suspect about a Rockingham taxi?

 

[Innerchild]

Bruce Morecomb had started pushing for an Inquest into the death of Gerard Ross in 2016 after the inquest into the death of Daniel had made a breakthrough in finding his remains. An inquest could throw up for example inadequacy's that some people want to stay hidden. So the next best thing is to divert the community's interest to a 'thorough' cold case review.

Credit where credit is due. The WAPOL effort in the sting to catch Brett Cowan was outstanding!

I keep waiting to see if they have done something here and someone turns up to give evidence or something?? All just my opinion.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...r/news-story/6a8f79430864d64989d3b7a6fce4b951

 

[Pandit]

I find it interesting that when I tried to find this 2004 Australian Story episode "He who waits"on a link to the media thread here, on the abc webites but it seems to have disappeared. It is either replaced by a transcript or another Australian Story episode. He who Waits had a picture of JC's car retrieved on the beach which was why I wanted to have a look. So, what did this vision have (He Who Waits), that has made it disappear?

The Conti had cctv when JR disappeared so it's unusual that they didn't release any for CG. It would have been embarrassing for WAPOL if the same two cops on the JR cctv were seen in the Conti the night CG disappeared!

Peter Waygers actively campaigned against having cctv. Cops secret cctv was on Stirling Hwy, not Bay View Tce.

Cops denied they hadn't checked the cars, but probably didn't check all of them until the article accusing them came out. It's possible that the accused arrived in Claremont earlier and parked, so wouldn't have been on the footage around the time CG disappeared.

It is possible she met the accused at the Conti, and he arranged to give her a lift meeting her on Stirling Hwy, but I think they would have been all over that from reports from friends or other witnesses or cctv. Unless, she was talking to cops.

If he was watching from pub he could have easily left after her going down Bay View and into the laneway behind 322 Stirling Hwy. He could have used his car parked there or ran along the lane way to come out near where CG was last seen.

Frankie and hi friends were adamant the CSI documentary got it wrong hen it showed her leaning over talking to someone in a car. Frankie's friend only saw a ford car (maybe station wagon) slow down and he identified the make of the car by the shape of the brake lights but it didn't stop, as he reported in websleuths. JMHO.

Hi IC. Apologies, I must have missed this. There were two cops identified on the JR cctv from the Conti? Were they from the old Claremont Police Station per chance, uniformed members or detectives do we know?

:thinking:

 

[Canning Vale]

What was this other incident along Princess Road CV? Do you have any more details?

If he used that route, it assumes I think Ciara was attacked by blitz around the corner of Freshwater Parade parking his car close behind Stirling Highway then exiting by Princess Road avoiding the highway altogether after crossing it on at least one, probably two or three times previously specifically looking for girls to target. Do you think this indicates he's aware there are cameras along the highway?

I wonder how long he had to wait for the right moment when the coast was clear and for the right lone girl to cross his path.

The Princess Rd incident has been discussed before. During Oct 1994 a 31-year-old woman leapt from speeding taxi after driver and another man tried to attack her. She broke her ankle.
That’s four months before the KK rape. Article listed on Missing and Murdered: mandm

Maybe the CSK weaved around the backstreets, in search of a victim. Could it be possible he drove along Princess Rd to avoid the police station? I'll have another good look at that vicinity.

 

[WhyWhy]

The backroads along Princess to avoid cameras or cops, though not the Claremont 'cop shop'. Do love the concrete brise Soleil blocks, but visibility out from the station would hardly have been feared. Ie planting?(hibiscus or poinsettia?) and conc screen that obscures the road from interior, esp at night. (IMO)


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[Innerchild]

Hi IC. Apologies, I must have missed this. There were two cops identified on the JR cctv from the Conti? Were they from the old Claremont Police Station per chance, uniformed members or detectives do we know?

:thinking:

Another poster was keen on looking at a man they called red dot man (RDM). He comes out of Conti at 23.58.25 (although this could be 23.53.23??). He walks past Jane at pole. She steps back and looks directly at him. His face is blocked. He walks out with a very tall friend and girl who walk away down Bay View. He has something like a beeper attached to belt on back.

All images my copy from Crime Scene Investigation Hunt for Killer Claremont SK, Haley Jane version.

Can't tell too much from that vision. If it was 23.53, it is only 12 minutes since Jane exited Conti in first vision.

Extra images from flec version show possible RDM poking head out at 02.22 and poleman going over to him and Jane also smiling and taking a couple of steps towards him.going over towards him.

At 03.18 RDM exits with his tall friend and they walk away from Jane. They both are very tall, when they pass bouncer RDM, the shorter of the two is well above the bouncers height.

It wasn't until I'd looked at all the flec vision and correlated the still images from it in time order with the normal vision, that I realised that these two fitted a description given by two girls being given a lift and lucky to escape by two "cops" that was reported in Post from around 1999.

Are these the two cops? It's my opinion they are or at least they are the same men that were described in the later incident. Other than RDM coming out originally at 23.58, and popping his head out at 2.29 am there seemed to be no contact with Jane. Just saying IMO they were there. If these two tall and very tall men were also at the Conti the night CG disappeared it wold be embarrassing wouldn't it?

[video=youtube;hbbg-FVij4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c[/video]

 

[Innerchild]

All vision from extra frames, flec version, CSI_Hunt for a Killer_claremont

Tall guy and taller guy exiting Conti from 03.18 (not shown). Time stamp has been blurred but can make out time in sequence from 00.03.20am (hour.min.sec)

Interesting that you see the girl in the long skirt walking back to the footpath after trying to get the taxi. The vision from this camera has no 30 second delay. It follows straight on from the other camera showing the long skirt girl and other two try to hail a taxi. All my opinion only.

[video=youtube;hbbg-FVij4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbbg-FVij4c[/video]

 

[Canning Vale]

What was this other incident along Princess Road CV? Do you have any more details?

If he used that route, it assumes I think Ciara was attacked by blitz around the corner of Freshwater Parade parking his car close behind Stirling Highway then exiting by Princess Road avoiding the highway altogether after crossing it on at least one, probably two or three times previously specifically looking for girls to target. Do you think this indicates he's aware there are cameras along the highway?

I wonder how long he had to wait for the right moment when the coast was clear and for the right lone girl to cross his path.

Perhaps the CSK spent much time, waiting for his idea of a perfect victim to be alone. A predator always isolates its prey. I suppose, weaving his way, amongst the back streets thus progressing along the Stirling Hwy.
Regarding the CG abduction… Perhaps it’s possible the CSK spotted CG walking along the Stirling Hwy, and from Freshwater Bay Rd, turned left onto the Stirling Hwy, then overtook CG and waited at the Anglican Church - SE corner of Queenslea Dr.

Perhaps CG was abducted from the Stirling Hwy side of the Church, and then driven south along Queenslea Dr, into Princess Rd, through to Hackett Dr, then on to Mounts Bay Rd. That route completely bypasses Claremont’s main part of Stirling Hwy.

Note: Mounts Bay Rd has easy access to Kings Park.

https://www.google.com.au/maps

I'm not sure if he knew the camera was there. These are only my thoughts and opinions.

 

[Pandit]

The backroads along Princess to avoid cameras or cops, though not the Claremont 'cop shop'. Do love the concrete brise Soleil blocks, but visibility out from the station would hardly have been feared. Ie planting?(hibiscus or poinsettia?) and conc screen that obscures the road from interior, esp at night. (IMO)


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Scraggly poinsettia I think. I'm envisioning a camera though WhyWhy, they had a lockup at the back there and to be sure the electronic gadgetry in CCTV necessary for even the most rudimentary of police stations. Perfect positioning at the lights on Stirling Highway and looking straight up Leura Avenue. There were also detectives working out of there.

Little bit of extra wiring, turn one cam around and jam one on the traffic lights, camera, action off ya go. Would have cost them virtually nothing to do it from there. Shoulda coulda woulda got him.

 

[Pandit]

Perhaps the CSK spent much time, waiting for his idea of a perfect victim to be alone. A predator always isolates its prey. I suppose, weaving his way, amongst the back streets thus progressing along the Stirling Hwy.
Regarding the CG abduction… Perhaps it’s possible the CSK spotted CG walking along the Stirling Hwy, and from Freshwater Bay Rd, turned left onto the Stirling Hwy, then overtook CG and waited at the Anglican Church - SE corner of Queenslea Dr.

Perhaps CG was abducted from the Stirling Hwy side of the Church, and then driven south along Queenslea Dr, into Princess Rd, through to Hackett Dr, then on to Mounts Bay Rd. That route completely bypasses Claremont’s main part of Stirling Hwy.

Note: Mounts Bay Rd has easy access to Kings Park.

https://www.google.com.au/maps

I'm not sure if he knew the camera was there. These are only my thoughts and opinions.

There was nine months iirc between Jane and Ciara going missing so it did seem take him a while and in that time he's adapted, changed his routine to staying off the Stirling Highway altogether.... ? If he spoke to Ciara (rather than a sudden attack and abduction) somehow tricking her into walking to his car behind the highway and the route out was Princess Road, she'd have known pretty much within a minute or so he was going the wrong way and she was in trouble.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Hi IC. Apologies, I must have missed this. There were two cops identified on the JR cctv from the Conti? Were they from the old Claremont Police Station per chance, uniformed members or detectives do we know?

:thinking:

I had same thought.
IC which people were cops on JR's CCTV video?


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

For those of you who think CG met the accused in the Conti, then while he went to get his car, CG said I'll meet you up the highway, and off she went walking up the highway - WHERE has your common sense gone?
How many times have you met a friend out somewhere and NOT left together and walked together to their car, if meeting up was the plan???



............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

 

[Spinnaker]

Post article - December 22, 2015 - could potentially have been the CSK and a tactic used to lure a female into car.

 

[Spinnaker]

Post article - December 22, 2015 - could potentially have been the CSK and a tactic used to lure a female into car.

Note the mention of the type of car in above article from post December 2015 - pre BRE arrest.

"He said he had lost them (keys) down the back of the drivers seat of his car, a white Holden Commodore".


The accused also drove a white Holden Commodore - see link below.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...e-seize-holden-commodore-20170107-gtngzj.html


Small snippet on article above highlighted in black also mentions the below:

"The POST has revealed that Police have established that the killer on occasions drove a white Holden VS Series 1 Commodore, probably a station wagon".


All of the above to consider IMO.